Flat Tax vs Fair Tax

[LoneLaugher]

Are there any modern, industrialized nations currently using either a fair tax or a flat tax?

Russia has had great success with their flat tax

They have?

 

[eflatminor]

We need a combination of revenue streams.

First of all, we need progressive income tax with limited deductions like mortgage interest deductions (for the primary residence only). This would prevent people from shielding their income from taxation.

Secondly, we need a national sales tax with exemptions for absolute necessities (like food, for example).

This approach would tax both earnings and spending, and it would also promote a higher savings rate due to the national sales tax collected at the point of sale.

Sounds like the worst of both worlds to me. Keep the progressive rates bullshit in place AND implement a national sales tax? No way.

Hey, here's a thought...why don't we take the over $2 trillion we collect in tax revenue every year and simply live within our means? Crazy, I know. Of course, we managed to run the country on that amount at one time...ALL the way back in 2004 when the federal government spent $2.3 trillion.

Of course, we did have all those dead bodies rotting in the streets, mass starvation...it's was pretty ugly.

 

[eflatminor]

Are there any modern, industrialized nations currently using either a fair tax or a flat tax?

Russia has had great success with their flat tax

They have?

Indeed. In 2001, Russia switched from a system of 12, 20 and 30 percent tax rates to a 13 percent flat income tax. Adjusted for inflation, revenue from Russia’s personal income tax increased by 26% in the year after a flat tax was implemented, and by nearly one-fifth as a percentage of GDP. Russia also saw strong GDP growth throughout the 2000s, ranging from 6 to 8 percent from 2003-07.

 

[Politico]

Neither.

 

[akelch]

We need a combination of revenue streams.

First of all, we need progressive income tax with limited deductions like mortgage interest deductions (for the primary residence only). This would prevent people from shielding their income from taxation.

Secondly, we need a national sales tax with exemptions for absolute necessities (like food, for example).

This approach would tax both earnings and spending, and it would also promote a higher savings rate due to the national sales tax collected at the point of sale.

Really?? How will it promote savings? What will you have left to save?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Russia has had great success with their flat tax

They have?

Indeed. In 2001, Russia switched from a system of 12, 20 and 30 percent tax rates to a 13 percent flat income tax. Adjusted for inflation, revenue from Russia’s personal income tax increased by 26% in the year after a flat tax was implemented, and by nearly one-fifth as a percentage of GDP. Russia also saw strong GDP growth throughout the 2000s, ranging from 6 to 8 percent from 2003-07.

Is that the whole story?

 

[Paulie]

How will our massively bloated military budget be sustained with a "Fair Tax"?

That's the point. It WON'T be.

 

[akelch]

How will our massively bloated military budget be sustained with a "Fair Tax"?

That's the point. It WON'T be.

Is it now?

 

[Pheonixops]

The Fair Tax replaces income tax, social Security tax, capital gains tax, Medicare tax and replaces it with a consumption tax at the point if sale.

So no more filing of taxes, you keep all the money you earn, businesses produce and export with no taxes attached (help compete in the global market.) This will also help keep jobs in US. Everyone pays it including the illegal workers, underground economy (drug deals, etc.) and foreign visitors. Very hard to avoid but easier to regulate.

Most of all it is a level playing field. Politicians can not play favorites. If you raise the tax you raise it on everyone.

The bill in on Capital Hill and it is only 33 pages long compare that to 77,000 pages of the income tax.

Good description, but there are also other provisions in it as well.

'Fair tax advocates claim that it would get rid of the IRS but it would likely be replaced with another agency by a different name. The proposal promises that most individuals will get a monthly prebate paid in advance. The amount of the prebate is determined by the Department of Health & Human Services' poverty level guidelines. Who would administer this? (This is more...........government! Drop that prebate crap and lower the overall rate.) Unlike the flat tax, the fair tax as a replacement for the income tax has never been implemented in any country. We have no real world examples of what a fair tax would look like in action. Perhaps the fair tax isn’t as politically feasible as the flat tax. It’s important to remember that repealing a constitutional amendment requires the approval of 290 House members, 67 Senators and a majority of the legislatures in three-fourths of the states.'
Flat Tax vs. Fair Tax | FreedomWorks

 

[Pheonixops]

Fair tax,but too many people favor the status quo and change scares the crap out of them.
And the elites wouldn't be in favor of anything that would eliminate their power to manipulate the masses.

I don't like that prebate crap and some of the other provisions. In short almost 100% of Americans and American families would be DEPENDENT ON A GOVERNMENT CHECK!

 

[Paulie]

How will our massively bloated military budget be sustained with a "Fair Tax"?

That's the point. It WON'T be.

Is it now?

Touche'

 

[Pheonixops]

Fair tax,but too many people favor the status quo and change scares the crap out of them.
And the elites wouldn't be in favor of anything that would eliminate their power to manipulate the masses.

I don't like that prebate crap and some of the other provisions. In short almost 100% of Americans and American families would be DEPENDENT ON A GOVERNMENT CHECK!

The new campaign slogans; 'I'm running to increase your prebate checks from the government!' and 'I'm running on decreasing your prebate check from the government!' .

 

[gallantwarrior]

They have?

Indeed. In 2001, Russia switched from a system of 12, 20 and 30 percent tax rates to a 13 percent flat income tax. Adjusted for inflation, revenue from Russia’s personal income tax increased by 26% in the year after a flat tax was implemented, and by nearly one-fifth as a percentage of GDP. Russia also saw strong GDP growth throughout the 2000s, ranging from 6 to 8 percent from 2003-07.

Is that the whole story?

No. They were also moving into a free market economic model.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Indeed. In 2001, Russia switched from a system of 12, 20 and 30 percent tax rates to a 13 percent flat income tax. Adjusted for inflation, revenue from Russia’s personal income tax increased by 26% in the year after a flat tax was implemented, and by nearly one-fifth as a percentage of GDP. Russia also saw strong GDP growth throughout the 2000s, ranging from 6 to 8 percent from 2003-07.

Is that the whole story?

No. They were also moving into a free market economic model.

Still not the whole story. I wonder why you guys are leaving out some of the details? Lack of convenience?

 

[akelch]

Fair tax,but too many people favor the status quo and change scares the crap out of them.
And the elites wouldn't be in favor of anything that would eliminate their power to manipulate the masses.

I don't like that prebate crap and some of the other provisions. In short almost 100% of Americans and American families would be DEPENDENT ON A GOVERNMENT CHECK!

The new campaign slogans; 'I'm running to increase your prebate checks from the government!' and 'I'm running on decreasing your prebate check from the government!' .

And your plan is?

 

[akelch]

Fair tax,but too many people favor the status quo and change scares the crap out of them.
And the elites wouldn't be in favor of anything that would eliminate their power to manipulate the masses.

I don't like that prebate crap and some of the other provisions. In short almost 100% of Americans and American families would be DEPENDENT ON A GOVERNMENT CHECK!

The prebate is there for a reason. No one will depend on this check because it is not enough to survive on. It is just enough to off set some taxes.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

How about repeal the unconstitutional sixteenth amendment and have a federal sales tax? That's the only fair way to tax people.

 

[editec]

The Fair Tax replaces income tax, social Security tax, capital gains tax, Medicare tax and replaces it with a consumption tax at the point if sale.

Oh...it's a VAT tax?

Is that proposed tax levied at every point of sale or ONLY levied at the END CONSUMER point of sale?

 

[editec]

How about this?

FLAT SOCIAL SECUITY taxation.

Do you want that?

Of course you don't. Your masters would have to pay at the same rate as working people do.

Hypocrital liberatarian ALERT.

Corporations pay no taxes. They collect them.

True.


However that really has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote, does it?

 

[editec]

We all agree the tax system is broke. The question is how do we fix it or do we replace it with something else?

Do you support a Flat Tax or the Fair Tax plans and why?

I believe, as did our founders, that taxing a person's labor is immoral.

It's also worth mentioning that if the federal government operated within the confines of the enumerated powers, there would be no need for an income tax of any kind.

Just a thought.

And HOW did the Founding Fathers' original governments find the revenue they needed to operate their government?


TARIFFS.


And what has our government been destroying for the last 50 years with FREE TRADE?

The TARIFF system.


It's really so bloody obvious, isn't it?