Forced sterilization?

[Katzndogz]

What is extremely disabled? After all leave matters of life and death to the government and it will define extremely disabled however it wishes. Object, and that's proof that you're incompetent to make that decision and NEED the government to make it for you.

 

[there4eyeM]

Consider a six-year-old having a child. Six year olds don't have any legal choice. Adults instinctively protect them and make choices for them, especially the hard ones.

 

[AmyNation]

The woman was raped, repeatedly. Children can't consent to sex, and someone with the mind of a 6 year old cant consent to sex.

 

[Polk]

What the proponents of universal birth control don't realize is that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Which means, that if there is universal birth control there must also be forced pregnancies. The culture will still need workers. There will have to be a mechanism to produce those workers. There will still have to be a way of forcing those with superior genetic material to reproduce when they choose not to. Removing freedom from people never has the result of more freedom. In Thomas More's Utopia the solution was to kidnap people from surrounding city-states and conscript them into service to the superior Utopians.

Forced pregnancies when our population stands at 7 billion and rising? You must be joking...

You're missing something here -- something really BIG: we are currently experiencing worldwide unemployment, and it's going to get worse over the next few decades. You don't have to be an economist to see that.

Computers and robots are replacing human workers in every sector of the economy. Bookkeepers and accountants are being replaced by programs like Quicken; calculations that used to require ten engineers with slide rules a week to perform and check now take one computer microseconds or less; ATMs have replaced 95% of the bank tellers and bank managers; supermarkets are replacing human checkers with self-checking; and the automotive industry has replaced nearly all of its highly-paid, unionized workers with robotics. Farm communities are dying out because in the place of ten large farms that might have employed 20 hands each, we now have one mega-farm that only employs a few people to supervise the automated plowing, planting, irrigation, and harvesting systems.

The preceding is only a partial list of the jobs that are vanishing due to automation, computers, and robotics. Anyone reading it can easily think of dozens more examples.

The fact is, we don't need more unskilled workers. Over the coming decades, we will need fewer and fewer workers of any kind.

-- Paravani

I'm very happy to see someone approach this question from the technology angle.

 

[Noomi]

In accordance with this discussion. The forced abortion.

Court May Force Mentally Disabled Nevada Woman to Have Abortion | LifeNews.com

With obvious public outcries against forced abortions in China and forced sterilizations of mentally handicapped individuals in Nazi Germany, one might assume the United States knows better.

However, today, in Nevada, the life of an 11-week-old unborn baby and the future of his or her 32-year-old mother hang in the balance as a judge considers whether or not to order the woman to undergo an abortion and sterilization against her will.

Elisa Bauer, who suffers from severe mental and physical disabilities attributed to fetal alcohol syndrome, is currently in the final weeks of her first trimester. The second-oldest of six children adopted by William and Amy Bauer in 1992, Elisa has epilepsy and is said to have the mental and social capacity of a 6-year-old.

This should horrify anyone. The disabled woman, Elisa, HAS responsible guardians to make these decisions. The State doesn't agree with the guardians, whose decision should be final. It's cases like this that fundamentally changes the relationship between the government and the citizens.

Sounds like her adoptive parents are incompetent. I hope the court is looking into revoking their rights.

Her adoptive parents can't make a rational decision. They are Catholics, meaning they refuse to consider any other option besides birth.

Her parents failed in allowing a mentally ill woman to go out alone and have sex with strange men.

 

[AmyNation]

I disagree that being Catholic means you lose perspective, especially when your child's life may be on the line.

However they knew she was slipping out of the group home and having sex with strange men at a local truck stop. So yes, I think an investigation into possible neglect by the group home and her parents are in order.

 

[Noomi]

I disagree that being Catholic means you lose perspective, especially when your child's life may be on the line.

However they knew she was slipping out of the group home and having sex with strange men at a local truck stop. So yes, I think an investigation into possible neglect by the group home and her parents are in order.

Her parents have cited their religious beliefs and stated that because of these beliefs, they want the baby to be born. Notice that they believe that their religious beliefs should dictate what happens?
The woman's life is at risk, as is the life of the fetus, yet they want her to have a baby. They are putting the woman's life second to a fetus!

 

[AmyNation]

The debate in the court is whether the preganacy will bring undue risk to the woman. It has not been proven either way.

 

[Immanuel]

I am not in support of sterilising poor people or illiterate people. But those people who need care, and cannot even live by themselves, pay their own bills, cook their own dinner, should not be having babies, and nor should they be allowed to keep them.

Because you are unable to care for yourself, how in the world can you look after a baby?

You may not be in support of it, but once you begin to allow forced sterilization on handicapped individuals someone else will begin promoting forced sterilization of the poor (aka welfare moms) and from their it will build, before long it will be people of a certain race.

I will present an example. President Bush gave us the unPatriot Act which was followed by President Obama's killing of an American al-Qaeda (al-Awlaki?) member without even so much as a pretend trial. Then the NDAA came along and they wanted permission to imprison Americans indefinitely without the right to a trial.

What is next?

No, we should not be forcing sterilization on anyone.

Immie

 

[AmyNation]

I rarely buy into the slippery slope argument.

I think you can say "the state has the right to sterilize those who have been found incompetent and who the state is their legal guardian" without it leading to mass forced sterilization of the lower class.

 

[Katzndogz]

Ohhhhh, Simply being a Catholic is evidence of incompetency! That's the way liberals think. Of course.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I'm fully aware of the clean debate zone guidelines so it is difficult for me to express how truly repugnant I find it that people are even discussing this.

I think these arguments were probably thoroughly examined in the beer gardens of Berlin and Munich circa 1930s.

 

[AmyNation]

Your disgust is noted.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Your disgust is noted.

you mean it didn't change your mind ?????

 

[AmyNation]

Lol

This thread has been very interesting, I've found myself agreeing and disagreeing with most of the main posters. While it has given me pause, I still find myself where I was when I started, which is the state should move to sterilize the couple I mentioned in my OP.

 

[Katzndogz]

If the couple are wards of the state, there is nothing prohibiting the state from having both of them sterilized if the state so wishes.

 

[AmyNation]

If the couple are wards of the state, there is nothing prohibiting the state from having both of them sterilized if the state so wishes.

I believe they are, and I'm aware of that. However I think, as has been shown in this thread, the issue of sterilization is a highly charged one, and so the state hasn't acted, when they should.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I understand the "wards of the state" argument and it does make sense. But it's like you kicked over a rock with lots of ugly things down there that I really don't want to look at.
Gee thanks.

 

[Immanuel]

Lol

This thread has been very interesting, I've found myself agreeing and disagreeing with most of the main posters. While it has given me pause, I still find myself where I was when I started, which is the state should move to sterilize the couple I mentioned in my OP.

Today, this couple. Tomorrow it could be someone you love. I oppose government agents making such decisions. We cannot trust them with our tax dollars. How on earth can we trust them with our health?

Immie

 

[AmyNation]

Guardians should be allowed to make that decision, and where the state is the guardian, they should make that decision.