Ford keeping V8's to 2040!!

[Cardinal Carminative]

Every patent I have had to comply with required a royalty payment for the use of that technology.

You were LICENSING it from someone. That's the royalty payment.

That's also why companies get IP in the first place so they don't have to license everything they do from someone else.

In industry patents are NOT all universally licensed. They are often held as a matter of "Freedom to Operate" or as a defensive position against a competitor.

This is why it is historically difficult to give a proper valuation on IP. There books upon books written about this topic and the difficulty it carries.

Licensing is not the main business model for every company.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Thus proving my earlier point that it's not a core business for most businesses.

Oh believe me IP IS a core tenant of these industries. Even if they don't license. IP is still king.

Licensing is NOT the only use of IP. Not even close. As I noted I work in an industry that is MASSIVELY covered by IP yet our licensing is only a small fraction. The IP has value apart from royalties.

Hence our desire to get the technology to market so we could use it rather than trying to make money off of it. A point you argued against.

And you open the door to someone coming along and using your technology without the added cost of having to develop it. That puts them ahead of you. That's really bad business on your company's part.

 

[ding]

Not really. Besides, why would you want to? It's not like YOU are going to have the cash to fund a patent filing and prosecution and if you are working full time you don't have the time to go out and license the IP or utilize it to your economic benefit.

Besides, the "negotiation" for that is you say you don't want to assign your IP to the company. The company says "OK, you don't have a job with us." It's pretty much that simple.

Yes, really. I know people in service companies that have done it. Again... everything is negotiable. To argue against that point is idiotic.

20% though? Year after year? Yeah, that's the bit that sounds super-sketchy. Especially given that about every 5-10 years most of your teammates get laid off with swings in the industry.

20% to 30% every year. The big RIFs were 1984 to 1990. There wasn't another one until 2020. So, no, most of my teammates did not get l;aid off every 5 to 10 years. Again... I don't believe the oil and gas industry is the only industry that pays annual bonuses. I believe it is quite common for people who are professionals (i.e. white collared).

Do they just underpay you and try to make up in bonuses? Those numbers are wacky.

Don't be silly. Oil and Gas is among the highest paying industries. For engineers leaving university it is the highest paying industry and not by just a little. Starting salaries were 90 grand for college graduates. Senior engineers make 250 grand. Neither of those numbers include the annual bonus, 401k match, pension contributions and insurance benefits. People who work for small to mid size companies get an even larger bonus than 20 to 30%. When I retired my pension (which I never put a dime of my money into) was 2 million.

Probably because they are heavily subsidized by folks like me and the other tax payers.

You're welcome.

Incorrect. It's because we provided a valuable product and generated enormous sums of profits with high rate of returns on the investment.

 

[ding]

You were LICENSING it from someone. That's the royalty payment.

That's also why companies get IP in the first place so they don't have to license everything they do from someone else.

In industry patents are NOT all universally licensed. They are often held as a matter of "Freedom to Operate" or as a defensive position against a competitor.

This is why it is historically difficult to give a proper valuation on IP. There books upon books written about this topic and the difficulty it carries.

Licensing is not the main business model for every company.

Again... it was not part of our core business. The value in using the technology dwarfed the cost of paying royalties for using the technology.

 

[ding]

Oh believe me IP IS a core tenant of these industries. Even if they don't license. IP is still king.

Licensing is NOT the only use of IP. Not even close. As I noted I work in an industry that is MASSIVELY covered by IP yet our licensing is only a small fraction. The IP has value apart from royalties.

Not for the oil and gas industry which makes huge profits from its core business which is selling oil and gas.

And you open the door to someone coming along and using your technology without the added cost of having to develop it. That puts them ahead of you. That's really bad business on your company's part.

We didn't develop it. The service company developed it. We partnered with them in their development so that we could get the product we wanted.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Again... it was not part of our core business.

As I said it is not uncommon for the legal group to pass on filing for that reason. But I rather assume there must have been SOME part of your work that was valuable enough to protect for the company.

The value in using the technology dwarfed the cost of paying royalties for using the technology.

That makes sense. Especially if it's just stuff that's really common.

I was thinking more in terms of folks who do actual R&D and develop valuable inventions. That was clearly not your company (or maybe your team).

 

[ding]

Wow. Congrats? I'm impressed. Of course it isn't necessarily true but congrats.

And what does that have to do with getting patents?



Don't understand patent law? Too bad.

Of course it's true. Why would I lie. I retired at 60. I never have to work again.

It doesn't have anything to do with patents. It has to do with your bragging that you got a bonus for your patents. Big whoop. Your company made all the money off of your patents and threw you a small bone. I got 20 to 30% bonuses every year for doing my job.

What do I need to understand about patent law to know you did a piss poor job of negotiating with your company how you would be paid off of your patents. Is there some law that said you couldn't negotiate a royalty from licensing the technology? No. There's not.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Not for the oil and gas industry which makes huge profits from its core business which is selling oil and gas.

If you don't develop anything of value and just drill and pump, that's fine. But that isn't the oil and gas industry. I mean Schlumberger has north of 62,000 patents (spread over 17,000 patent families).

We didn't develop it. The service company developed it.

Remember, I'm talking about people who do actual R&D and develop stuff. That was clearly not your job in the company.

We partnered with them in their development so that we could get the product we wanted.

If you partenered with them and you were involved in the invention as an actual "Inventor" it wouldn't matter. You would be on the patent. If one leaves a valid inventor off a US patent it can be challenged and invalidated. (problems in inventorship can be fixed through other means, but it can put the patent at risk).

That is why the legal department at your company probably developed a rather detailed JOINT DEVELOPMENT CONTRACT to ensure you preserved your IP rights and they preserved theirs.

No one was leaving any IP on the table whether you knew about it or not.

 

[ding]

As I said it is not uncommon for the legal group to pass on filing for that reason. But I rather assume there must have been SOME part of your work that was valuable enough to protect for the company.

We developed multi-billion dollar oil and gas fields. Using technology that either increased productivity or reduced costs or improved reliability was where the value was at for us.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Of course it's true. Why would I lie.

Well, it seems to be your thing.

It doesn't have anything to do with patents. It has to do with your bragging that you got a bonus for your patents.

IT's not a brag. YOU were the one who bragged about his GIANT income and giant tax bill. LOL.

Big whoop. Your company made all the money off of your patents and threw you a small bone. I got 20 to 30% bonuses every year for doing my job.

Well, that and you probably didn't develop anything worth protecting.

What do I need to understand about patent law to know you did a piss poor job of negotiating with your company

Why is it a poor job of negotiation? I am NOT going to pony up $10,000-$15,000 to prosecute a patent based on work I did at my job. That's absurd.

how you would be paid off of your patents. Is there some law that said you couldn't negotiate a royalty from licensing the technology? No. There's not.

LOL. You have a child's view of how IP works in industry. That's probably fair, you don't seem to know much about your industry. Don't know what formations you drilled into, don't know how IP works, then you make up giant numbers for bonuses and how rich you are.

Stop bragging. No one believes you.

 

[ding]

If you don't develop anything of value and just drill and pump, that's fine. But that isn't the oil and gas industry. I mean Schlumberger has north of 62,000 patents (spread over 17,000 patent families).

We developed multi-billion dollar oil and gas fields. IP rights were nothing by comparison. We were driven by productivity improvements, cost reduction improvements and reliability improvements. That's where the value was and that was our core business.

Remember, I'm talking about people who do actual R&D and develop stuff. That was clearly not your job in the company.

Which was my job for about 4 years.

If you partenered with them and you were involved in the invention as an actual "Inventor" it wouldn't matter. You would be on the patent. If one leaves a valid inventor off a US patent it can be challenged and invalidated. (problems in inventorship can be fixed through other means, but it can put the patent at risk).

That is why the legal department at your company probably developed a rather detailed JOINT DEVELOPMENT CONTRACT to ensure you preserved your IP rights and they preserved theirs.

No one was leaving any IP on the table whether you knew about it or not.

You really aren't getting this, are you?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

We developed multi-billion dollar oil and gas fields. Using technology that either increased productivity or reduced costs or improved reliability was where the value was at for us.

And if it was truly actually valuable someone could come along and take that technology and beat you guys six ways to Sunday. R&D costs money. That's why REAL companies (not the imaginary company you worked for) actually pursue IP. So they can protect their investment.

LOL

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

We developed multi-billion dollar oil and gas fields. IP rights were nothing by comparison. We were driven by productivity improvements, cost reduction improvements and reliability improvements. That's where the value was and that was our core business.

Yeah, we've established your company didn't invent anything new. Just used old tech they licensed from other people.

You really aren't getting this, are you?

I am seeing how little you know about IP. You think it's all "royalties" and "licenses". That's hilariously naive.

 

[ding]

Well, it seems to be your thing.

Whereas I believe it's the other way around and our little conversation has proven it.

IT's not a brag. YOU were the one who bragged about his GIANT income and giant tax bill. LOL.

Incorrect. It started in post #167 where you said...

Well, I get paid well and I still got patents for my work. Since I work in industry I actually get a bonus for each patent that gets granted.

Well, that and you probably didn't develop anything worth protecting.

I couldn't be happier for you to believe that.

Why is it a poor job of negotiation? I am NOT going to pony up $10,000-$15,000 to prosecute a patent based on work I did at my job. That's absurd.

Because the company got all of the licensing fees for the life of the patent and you got a one time bonus. That's why it's a poor job of negotiating on your behalf.

LOL. You have a child's view of how IP works in industry. That's probably fair, you don't seem to know much about your industry. Don't know what formations you drilled into, don't know how IP works, then you make up giant numbers for bonuses and how rich you are.

Stop bragging. No one believes you.

I'm happy enough for others to decide which one of us is the most credible.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

We developed multi-billion dollar oil and gas fields. IP rights were nothing by comparison.

Royal Dutch Shell (you might have actually heard of them) appear to have about 115,000 patents spread over 35,500 patent families. BP appears to have about 1,000 patents.

Seems like maybe your team at Big Bob's Discount Petroleum Drillernators didn't get the memo.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

I couldn't be happier for you to believe that.

You and I both know the truth, though, don't we?

Because the company got all of the licensing fees for the life of the patent and you got a one time bonus.

99% of my patents weren't LICENSED. How do I get that point across to you? Why do you focus so much on licensing? Do you honestly think all patents are only valuable if you license them????

Wow. You know next to NOTHING about business strategy. Yikes! (I can see why you make up so many fantastic stories about your giant pay and your giant bonuses!)

I'm happy enough for others to decide which one of us is the most credible.

I'm sure your usual basket of deplorable sycophants will jump right on the bandwagon and pat you on the back.

LOL.

 

[ding]

And if it was truly actually valuable someone could come along and take that technology and beat you guys six ways to Sunday. R&D costs money. That's why REAL companies (not the imaginary company you worked for) actually pursue IP. So they can protect their investment.

LOL

You do realize that the leases are owned by the operating company, right? How is someone going to steal that? Again... we developed multi-billion dollar fields. That was the core business. Being more productive or developing it for lower costs or improving reliability of wells is an optimization that rarely requires us to pay any licensing fees. I only know of two instances where we had to pay licensing fees. One of which we defeated by using a competing technology and the other was rarely used in GoM.

 

[ding]

Royal Dutch Shell (you might have actually heard of them) appear to have about 115,000 patents spread over 35,500 patent families. BP appears to have about 1,000 patents.

Seems like maybe your team at Big Bob's Discount Petroleum Drillernators didn't get the memo.

And what percentage of their net income is from IP?

 

[ding]

You and I both know the truth, though, don't we?

By now I'm sure everyone knows the truth, dear.

99% of my patents weren't LICENSED. How do I get that point across to you? Why do you focus so much on licensing? Do you honestly think all patents are only valuable if you license them????

And you received zero royalties or licensing fees for the ones that did, right? That's a crappy job on your part in negotiating.

Wow. You know next to NOTHING about business strategy. Yikes! (I can see why you make up so many fantastic stories about your giant pay and your giant bonuses!)

I know enough to know you did a piss poor job in negotiating a percentage of the licensing fees.

I'm sure your usual basket of deplorable sycophants will jump right on the bandwagon and pat you on the back.

LOL.

Whereas I believe anyone reading this conversation is going to see you as overly emotional because you can't get your way.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

You do realize that the leases are owned by the operating company, right? How is someone going to steal that?

We're talking IP right now.

If you developed something of value to be used in the oil field and you didn't get any IP on it (no patents) then you ran the risk that someone could easily steal that technology.

Again... we developed multi-billion dollar fields. That was the core business

As I said, it is clearly you didn't develop any technology of value or you would have gotten IP on it (unless you were a horribly run business)