Flling apart Europe is a lot safer than Canada

[Correll]

Jamaica has gun laws, ownership about as restrictive as the UK, and Jamaica's murder rates are off the charts.

How come?

The rich Europeans tourists going on murder sprees?

Murder tourism, big thing in Europe. SO I hear.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Scotland has the lowest gun ownership rate in Western Europe, and also tops the charts for murder rates of Western Europe.

How come?

Haggis.

 

[Toro]

His point is that it is not AMERICA that is violent.


It is a few democratic hellholes that are violent and drag our numbers down.

The highest murder rates are in red states.

 

[Correll]

His point is that it is not AMERICA that is violent.


It is a few democratic hellholes that are violent and drag our numbers down.

The highest murder rates are in red states.

I know you are smart enough to know that states are not homogeneous blocks.


New York State without New York City, is a completely different set of numbers.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

His point is that it is not AMERICA that is violent.


It is a few democratic hellholes that are violent and drag our numbers down.

The highest murder rates are in red states.

The highest murder rates are in blue cities.

 

[Toro]

The overwhelming majority of those deaths are suicide. The murder rate for the western states (other than those with high illegal immigrant populations where the murder rate is sky high) is significantly lower than those for your blue states. Try comparing apples with apples.

OK here are the top 10 states by homicide. These do not include firearm suicides.

1. Louisiana
2. Mississippi
3. Alabama
4. Arkansas
5. South Carolina
6. Missouri
7. New Mexico
8. Maryland
9. Delaware (tie)
   
10. Georgia (tie)
    
11. Oklahoma (tie)

Stats of the States - Homicide Mortality

Now cross-reference those with the states with the highest rate of firearm mortality that I posted earlier. Six of those states on the homicide list are on the firearm death list.

1. Alaska
2. Louisiana
3. Alabama
4. Mississippi
5. Wyoming
6. Montana
7. New Mexico
8. Missouri
9. Oklahoma
10. South Carolina

If you have homicide rates by firearms - which do not include suicides - please post them. I'd be interested.

 

[Toro]

His point is that it is not AMERICA that is violent.


It is a few democratic hellholes that are violent and drag our numbers down.

The highest murder rates are in red states.

The highest murder rates are in blue cities.

That almost certainly true. And it wouldn't surprise me since cities are generally more violent and usually more liberal.

But that's also true in European cities as well.

I'd bet that the homicide rate in almost every major American city is higher than almost every major European city.

 

[Correll]

His point is that it is not AMERICA that is violent.


It is a few democratic hellholes that are violent and drag our numbers down.

The highest murder rates are in red states.

The highest murder rates are in blue cities.

That almost certainly true. And it wouldn't surprise me since cities are generally more violent and usually more liberal.

But that's also true in European cities as well.

IF you had numbers that subtracted out the minority/immigrant populations on both sides, then you would have a clearer picture of if GUNS are the problem.


I have never seen such numbers. I've seen American numbers with minorities subtracted out, and that puts US very close to EU averages.


But I have not seen it with immigrant populations subtracted out of European numbers.

 

[Oldstyle]

But but but...................Europe is falling apart according to you low information dickheads.......................

So when someone points out that your "data" is flawed...they are "low information dickheads"? You do get your panties in a twist...don't you, Tommy!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

His point is that it is not AMERICA that is violent.


It is a few democratic hellholes that are violent and drag our numbers down.

The highest murder rates are in red states.

The highest murder rates are in blue cities.

That almost certainly true. And it wouldn't surprise me since cities are generally more violent and usually more liberal.

But that's also true in European cities as well.

I'd bet that the homicide rate in almost every major American city is higher than almost every major European city.

I read somewhere that if you subtract minority crime, white American crime rates are equivalent to European violent crime rates.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

But but but...................Europe is falling apart according to you low information dickheads.......................

So when someone points out that your "data" is flawed...they are "low information dickheads"? You do get your panties in a twist...don't you, Tommy!

Tommy Taint is a delicate flower.

 

[Toro]

IF you had numbers that subtracted out the minority/immigrant populations on both sides, then you would have a clearer picture of if GUNS are the problem.


I have never seen such numbers. I've seen American numbers with minorities subtracted out, and that puts US very close to EU averages.


But I have not seen it with immigrant populations subtracted out of European numbers.

Somewhere I had read that the murder rate by whites in the US is 2.2, but I couldn't find it. So I tried to reconstruct it.

The FBI collects homicide date. The last data was from 2015.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 6

If you add up that first column on the left in the first table, the total number of murders committed by whites was 2,897. The third column from the right are the murders committed by Hispanics. Let's assume that every single Hispanic is white. (They aren't, but we'll assume it.) There were 751 murders by Hispanics. Subtract that from the total white number and you get 2,146 murders by non-Hispanic whites in 2015.

However, the data collected by the FBI is incomplete. In fact, there were 15,696 murders in the US whereas the FBI data accounts for only 6,025 murders, or 38.4% of the total. That means 9,671 murders were unaccounted for.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

Since 61.6% of the data is missing, or 9,671 murders, we have to make an estimate of the rate of white homicide for the rest of the population. Therefore, of the 9,671 unaccounted murders, whites committed somewhere between 0 and 9,671 of those murders.

The odds that whites committed either all or none of those unaccounted murders are statistically zero. But let's pretend that it is zero.

The population of non-Hispanic whites on July 1, 2016 was 197,969,608.

American FactFinder - Results

Assuming that the number of murders committed by whites was 2,146, that means the murder rate by whites would be 1.09.

2,146 / 197,969,608 X 100,000 = 1.09

That is still higher than the 0.99 homicide rate in Europe I posted earlier.

But since the probability of whites committing 0 of the 9,671 unaccounted murders is statistically 0%, we know that the rate is higher. But how much higher?

A reasonable starting point is "normalizing" the rate of murders by whites for the unaccounted population. IOW, if non-Hispanic whites accounted for 35.6% of the accounted murders

2,146 / 6,025 = 35.6%

It is a reasonable starting point to assume that non-Hispanic whites accounted for 35.6% of the 9,671 unaccounted murders, or 3,445.

9,671 X 35.6% = 3,445

So the total number of murders committed by non-Hispanic whites is estimated to be 5,991.

2,146 + 3,445 = 5,591

Using this estimate, then the rate of murders by non-Hispanic whites would be

5,591 / 197,969,608 X 100,000 = 2.83.

It is reasonable to assume that the rate of murder committed by non-white Hispanics is somewhere between 1.09 and 2.83, which is consistent with the 2.2 I recall seeing some time ago. It is also well above the 0.99 rate in Europe.

So it is safe to assume that the rate of murder by the non-Hispanic white population in the US is 2 to 3 times higher than in Europe.

 

[impuretrash]

Somewhere I had read that the murder rate by whites in the US is 2.2, but I couldn't find it. So I tried to reconstruct it.

The FBI collects homicide date. The last data was from 2015.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 6

If you add up that first column on the left in the first table, the total number of murders committed by whites was 2,897. The third column from the right are the murders committed by Hispanics. Let's assume that every single Hispanic is white. (They aren't, but we'll assume it.) There were 751 murders by Hispanics. Subtract that from the total white number and you get 2,146 murders by non-Hispanic whites in 2015.

However, the data collected by the FBI is incomplete. In fact, there were 15,696 murders in the US whereas the FBI data accounts for only 6,025 murders, or 38.4% of the total. That means 9,671 murders were unaccounted for.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

Since 61.6% of the data is missing, or 9,671 murders, we have to make an estimate of the rate of white homicide for the rest of the population. Therefore, of the 9,671 unaccounted murders, whites committed somewhere between 0 and 9,671 of those murders.

The odds that whites committed either all or none of those unaccounted murders are statistically zero. But let's pretend that it is zero.

The population of non-Hispanic whites on July 1, 2016 was 197,969,608.

American FactFinder - Results

Assuming that the number of murders committed by whites was 2,146, that means the murder rate by whites would be 1.09.

2,146 / 197,969,608 X 100,000 = 1.09

That is still higher than the 0.99 homicide rate in Europe I posted earlier.

But since the probability of whites committing 0 of the 9,671 unaccounted murders is statistically 0%, we know that the rate is higher. But how much higher?

A reasonable starting point is "normalizing" the rate of murders by whites for the unaccounted population. IOW, if non-Hispanic whites accounted for 35.6% of the accounted murders

2,146 / 6,025 = 35.6%

It is a reasonable starting point to assume that non-Hispanic whites accounted for 35.6% of the 9,671 unaccounted murders.

9,671 X 35.6% = 3,445

So the total number of murders committed by non-Hispanic whites is estimated to be 5,991.

2,146 + 3,445 = 5,591

Using this estimate, then the rate of murders by non-Hispanic whites would be

5,591 / 197,969,608 X 100,000 = 2.83.

It is reasonable to assume that the rate of murder committed by non-white Hispanics is somewhere between 1.09 and 2.83, which is consistent with the 2.2 I recall seeing some time ago. It is also well above the 0.99 rate in Europe.

So it is safe to assume that the rate of murder by the non-Hispanic white population in the US is 2 to 3 times higher than in Europe.

Your statistics do not differentiate gun homicides from any other form of murder which according to the law is a pretty broad category including unintentional killings such as death from a well placed punch, drunk driving or being an accomplice.

 

[impuretrash]

Here's a chart of stats actual homicides (which is different from murder) over the last few decades which proves that when it comes to homicides in general and gun homicides in particular, black people reign supreme:

 

[Toro]

Your statistics do not differentiate gun homicides from any other form of murder which according to the law is a pretty broad category including unintentional killings such as death from a well placed punch, drunk driving or being an accomplice.

Most have come from guns.

There were 9,616 reported homicides committed with firearms in 2015.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

The total number of reported homicides by weapon was 13,455, or 85.7% of the total 15,696 homicides. The normalized number of homicides committed by firearms is thus 11,218.

13,455 / 85.7% = 11,218

The total population of the United States was 323,127,513.

American FactFinder - Results

Thus the murder rate by firearms was 3.47.

11,218 / 323,127,513 X 100,000 = 3.47.

 

[impuretrash]

Your statistics do not differentiate gun homicides from any other form of murder which according to the law is a pretty broad category including unintentional killings such as death from a well placed punch, drunk driving or being an accomplice.

Most have come from guns.

There were 9,616 reported homicides committed with firearms in 2015.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

The total number of reported homicides by weapon was 13,455, or 85.7% of the total 15,696 homicides. The normalized number of homicides committed by firearms is thus 11,218.

13,455 / 85.7% = 11,218

The total population of the United States was 323,127,513.

American FactFinder - Results

Thus the murder rate by firearms was 3.47.

11,218 / 323,127,513 X 100,000 = 3.47.

59% of 3.47 is 2.04. The rate of gun homicides perpetrated by blacks.

3.47 - 2.04 = 1.43 the rate of gun homicides perpetrated by "whites" (including hispanics)

 

[westwall]

His point is that it is not AMERICA that is violent.


It is a few democratic hellholes that are violent and drag our numbers down.

The highest murder rates are in red states.

The highest murder rates are in blue cities.

That almost certainly true. And it wouldn't surprise me since cities are generally more violent and usually more liberal.

But that's also true in European cities as well.

I'd bet that the homicide rate in almost every major American city is higher than almost every major European city.

And you would probably be correct. However, the violence is mainly from gangs that are made up of illegal aliens and other third world imports. A population that Europe has never had to contend with until quite recently. And lo and behold their violent crime rates are exploding, as are their murder rates.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

IF you had numbers that subtracted out the minority/immigrant populations on both sides, then you would have a clearer picture of if GUNS are the problem.


I have never seen such numbers. I've seen American numbers with minorities subtracted out, and that puts US very close to EU averages.


But I have not seen it with immigrant populations subtracted out of European numbers.

Somewhere I had read that the murder rate by whites in the US is 2.2, but I couldn't find it. So I tried to reconstruct it.

The FBI collects homicide date. The last data was from 2015.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 6

If you add up that first column on the left in the first table, the total number of murders committed by whites was 2,897. The third column from the right are the murders committed by Hispanics. Let's assume that every single Hispanic is white. (They aren't, but we'll assume it.) There were 751 murders by Hispanics. Subtract that from the total white number and you get 2,146 murders by non-Hispanic whites in 2015.

However, the data collected by the FBI is incomplete. In fact, there were 15,696 murders in the US whereas the FBI data accounts for only 6,025 murders, or 38.4% of the total. That means 9,671 murders were unaccounted for.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

Since 61.6% of the data is missing, or 9,671 murders, we have to make an estimate of the rate of white homicide for the rest of the population. Therefore, of the 9,671 unaccounted murders, whites committed somewhere between 0 and 9,671 of those murders.

The odds that whites committed either all or none of those unaccounted murders are statistically zero. But let's pretend that it is zero.

The population of non-Hispanic whites on July 1, 2016 was 197,969,608.

American FactFinder - Results

Assuming that the number of murders committed by whites was 2,146, that means the murder rate by whites would be 1.09.

2,146 / 197,969,608 X 100,000 = 1.09

That is still higher than the 0.99 homicide rate in Europe I posted earlier.

But since the probability of whites committing 0 of the 9,671 unaccounted murders is statistically 0%, we know that the rate is higher. But how much higher?

A reasonable starting point is "normalizing" the rate of murders by whites for the unaccounted population. IOW, if non-Hispanic whites accounted for 35.6% of the accounted murders

2,146 / 6,025 = 35.6%

It is a reasonable starting point to assume that non-Hispanic whites accounted for 35.6% of the 9,671 unaccounted murders, or 3,445.

9,671 X 35.6% = 3,445

So the total number of murders committed by non-Hispanic whites is estimated to be 5,991.

2,146 + 3,445 = 5,591

Using this estimate, then the rate of murders by non-Hispanic whites would be

5,591 / 197,969,608 X 100,000 = 2.83.

It is reasonable to assume that the rate of murder committed by non-white Hispanics is somewhere between 1.09 and 2.83, which is consistent with the 2.2 I recall seeing some time ago. It is also well above the 0.99 rate in Europe.

So it is safe to assume that the rate of murder by the non-Hispanic white population in the US is 2 to 3 times higher than in Europe.

Whites in the Americas are presumably more violent, especially in areas where wild colonists traveled.

We see in Western frontiers of Canada, they also have much heftier murder rates than that of Europe too.

Homicide offences, number and rate, by province and territory (Homicide rate)

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

If you look at this list you can see all of the "Islamic" hell holes. Uk,Germany,France and the Nordic countries.

And yet they are all at least twice as safe as gun loving Canada.

When will Canada join Europe as a civilised country ?

Gun Violence by the Numbers

Norway's on the bottom of Europe in your list of gun murders, but is towards the top of the list in gun ownership rates in Europe. which includes surpassing Canada.

Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia

Do you ever do proper research?

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Why does Norway have nearly 10X less murder than Lithuania, but nearly 50 more guns than Lithuanians do per capita?

Why don't you dishonest slimes address that one?