Flat Tax vs Fair Tax

[DiamondDave]

But you get a flat tax, with everyone on the hook.. and I bet you suddenly have more people with an interest in getting government to cut spending... when they don't have a stake in the game, and they get freebies, why in the hell would they care how much debt there is?? Why would they care if tax rates increase?? Why the hell would anything matter to them except keeping their burden at zero and keeping the freebies coming??

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

But you get a flat tax, with everyone on the hook.. and I bet you suddenly have more people with an interest in getting government to cut spending... when they don't have a stake in the game, and they get freebies, why in the hell would they care how much debt there is?? Why would they care if tax rates increase?? Why the hell would anything matter to them except keeping their burden at zero and keeping the freebies coming??

everyone has a stake in the game. everyone pays some sort of a tax,


the bullshit myths about taxes needs to be challenged.


debt is manageable. how one deals with debt is the issue.


everyone pays taxes.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

We all agree the tax system is broke. The question is how do we fix it or do we replace it with something else?

Do you support a Flat Tax or the Fair Tax plans and why?

The Flat Tax is a wet dream of billionaires like Forbes. nuf said


Fair Tax plans? Progressive taxation is the only fair and reasonable way to go without killing off the middle class and looking out for those left behind.

I agree. The fair tax is progressive but it's not based on the government's classification through tax brackets. You choose how much you pay through your spending.

The fair tax? I wrote a progressive tax is the only fair tax

 

[akelch]

But you get a flat tax, with everyone on the hook.. and I bet you suddenly have more people with an interest in getting government to cut spending... when they don't have a stake in the game, and they get freebies, why in the hell would they care how much debt there is?? Why would they care if tax rates increase?? Why the hell would anything matter to them except keeping their burden at zero and keeping the freebies coming??

Again.... Not everyone is on the hook. Only the ones that receive a income. The Fair Tax is everyone that spends money. Underground economy, foreign visitors, etc. and only US citizens receive the prebate.

A lot larger tax base.

 

[LoneLaugher]

So we are going to raise as much revenue as we do now while lowering the rates paid by wealthy people and raising the rates paid by working class and poor people.

Great plan.

 

[DiamondDave]

But you get a flat tax, with everyone on the hook.. and I bet you suddenly have more people with an interest in getting government to cut spending... when they don't have a stake in the game, and they get freebies, why in the hell would they care how much debt there is?? Why would they care if tax rates increase?? Why the hell would anything matter to them except keeping their burden at zero and keeping the freebies coming??

everyone has a stake in the game. everyone pays some sort of a tax,


the bullshit myths about taxes needs to be challenged.


debt is manageable. how one deals with debt is the issue.


everyone pays taxes.

Uhhh.. idiot.. we are talking income tax.... if poor person X is allowed to be exempt from say income tax, I guess since you are in support of that that you would then be in support of rich person Y being exempt from say sales tax or gas tax or SS tax or something else?? We already know the answer is No.... You know full well what the deal is.. you just thought you would get a bullshit jab in... I won't let such shit fly, troll

Debt is not manageable at our levels

 

[DiamondDave]

So we are going to raise as much revenue as we do now while lowering the taxes paid by wealthy people and raising the taxes paid by working class people.

Great plan.

Nobody should have been exempt or paying lower % in come tax to begin with... that slippery slope led us to the bullshit situation we are in now

 

[DiamondDave]

But you get a flat tax, with everyone on the hook.. and I bet you suddenly have more people with an interest in getting government to cut spending... when they don't have a stake in the game, and they get freebies, why in the hell would they care how much debt there is?? Why would they care if tax rates increase?? Why the hell would anything matter to them except keeping their burden at zero and keeping the freebies coming??

Again.... Not everyone is on the hook. Only the ones that receive a income. The Fair Tax is everyone that spends money. Underground economy, foreign visitors, etc. and only US citizens receive the prebate.

A lot larger tax base.

Uh.... what about those who would then spend no money (probably about as many as those who have truly zero income)???

 

[DiamondDave]

The Flat Tax is a wet dream of billionaires like Forbes. nuf said


Fair Tax plans? Progressive taxation is the only fair and reasonable way to go without killing off the middle class and looking out for those left behind.

I agree. The fair tax is progressive but it's not based on the government's classification through tax brackets. You choose how much you pay through your spending.

The fair tax? I wrote a progressive tax is the only fair tax

1) Fair is SUBJECTIVE
2) Progressive is unequal by definition

 

[Skull Pilot]

But you get a flat tax, with everyone on the hook.. and I bet you suddenly have more people with an interest in getting government to cut spending... when they don't have a stake in the game, and they get freebies, why in the hell would they care how much debt there is?? Why would they care if tax rates increase?? Why the hell would anything matter to them except keeping their burden at zero and keeping the freebies coming??

everyone has a stake in the game. everyone pays some sort of a tax,


the bullshit myths about taxes needs to be challenged.


debt is manageable. how one deals with debt is the issue.


everyone pays taxes.

But some people are exempt from some taxes and that should not be the case.

For example if you have an income then you should pay income tax.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So again, how is decreasing someones wallet by 10% productive when they are already struggling as it is?

10% is not too much to ask from anyone.

If someone is struggling now they won't be struggling too much more under a flat tax.

Why do you believe some people should be exempt from taxes and that others should be penalized with a higher rate?

Everyone with an income should pay income tax. Everyone with a house pays property tax. Everyone who buys gas pays the gas tax.

It's equal treatment and nothing is more fair than that.

You could have said you are out of touch with reality and common sense and cut right to the chase.

Since when does the cost of government depend on what some people can or can't afford?

That is a subjective argument. The only fair way to tax is to tax everyone at the same rate.

If you make less than me you don't pay less in property tax do you? Less in gas tax? Less in sales taxes?

Why is income and its tax any different?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Are there any modern, industrialized nations currently using either a fair tax or a flat tax?

 

[akelch]

The Flat Tax is a wet dream of billionaires like Forbes. nuf said


Fair Tax plans? Progressive taxation is the only fair and reasonable way to go without killing off the middle class and looking out for those left behind.

I agree. The fair tax is progressive but it's not based on the government's classification through tax brackets. You choose how much you pay through your spending.

The fair tax? I wrote a progressive tax is the only fair tax

What are you taxing?

 

[akelch]

Are there any modern, industrialized nations currently using either a fair tax or a flat tax?

Yes...BUT you have to look at the whole tax structure to really compare.

Example if a country has a 10% flat tax BUT the also have a 80% property tax it changes things.

 

[eflatminor]

Are there any modern, industrialized nations currently using either a fair tax or a flat tax?

Lots. Probably close to 50 countries in all, some big modern countries, others small. Some US states use a flat tax as well.

Of course, there are different versions of a flat tax. Some a true flat tax, some marginal (above a certain income). Others allow some deductions.

I'm not aware of any country using the Fair Tax. I think that's a relatively new idea.

 

[akelch]

More info on Fair Tax.

http://www.chron.com/opinion/outloo...solve-U-S-revenue-problems-4045063.php#src=fb

 

[Mustang]

We need a combination of revenue streams.

First of all, we need progressive income tax with limited deductions like mortgage interest deductions (for the primary residence only). This would prevent people from shielding their income from taxation.

Secondly, we need a national sales tax with exemptions for absolute necessities (like food, for example).

This approach would tax both earnings and spending, and it would also promote a higher savings rate due to the national sales tax collected at the point of sale.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Are there any modern, industrialized nations currently using either a fair tax or a flat tax?

Russia has had great success with their flat tax

 

[Skull Pilot]

Are there any modern, industrialized nations currently using either a fair tax or a flat tax?

Yes...BUT you have to look at the whole tax structure to really compare.

Example if a country has a 10% flat tax BUT the also have a 80% property tax it changes things.

There is currently no federal property tax.

 

[eflatminor]

...we need progressive income tax with limited deductions like mortgage interest deductions (for the primary residence only)...

Tell me, why do you think those that rent their primary residence should be made to supplement the tax revenue not paid by those that own property? Aren't those that have mortgages probably better off financially than the renters? Doesn't seem fair at all.

Stated differently, why should the government create tax loopholes that benefit the residential property market while punishing the residential rental market?