Zone1 For Christians who believe in Darwinian evolution, question

[Donald H]

Already did. Several times. But your religion is making you reject science.

The Big Bang | Exploratorium

www.exploratorium.edu

The Beginning of the Universe | Alexander Vilenkin | Inference

Despite the perplexing questions associated with the universe having a beginning, the BGV theorem shows it must have had one. Alexander Vilenkin describes the theory of quantum creation, and why it means that the universe both could have a beginning and be uncaused.

inference-review.com

What Happened Before the Big Bang?

An exploration with a mathematician about what precedes the Big Bang

now.tufts.edu

Borde–Guth–Vilenkin theorem - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Early Universe

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.1207.pdf

What is the cosmic microwave background?

The cosmic microwave background can help scientists piece together the history of the universe.

www.space.com

When was the first light in the universe?

The speed of light gives us an amazing tool for studying the universe. Because light only travels a mere 300,000 kilometers per second, when we see distant objects, we're looking back in time.

phys.org

Redshift - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do any of those links contain claims by mainstream science that the god played a part?

And I have told you that there are alternative theories. None of which requires your favoured god to play a part.

 

[Donald H]

The universe beginning is based upon red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations. You reject mainstream science because of your religion.

I'm an atheist and I have no religion by definition. The Big Bang is a theory, among others including the 'multiverse' which you said you subscribe to. I prefer the theory that there was no beginning but there was a Big Bang. I thing that's the theory that you're adopted, but haven't considered completely enough so far.

 

[Donald H]

The universe beginning is based upon red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations. You reject mainstream science because of your religion.

And furthermore, you're 'sort of forced to believe there was no beginning aren't you?

He created a universe that has no beginning and no end (Genesis 1:1).

Yes, I know you haven't yet defined that as being literal or just more of the rhetoric.

Could you clarify that one?

 

[Donald H]

You don't have a clue what you are talking about. Atheists have always been uncomfortable with the universe beginning. You are no exception. It's funny how you are grasping for straws denying mainstream science.

Where have I ever denied mainstream science.

Are you denying that Genesis must be taken literally?

He created a universe that has no beginning and no end (Genesis 1:1).

 

[surada]

The account of the Tower of Babel is the allegorical account of migration from Mesopotamia which (egad) was an actual historical event.

And, there are towers all over the Middle East.

 

[Donald H]

And, there are towers all over the Middle East.

A fair answer considering that Ding has yet to state whether or not the Babel tower is to be taken literally. In this instance he seems to be combining literally true events with rhetorical embellishments. We can't allow him to do that!

His reference to that tower can only be 'some' tower in a generic sense.

 

[surada]

A fair answer considering that Ding has yet to state whether or not the Babel tower is to be taken literally. In this instance he seems to be combining literally true events with rhetorical embellishments. We can't allow him to do that!

His reference to that tower can only be 'some' tower in a generic sense.

There are still ancient ziggurats in the Middle East. Most scholars think the Tower of Babel is about the collapse of a civilization and literacy.

Meanwhile, the myths from Sumer and the Akkadians are older than Genesis.

Gilgamesh and Genesis: The Same Story Written Twice? — Role Model Change Makers

Eli Baggott The two most pervasive and influential texts written in human history happen to have the same beginnings. Gilgamesh is an epic poem first inscribed on clay tablets by the ancient Sumerians between two and three thousand BC, translated into english many different times, including recentl

www.rolemodelchangemakers.com

 

[Donald H]

There are still ancient ziggurats in the Middle East. Most scholars think the Tower of Babel is about the collapse of a civilization and literacy.

I make no assumptions on what Ding will claim to be the literal truth from his bibles.

If Genesis is not to be taken literally by the Roman Catholics, what is the basis of the original sin?

According to this answer, Genesis is not to be taken literally by the Roman Catholic church due to the scientific evidence contradicting it. In this view, what is the basis of the original sin?

christianity.stackexchange.com

Genesis is not to be taken literally by Catholics!

 

[surada]

I make no assumptions on what Ding will claim to be the literal truth from his bibles.

Obviously I don't think the scriptures should be taken literally. I also think it's a mistake to fiddle with scripture even if you don't understand it.

 

[Donald H]

Obviously I don't think the scriptures should be taken literally. I also think it's a mistake to fiddle with scripture even if you don't understand it.

You're making a blanket statement on scripture not to be taken literally.

Ding isn't of that opinion yet, but could have modified his beliefs in the last 12 hours.

 

[ding]

I've essentially agreed that it has to be examined chapter by chapter, verse by verse, and line by line. No claims can be made of anything being literally true until.

It's your claim that parts of your bibles are illiteral rhetoric and I haven't disagreed. Do we disagree on anything written in the bibles specifically? We certainly didn't disagree on the 'big fish' story!

No. That's not my claim. That's your claim. And it is a perfect example of why we can never agree on this subject... you can't properly state what I stated. And apparently aren't able to keep straight which poster you spoke with about certain subjects... like the big fish story for example.

 

[ding]

Do any of those links contain claims by mainstream science that the god played a part?

And I have told you that there are alternative theories. None of which requires your favoured god to play a part.

They explain how the universe began which is something that disturbs your religious beliefs. Which is why you deny the science and believe in fairytales like the universe has always existed.

 

[ding]

I'm an atheist and I have no religion by definition. The Big Bang is a theory, among others including the 'multiverse' which you said you subscribe to. I prefer the theory that there was no beginning but there was a Big Bang. I thing that's the theory that you're adopted, but haven't considered completely enough so far.

You should probably stop behaving like you have a religion and go be happy.

There's no cosmological model where the universe doesn't begin. You didn't understand the link you posted even after I explained your error to you.

 

[ding]

And furthermore, you're 'sort of forced to believe there was no beginning aren't you?



Yes, I know you haven't yet defined that as being literal or just more of the rhetoric.

Could you clarify that one?

In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth - Genesis 1:1

But my belief that the universe began isn't because of the bible it's because of the science. Your rejection of science is because of your religion.

 

[ding]

Where have I ever denied mainstream science.

Are you denying that Genesis must be taken literally?

For about the last 10 pages of this thread.

I've already told you what Genesis had to say. Play that back and you'll have your answer.

 

[ding]

And, there are towers all over the Middle East.

So what? What does that matter?

 

[surada]

You're making a blanket statement on scripture not to be taken literally.

Ding isn't of that opinion yet, but could have modified his beliefs in the last 12 hours.

Does not taking the stories literally detract from the message?

The Incredible 11,000-Year-Old Tower of Jericho

Tell es-Sultan is an archaeological mound site in the West Bank, with a history going back to the Natufian Culture, to at least 10,000 BC. But this mound is something special because what its hiding is in fact the ancient city of Jericho. Before excavations began, you would be forgiven for thinking

www.thearchaeologist.org

 

[Donald H]

Does not taking the stories literally detract from the message?

The Incredible 11,000-Year-Old Tower of Jericho

Tell es-Sultan is an archaeological mound site in the West Bank, with a history going back to the Natufian Culture, to at least 10,000 BC. But this mound is something special because what its hiding is in fact the ancient city of Jericho. Before excavations began, you would be forgiven for thinking

www.thearchaeologist.org

No, because I'm an atheist. And probably not for most Christians because they believe the stories can be literally true. Even Ding started to hint at how the 'big fish' story can be made to be literally true. But don't quote me on that because I'll never be able to find it. He may answer?

 

[Donald H]

You should probably stop behaving like you have a religion and go be happy.

I have no religion, by definition.

There's no cosmological model where the universe doesn't begin. You didn't understand the link you posted even after I explained your error to you.

Yes, there is and I've shown you a link that informs you of the theory

 

[Donald H]

They explain how the universe began which is something that disturbs your religious beliefs. Which is why you deny the science and believe in fairytales like the universe has always existed.

No, science doesn't say that a god played a part in anything.