Flat Tax vs Fair Tax

[akelch]

We all agree the tax system is broke. The question is how do we fix it or do we replace it with something else?

Do you support a Flat Tax or the Fair Tax plans and why?

The Flat Tax is a wet dream of billionaires like Forbes. nuf said


Fair Tax plans? Progressive taxation is the only fair and reasonable way to go without killing off the middle class and looking out for those left behind.

I agree. The fair tax is progressive but it's not based on the government's classification through tax brackets. You choose how much you pay through your spending.

 

[AmyNation]

I would lean toward a Flat Tax although I would want to know more about the exemptions for families.

There's your slippery slope. Start with exemptions for one group and before you know it, there will be exemptions for all kinds of things.

Correct... you start with exemptions and exceptions, and it becomes BY DEFINITION a progressive tax with unequal treatment

If, and that's a really big if, a flat tax was ever a possiblity, the only way to get bipartisan support on it, would be to include a waiver for the poverty line. So, if you have a family of 4, and the index says $35,000, you dont get taxed on that $35,000, only on what you made over it. Although I don't think a flat tax has a prayer, I'm 100% certain you will never get national support without something along those lines.

 

[Contumacious]

We all agree the tax system is broke. The question is how do we fix it or do we replace it with something else?

Do you support a Flat Tax or the Fair Tax plans and why?

The Flat Tax is a wet dream of billionaires like Forbes. nuf said


Fair Tax plans? Progressive taxation is the only fair and reasonable way to go without killing off the middle class and looking out for those left behind.

Are the rich more Americans that the middle or poor classes?

How do you motivate the poor to get off the dole ?

How do you prevent the poor from voting some that they won't be tempted to stick to the rich?


.

 

[DiamondDave]

There's your slippery slope. Start with exemptions for one group and before you know it, there will be exemptions for all kinds of things.

Correct... you start with exemptions and exceptions, and it becomes BY DEFINITION a progressive tax with unequal treatment

If, and that's a really big if, a flat tax was ever a possiblity, the only way to get bipartisan support on it, would be to include a waiver for the poverty line. So, if you have a family of 4, and the index says $35,000, you dont get taxed on that $35,000, only on what you made over it. Although I don't think a flat tax has a prayer, I'm 100% certain you will never get national support without something along those lines.

A waiver or 'floor' for the poverty line simply makes it a disguised progressive tax.. as I have shown mathematically before

 

[akelch]

Nobody really wants to change the current tax system, too much money and power tied up into it.

Nobody in power wants to change the current tax system which is exactly why it needs to be changed.

Best quote so far!!!!

 

[Some Guy]

The Flat Tax is a wet dream of billionaires like Forbes. nuf said

Really? I seem to recall the left being all worked up about Romney only paying 12-14% in taxes due to capital gains and exemptions, deductions, etc, etc. If there was, for example, a straight 25% tax on all income, be it capital gains, wages, etc, without exemptions and deductions no matter how much money you took in, would Romney not have paid twice as much in income taxes?

The rich either work their way around the current progressive tax code or they don't.

 

[akelch]

Correct... you start with exemptions and exceptions, and it becomes BY DEFINITION a progressive tax with unequal treatment

If, and that's a really big if, a flat tax was ever a possiblity, the only way to get bipartisan support on it, would be to include a waiver for the poverty line. So, if you have a family of 4, and the index says $35,000, you dont get taxed on that $35,000, only on what you made over it. Although I don't think a flat tax has a prayer, I'm 100% certain you will never get national support without something along those lines.

A waiver or 'floor' for the poverty line simply makes it a disguised progressive tax.. as I have shown mathematically before

Keep in mind under the flat tax Only the people that work pay.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Increase off the backs of the poor and middle class. How is that productive?

The lowest tax bracket is already 10% so I don't see the problem.

No one with an income should be exempt from the income tax.

So again, how is decreasing someones wallet by 10% productive when they are already struggling as it is?

10% is not too much to ask from anyone.

If someone is struggling now they won't be struggling too much more under a flat tax.

Why do you believe some people should be exempt from taxes and that others should be penalized with a higher rate?

Everyone with an income should pay income tax. Everyone with a house pays property tax. Everyone who buys gas pays the gas tax.

It's equal treatment and nothing is more fair than that.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If, and that's a really big if, a flat tax was ever a possiblity, the only way to get bipartisan support on it, would be to include a waiver for the poverty line. So, if you have a family of 4, and the index says $35,000, you dont get taxed on that $35,000, only on what you made over it. Although I don't think a flat tax has a prayer, I'm 100% certain you will never get national support without something along those lines.

A waiver or 'floor' for the poverty line simply makes it a disguised progressive tax.. as I have shown mathematically before

Keep in mind under the flat tax Only the people that work pay.

no anyone with an income will pay.

All income sources will be treated the same.

 

[RDD_1210]

Yet the rest of the statement pegs you perfectly... hence why you said nothing about it

Sure I have, plenty of times. It gets us nowhere, so why bother repeating myself? I'll let you come up with creative names for me and pretend like you've accomplished something.

And you 'say' lots of things about it.. which shows your continual support of unequal treatment of others when it benefits you or your cause, and demand equal treatment when it benefits you or your cause... which is about as hypocritical as you can get.... The only thing you have accomplished is to show your greed and envy of others to justify your will to have them pay for things you want and to have them pay to support those who you want supported... all the while screaming that you are for equality in treatment by government..

At least you could be honest and state that you simply want and support a Robin Hood inspired system that is by nature and definition unequal in treatment and subjective in nature

Laugh
Out
Loud

 

[RDD_1210]

The lowest tax bracket is already 10% so I don't see the problem.

No one with an income should be exempt from the income tax.

So again, how is decreasing someones wallet by 10% productive when they are already struggling as it is?

10% is not too much to ask from anyone.

If someone is struggling now they won't be struggling too much more under a flat tax.

Why do you believe some people should be exempt from taxes and that others should be penalized with a higher rate?

Everyone with an income should pay income tax. Everyone with a house pays property tax. Everyone who buys gas pays the gas tax.

It's equal treatment and nothing is more fair than that.

You could have said you are out of touch with reality and common sense and cut right to the chase.

 

[AmyNation]

Correct... you start with exemptions and exceptions, and it becomes BY DEFINITION a progressive tax with unequal treatment

If, and that's a really big if, a flat tax was ever a possiblity, the only way to get bipartisan support on it, would be to include a waiver for the poverty line. So, if you have a family of 4, and the index says $35,000, you dont get taxed on that $35,000, only on what you made over it. Although I don't think a flat tax has a prayer, I'm 100% certain you will never get national support without something along those lines.

A waiver or 'floor' for the poverty line simply makes it a disguised progressive tax.. as I have shown mathematically before

Doesn't change the fact that you will never, ever, ever, get a flat tax without it. Youll never get support for a tax system that taxes the impoverished.

 

[DiamondDave]

If, and that's a really big if, a flat tax was ever a possiblity, the only way to get bipartisan support on it, would be to include a waiver for the poverty line. So, if you have a family of 4, and the index says $35,000, you dont get taxed on that $35,000, only on what you made over it. Although I don't think a flat tax has a prayer, I'm 100% certain you will never get national support without something along those lines.

A waiver or 'floor' for the poverty line simply makes it a disguised progressive tax.. as I have shown mathematically before

Keep in mind under the flat tax Only the people that work pay.

No.. anyone who earns even one dollar pays.. whether they work or not.. and if you do not EARN, you do not pay.. because it is an income tax and not a wealth tax

 

[DiamondDave]

Sure I have, plenty of times. It gets us nowhere, so why bother repeating myself? I'll let you come up with creative names for me and pretend like you've accomplished something.

And you 'say' lots of things about it.. which shows your continual support of unequal treatment of others when it benefits you or your cause, and demand equal treatment when it benefits you or your cause... which is about as hypocritical as you can get.... The only thing you have accomplished is to show your greed and envy of others to justify your will to have them pay for things you want and to have them pay to support those who you want supported... all the while screaming that you are for equality in treatment by government..

At least you could be honest and state that you simply want and support a Robin Hood inspired system that is by nature and definition unequal in treatment and subjective in nature

Laugh
Out
Loud

Many people do laugh at the truth... evidently, that does include you

 

[DiamondDave]

If, and that's a really big if, a flat tax was ever a possiblity, the only way to get bipartisan support on it, would be to include a waiver for the poverty line. So, if you have a family of 4, and the index says $35,000, you dont get taxed on that $35,000, only on what you made over it. Although I don't think a flat tax has a prayer, I'm 100% certain you will never get national support without something along those lines.

A waiver or 'floor' for the poverty line simply makes it a disguised progressive tax.. as I have shown mathematically before

Doesn't change the fact that you will never, ever, ever, get a flat tax without it. Youll never get support for a tax system that taxes the impoverished.

And that does not change the fact that any progressive system, by definition, is unequal treatment by government under law... and support of any such system is by definition support of unequal treatment.. and if said person then complains about or calls for equality in treatment in other areas (because it benefits them or their cause) they are by definition a hypocrite

 

[AmyNation]

A waiver or 'floor' for the poverty line simply makes it a disguised progressive tax.. as I have shown mathematically before

Doesn't change the fact that you will never, ever, ever, get a flat tax without it. Youll never get support for a tax system that taxes the impoverished.

And that does not change the fact that any progressive system, by definition, is unequal treatment by government under law... and support of any such system is by definition support of unequal treatment.. and if said person then complains about or calls for equality in treatment in other areas (because it benefits them or their cause) they are by definition a hypocrite

I don't consider it unequal treatment, whether you make 20k, or 200k, you pay the same rate, 10% on everything above the poverty line.

 

[Truthseeker420]

The Fair Tax replaces income tax, social Security tax, capital gains tax, Medicare tax and replaces it with a consumption tax at the point if sale.

So no more filing of taxes, you keep all the money you earn, businesses produce and export with no taxes attached (help compete in the global market.) This will also help keep jobs in US. Everyone pays it including the illegal workers, underground economy (drug deals, etc.) and foreign visitors. Very hard to avoid but easier to regulate.

Most of all it is a level playing field. Politicians can not play favorites. If you raise the tax you raise it on everyone.

The bill in on Capital Hill and it is only 33 pages long compare that to 77,000 pages of the income tax.

How do you have a consumption tax for the military? For example, the Iraq war was for the oil/energy war profiteers companies. Also would you charge a tax for every time a business alarm goes off because a rat sets off a motion detector in a business and the police have to respond?

 

[DiamondDave]

Doesn't change the fact that you will never, ever, ever, get a flat tax without it. Youll never get support for a tax system that taxes the impoverished.

And that does not change the fact that any progressive system, by definition, is unequal treatment by government under law... and support of any such system is by definition support of unequal treatment.. and if said person then complains about or calls for equality in treatment in other areas (because it benefits them or their cause) they are by definition a hypocrite

I don't consider it unequal treatment, whether you make 20k, or 200k, you pay the same rate, 10% on everything above the poverty line.

Yet a person making 20K pays nothing in income tax.. a person making 25K pays a 2% rate.. and a person making 100K pays a rate of 8% ON ALL INCOME EARNED... it is not like that first 20K of income just disappears or that it does not exist... a progressive system is by definition unequal treatment.. whether you feel it is right or ok or not

 

[akelch]

Doesn't change the fact that you will never, ever, ever, get a flat tax without it. Youll never get support for a tax system that taxes the impoverished.

And that does not change the fact that any progressive system, by definition, is unequal treatment by government under law... and support of any such system is by definition support of unequal treatment.. and if said person then complains about or calls for equality in treatment in other areas (because it benefits them or their cause) they are by definition a hypocrite

I don't consider it unequal treatment, whether you make 20k, or 200k, you pay the same rate, 10% on everything above the poverty line.

Who says it will be 10%? Check again...it will be closer to 20% to continue to get same revenue.

 

[AmyNation]

And that does not change the fact that any progressive system, by definition, is unequal treatment by government under law... and support of any such system is by definition support of unequal treatment.. and if said person then complains about or calls for equality in treatment in other areas (because it benefits them or their cause) they are by definition a hypocrite

I don't consider it unequal treatment, whether you make 20k, or 200k, you pay the same rate, 10% on everything above the poverty line.

Who says it will be 10%? Check again...it will be closer to 20% to continue to get same revenue.

Yet another reason the flat tax will never happen.