First Amendment Question

[dblack]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

 

[night_son]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

Good question. One might argue education is organic to the state and vice versa. The state is responsible for creation of educational structure--the nuts and bolts. Or were you speaking more to the dogmatic, unchangeable fundamental facts of disciplines such as science and history, for example? More like why can the state modify historical sources of curriculum?

 

[dblack]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

Good question. One might argue education is organic to the state and vice versa. The state is responsible for creation of educational structure--the nuts and bolts. Or were you speaking more to the dogmatic, unchangeable fundamental facts of disciplines such as science and history, for example? More like why can the state modify historical sources of curriculum?

No. Nothing like that. Much of the reasoning for a "Separation of Church and State" is that it is dangerous to grant indoctrination power to the state. Governments have, historically, coveted the power of religion and sought to co-opt it, merging it with government. It gives the state radically more pervasive control over a population.

I'm wondering, why do we consider education any different? Hasn't it become as powerful, if not more so, as tool to control public opinion? Don't the arguments against state control of religion apply equally well to education?

 

[night_son]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

Good question. One might argue education is organic to the state and vice versa. The state is responsible for creation of educational structure--the nuts and bolts. Or were you speaking more to the dogmatic, unchangeable fundamental facts of disciplines such as science and history, for example? More like why can the state modify historical sources of curriculum?

No. Nothing like that. Much of the reasoning for a "Separation of Church and State" is that it is dangerous to grant indoctrination power to the state. Governments have, historically, coveted the power of religion and sought to co-opt it, merging it with government. It gives the state radically more pervasive control over a population.

I'm wondering, why do we consider education any different? Hasn't it become as powerful, if not more so, as tool to control public opinion? Don't the arguments against state control of religion apply equally well to education?

Thank you for specifying.

While as you say, historically, governments have merged with religion as a means of control, in America religion runs alongside government more as a silent but ever potent partner somewhere in the background--like a shadow cast over policy. Religious education is not mandated officially, nor is religious belief forced. Of course national religious belief is insinuated, as you say, but from far the level of a theocracy like Iran.

Whereas education is government mandated. Are you suggesting privatization of what is now public education? On the premise that public education has become too politicized--too polarizing an institution for either party and their bases? Public education used as a weapon against the people? In that case I'd say yes, arguments against state control of religion should apply equally well to education.

What level of public education specifically? Is there a specific case that prompted the question?

 

[Markle]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

I doubt that our founding father's never imagined that there would be a dispute about teaching the basics of life, along with the "three 'R's".

 

[BULLDOG]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

Good question. One might argue education is organic to the state and vice versa. The state is responsible for creation of educational structure--the nuts and bolts. Or were you speaking more to the dogmatic, unchangeable fundamental facts of disciplines such as science and history, for example? More like why can the state modify historical sources of curriculum?

No. Nothing like that. Much of the reasoning for a "Separation of Church and State" is that it is dangerous to grant indoctrination power to the state. Governments have, historically, coveted the power of religion and sought to co-opt it, merging it with government. It gives the state radically more pervasive control over a population.

I'm wondering, why do we consider education any different? Hasn't it become as powerful, if not more so, as tool to control public opinion? Don't the arguments against state control of religion apply equally well to education?

Other than religion based complaints; evolution, sexual education, etc; what do you find wrong with our education curriculum?

 

[Nosmo King]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

Because one can compromise on governance. One can compromise on education. But one never compromises on his God.

 

[BULLDOG]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

Because one can compromise on governance. One can compromise on education. But one never compromises on his God.

No one except the Bible, Preachers, and religious nuts. They all compromise on accepted religious information.

 

[PoliticalChic]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

yeah....and how come there's no carbonated meat?????

 

[Natural Citizen]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

The government isn't authorized by the Constitution to be involved with education.

The queston should be why are they.

 

[Natural Citizen]

That said, America is the only nation in the history of the world to base its philosophy of governance on creation.

All men are created...endowed by their creator - Declaration of Independence.

Our system of governance is religious in nature.

Of course, America is a haven for all religions. But that requires expansion on the topic. Which I, for one, don't feel like doing.

 

[hadit]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

Good question. One might argue education is organic to the state and vice versa. The state is responsible for creation of educational structure--the nuts and bolts. Or were you speaking more to the dogmatic, unchangeable fundamental facts of disciplines such as science and history, for example? More like why can the state modify historical sources of curriculum?

No. Nothing like that. Much of the reasoning for a "Separation of Church and State" is that it is dangerous to grant indoctrination power to the state. Governments have, historically, coveted the power of religion and sought to co-opt it, merging it with government. It gives the state radically more pervasive control over a population.

I'm wondering, why do we consider education any different? Hasn't it become as powerful, if not more so, as tool to control public opinion? Don't the arguments against state control of religion apply equally well to education?

It's the Golden rule. He who has the gold makes the rules. In this case, government is funding education, so it's going to control it.

 

[dblack]

What level of public education specifically? Is there a specific case that prompted the question?

No specific case. I was thinking about the logic behind keeping government out of religion. The reasons for preventing government from controlling religion apply equally well to education.

 

[LuckyDuck]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

Good question. One might argue education is organic to the state and vice versa. The state is responsible for creation of educational structure--the nuts and bolts. Or were you speaking more to the dogmatic, unchangeable fundamental facts of disciplines such as science and history, for example? More like why can the state modify historical sources of curriculum?

No. Nothing like that. Much of the reasoning for a "Separation of Church and State" is that it is dangerous to grant indoctrination power to the state. Governments have, historically, coveted the power of religion and sought to co-opt it, merging it with government. It gives the state radically more pervasive control over a population.

I'm wondering, why do we consider education any different? Hasn't it become as powerful, if not more so, as tool to control public opinion? Don't the arguments against state control of religion apply equally well to education?

I would have no problem with state sponsored education, if it were restricted to reading, writing, mathematics, science, U.S. and world history, U.S. Constitution/Amendments/Federalist papers, business economics, English/grammar/spelling, Physical education, literature, basic sex education and work shops (electrical, wood, et cetera). However, schools have now gone too far in that they incorporate religion into their curriculum, especially, the "Islamic culture." Religion must stay in the homes and among their own religious institutes.

 

[Crepitus]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

Because contrary to conservative belief reading, math, history, and even science are not religions.

 

[dblack]

I would have no problem with state sponsored education, if it were restricted to reading, writing, mathematics, science, U.S. and world history, U.S. Constitution/Amendments/Federalist papers, business economics, English/grammar/spelling, Physical education, literature, basic sex education and work shops (electrical, wood, et cetera). However, schools have now gone too far in that they incorporate religion into their curriculum, especially, the "Islamic culture." Religion must stay in the homes and among their own religious institutes.

That's the problem though. We all have a different idea about what children "ought" to learn. It's become another wedge for the 'culture wars'. If we stopped using government to force culture change on society, there would be no war.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

Good question. One might argue education is organic to the state and vice versa. The state is responsible for creation of educational structure--the nuts and bolts. Or were you speaking more to the dogmatic, unchangeable fundamental facts of disciplines such as science and history, for example? More like why can the state modify historical sources of curriculum?

No. Nothing like that. Much of the reasoning for a "Separation of Church and State" is that it is dangerous to grant indoctrination power to the state. Governments have, historically, coveted the power of religion and sought to co-opt it, merging it with government. It gives the state radically more pervasive control over a population.

I'm wondering, why do we consider education any different? Hasn't it become as powerful, if not more so, as tool to control public opinion? Don't the arguments against state control of religion apply equally well to education?

Because the thread premise fails as a false comparison fallacy.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

I doubt that our founding father's never imagined that there would be a dispute about teaching the basics of life, along with the "three 'R's".

The Framers never imagined the ridiculous occurrence of public education being politicized and vilified.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

The government isn't authorized by the Constitution to be involved with education.

The queston should be why are they.

Nor is it prohibited by the Constitution from doing so.

 

[dblack]

If religion should be protected from state encroachment, why not education?

The government isn't authorized by the Constitution to be involved with education.

The queston should be why are they.

Nor is it prohibited by the Constitution from doing so.

Does your version of the Constitution have white-out over the Tenth Amendment?