Flat Tax

Would You Support a Flat Tax in America

  • Yes

    Votes: 23 71.9%
  • No

    Votes: 5 15.6%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 2 6.3%
  • Don't Care

    Votes: 2 6.3%

  • Total voters
    32
Originally posted by Avatar4321
The funny think about it is ive thought a flat tax was a good idea since junior high. the system now sucks and is totally unfair. if i can figure out before i can legally do squat why cant these people we seem to vote for constantly comprehend it?

I firmly believe that our "law makers" ignore a flat tax, because they know every damn loop hole in the system we got. Hell, "they wrote it". If we had a new tax code where everybody had to pay alike, that would mean they would have to pay as well, and that's, what I think, is the biggest reason we don't have it yet.
 
Ok, let's all watch the name calling and vocabulary. Thank you. Carry on.
 
Simple math can tell us that 17% of 100k is more money than 17% of 25k. The issue is that it is respectively the same. The top 1%(250k and up) of this nation are penalized for alot of money. The problem there is that these people are doctors, lawyers, CEOs, stock brokers, people with alot of education. So problem isn't, "Are the poor peole gonna be hurt by a flat tax?" It's 'Why are we penalizing people for having an education?" In country where everyone wants to equal, how about we all have an equal share in our monetary obligations as well. The fact remains, that the rich are still gonna put out more money than the poor, but it will be a fair share. If the flat tax generates a surplus like it did in Russia, then give the money back to the poor.
(just for the record, I'm not a member of the top 1%, just hoping to win the lottery someday:D )
 
Flat tax!
There can be no other way. Unless you consider what we have today to be a solution to anything. If fairness was truly important to politicians we would see no "brackets" or any of that crap and be flat out taxed with a %. That way the rich and poor would pull their own weight. The rich made more money, why shouldn't they be able to spend it? (thus helping the economy!)
 
Originally posted by Pale Rider
I firmly believe that our "law makers" ignore a flat tax, because they know every damn loop hole in the system we got. Hell, "they wrote it". If we had a new tax code where everybody had to pay alike, that would mean they would have to pay as well, and that's, what I think, is the biggest reason we don't have it yet.

The reason there is no flat tax, is that the majority of americans would have to endure a tax hike. In this politcal climate, who could blame congress for not wanting to piss off 99% of america. They would all be looking for jobs in the private sector.
 
Originally posted by armstrong80
Simple math can tell us that 17% of 100k is more money than 17% of 25k. The issue is that it is respectively the same. The top 1%(250k and up) of this nation are penalized for alot of money. The problem there is that these people are doctors, lawyers, CEOs, stock brokers, people with alot of education. So problem isn't, "Are the poor peole gonna be hurt by a flat tax?" It's 'Why are we penalizing people for having an education?" In country where everyone wants to equal, how about we all have an equal share in our monetary obligations as well. The fact remains, that the rich are still gonna put out more money than the poor, but it will be a fair share. If the flat tax generates a surplus like it did in Russia, then give the money back to the poor.
(just for the record, I'm not a member of the top 1%, just hoping to win the lottery someday:D )

You may be in the top 1% of the world.

I think 17% is too much. God only asks for 10%, why should the state demand more? But one third of our income is just too much.
 
Originally posted by Avatar4321
You may be in the top 1% of the world.

I think 17% is too much. God only asks for 10%, why should the state demand more? But one third of our income is just too much.

I wasn't suggesting 17%, it was just a number I jerked out of the air. The tax rate should be around 8%.
 
Originally posted by Avatar4321
You may be in the top 1% of the world.

I think 17% is too much. God only asks for 10%, why should the state demand more? But one third of our income is just too much.

God is a more effecent spender. :D
 
Originally posted by Avatar4321
You may be in the top 1% of the world.

I think 17% is too much. God only asks for 10%, why should the state demand more? But one third of our income is just too much.

Ummmm Avatar.... "one third" would be 33.3333%. Not 17%.

Even though, I agree 17% would be too much. I think more like 8 or 9 percent would be more like it.
 
Originally posted by Pale Rider
Ummmm Avatar.... "one third" would be 33.3333%. Not 17%.

Even though, I agree 17% would be too much. I think more like 8 or 9 percent would be more like it.

Pale - in his defense, he was agreeing and stating that 1/3 is TOO much to pay. :)
 
i'm definitely for a flat tax. i always liked the idea and am still convinced it's the only fair way to tax.

if you want a pretty good (non-partisan, the guy rips clinton and bush's tax policies equally with well supported facts) book to help convince you that a flat tax is neccessary.... read perfectly legal by david cay johnston.

that's one last thing about american politics: we criticize bold ideas and thoughts. we could be so much better if we reacted better to and embraced more of such ideas and thoughts.
 
Originally posted by americanexpo
that's one last thing about american politics: we criticize bold ideas and thoughts. we could be so much better if we reacted better to and embraced more of such ideas and thoughts.

I agree that if everyone spent half the time they took tearing people down to build them up then the world would be better. But this is America, and it is my right to react as poorly as I want to any idea or thought. And so I will.

That is why I love America, we have politicians who actually fight for things. We don't just let opinions of others dominate ourselves, we lash out and fight for what we love.
 
Originally posted by HGROKIT
Pale - in his defense, he was agreeing and stating that 1/3 is TOO much to pay. :)

Well then where did he get the idea anyone had suggested one third? I didn't see that anywhere....
confused-smiley-013.gif


The only person in America that is in an influential position, that I've heard say America needs a flat tax, and if elected President I'll fight for it, was Steve Forbes. And he earned my vote for him for President that year.

I think the American electorate opted for slick willie over him. How depressing.
 
Originally posted by Pale Rider
Ummmm Avatar.... "one third" would be 33.3333%. Not 17%.

Even though, I agree 17% would be too much. I think more like 8 or 9 percent would be more like it.

yes 17% isnt 1/3, but then i wasnt talking about the 17% you were purposing i was talking about our current tax rate that averages between 36-39%
 
How about this:

Abolishment of ALL taxes (income, property, death, utility, etc) and having a flat National sales tax. No tax returns, no loopholes, a verrrry small IRS. Everyone pays the same amount.

Fire Away!
 
Originally posted by JIHADTHIS
How about this:

Abolishment of ALL taxes (income, property, death, utility, etc) and having a flat National sales tax. No tax returns, no loopholes, a verrrry small IRS. Everyone pays the same amount.

Fire Away!

I dunno if that would fund our National Security.
That would be my biggest concern.
I hate paying taxes but I believe in a big enough government that I think some are neccesary.

I'm with you though, let's simplify this rediculous system and reduce the size of the IRS.

Jihad that!

edit: FUCK DEATH TAX! Isn't death taxing enough on families?
 
Originally posted by Avatar4321
yes 17% isnt 1/3, but then i wasnt talking about the 17% you were purposing i was talking about our current tax rate that averages between 36-39%

Aaaaaaaah... the CURRENT tax rate. Yes, that IS what we're talking about changing, and you're right, IT'S WAY TO MUCH!

http://www.cse.org/informed/issues_template.php?issue_id=890

RUSSIA'S FLAT TAX REFORM
Russia switched to a 13 percent flat tax and tax revenues increased.




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From DALLAS MORNING NEWS

This year Americans will pay accountants and attorneys $140
billion to do their taxes and help them navigate the 46,000-page
U.S. Tax Code. Too bad, observers say, this isn't Russia.



Since January 1, 2001, Russians have enjoyed a 13 percent flat tax.


Even the old Russian system was simpler than ours, with three tax rates - 12, 20 and 30 percent.


The U.S. has six -- 6, 10, 15, 27, 30, 35 and 38.6 percent, the last of which takes hold at $307,500 for married couples filing jointly.

The majority of Russian taxpayers don't need to file forms. The 13 percent rate has exceeded expectations in terms of revenue, as real ruble revenue increased 28 percent


Three years ago, tax revenue equaled 9 to 10 percent of Russian gross domestic product.


By last November that had grown to 16 percent as result following the Laffer Curve: lower marginal tax rates produce higher revenues.

The new system has also greatly reduced the underground economy, where people were paid in goods rather than cash to facilitate tax evasion.

In other pro-market moves, President Vladimir Putin has signed legislation to cut the corporate tax rate from 35 to 24 percent. The Kremlin may also offer Russians privately invested social ecurity accounts, much as President Bush wants for Americans.

As one observer has noted, V.I. Lenin, analyzing all this from his dacha in hell, must be stroking his beard in utter bewilderment.

Source: Deroy Murdock, "Even Russia Realized the Wisdom of a Flat
Tax," Dallas Morning News, March 4, 2002.
 
http://www.rense.com/general36/flat.htm

Russia's Flat-Tax Miracle
By Daniel Mitchell, PhD
3-26-3

It's never fun to admit failure. But Russia's 13 percent flat tax forces me to confess a certain degree of incompetence. For 10 years, I've been working in Washington to replace our convoluted tax code with a simple and fair flat tax. But as every taxpayer can attest, my efforts have not borne fruit.

Yet in Russia, President Vladimir Putin -- the former head of the Soviet KGB -- implemented a flat tax in 2001. Not only a flat tax, but a flat tax with a 13 percent rate, four percentage points lower than the supposedly "radical" plan espoused by Steve Forbes and former House Majority Leader Dick Armey. And it's been a big success.

Imagine how this makes me feel. I've tried to help reform the tax system in the United States, a nation the rest of the world considers the home of unfettered capitalism and free-market principles. Yet every year, our tax code gets bigger and more complicated. In Russia, by contrast, the flat tax has been in place for more than two years now. And this reform took place in a nation still trying to overcome the legacy of more than 70 years of communist dictatorship.

Remember the saying: "To the victors go the spoils"? It must not be true. We won the Cold War, but Russia gets a flat tax while America is stuck with a Byzantine tax system based on class-warfare ideology.

But perhaps our luck will change. The Russian flat tax has been so successful that even American politicians might learn the right lessons. Let's look at the evidence: Russia's economy has expanded by about 10 percent since it adopted a flat tax. That may not be spectacular, but it's better than the United States, and it's very impressive compared to the anemic growth rates we see elsewhere in Europe.

It also appears, conventional wisdom aside, that a low tax rate doesn't mean less money for government. Over the last two years, inflation-adjusted income tax revenue in Russia has grown 50 percent. Why? Because people are willing to produce more and pay their taxes when the system if fair and tax rates are low -- exactly what Ronald Reagan predicted when he triggered America's economic boom with lower tax rates 20 years ago. Ironically, the former communists in Moscow now understand supply-side economics, yet liberals in Congress are still relying on the politics of hate-and-envy.

Interestingly, the flat tax is just one of several positive reforms enacted by President Putin. Russia also has reduced the corporate rate of tax from 35 percent to 24 percent. (U.S.-based companies still pay 35 percent, the second-highest corporate tax among industrialized nations). Small businesses also get better treatment. The old system with high tax rates has been replaced by a new system where companies can choose either a 6 percent tax on gross revenue or a 15 percent tax on profits.

Of course, President Putin can do more. Russia still needs to privatize inefficient state-run industries. It also would be nice if he supported President Bush in the Middle East; after all, Bush has supported Putin's flat tax. During a state visit in 2001, President Bush said, "I am impressed by the fact that [Putin] has instituted tax reform -- a flat tax. And as he pointed out to me, it is one of the lowest tax rates in Europe. He and I share something in common: We both proudly stand here as tax reformers."

The success of Russia's flat tax shouldn't surprise anyone. Hong Kong has had a flat tax for a long time, and it's been the world's fastest-growing economy over some 50 years. Indeed, there are growing signs that China may implement a flat tax in the near future. Talk about a man-bites-dog story! One of the few remaining communist nations may get a flat tax before America. At this rate, the United States may wind up in the same category as France, Cuba and North Korea.
To be fair, President Bush is moving America in the right direction. He already has pushed one tax cut through Congress (though most of it has yet to take effect). Now he is urging lawmakers to end the double taxation of dividends and expand IRAs. All of these policies shift us -- slowly but surely -- in the direction of a flat tax.

It would be nice, however, if we got to a flat tax during my lifetime. And even if we implemented the flat tax because we didn't want to fall behind the rest of the world, at least I'll be able to tell myself that my efforts weren't wasted.
 
I totally agree. Flat (or "proportionate tax) at 15%, excluding the first X amount of earned income, X being whatever the national poverty level is. So if the poverty level is $12,000/yr, your first $12,000 is exempted. The only other deduction I would allow is mortgage interest on your primary home. Nothing else. It would not raise taxes on the poor, but it would significantly lower everyone else's taxes.

Vote me in 2004!!! :thup:
 

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