Finally.........A Palestinian Contribution To Mankind

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Great Philosophers and Zen Masters, in discussions with students --- seldom impart data or direct knowledge to the students. "Insight" and "enlightenment" are not a matter of memory or functions of language and mathematics. "Insight" and "enlightenment" is attainable by means of a formula or scrupulously following rules or directions. Instead, "insight" and "enlightenment" on the ability to adaptively think about individuals and the multiples, the local area, the global view, the solar community, the galactic constituents and the universe; orienting yourself to the conditions that present the "now." It is sometimes a need to find a wholly new way of making sense of the reality (U Yun Qin, ≈ 450 BCE). In the 17th Century, in a period of enlightenment, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz would come to call this the "Principle of Sufficient Reason" (PSR). You may not know or understand the progression or a reason for a specific event, but if it happened, then their was a chain of causality.

PSR is very applicable to the arguments presented about the Arab-Israeli Conflict.

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.

(COMMENT)

I. Questions to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Transjordan, Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon:

(a) Are armed elements of your armed forces or irregular forces sponsored by your Government now operating

(1) in Palestine;
(2) in areas (towns, cities, districts) of Palestine where the Jews are in the majority?​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

In its reply dated May 24 (S/775) the Arab Higher Committee stated in answer to question (a) that it exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine. Being composed of representatives of the different Arab political parties, it formed a coalition which expressed Arab public opinion in Palestine. The Arab Higher Committee concluded further that it therefore spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine, inasmuch as the Arabs were in the majority in all districts and sub-districts except that of Jaffa, in which Tel Aviv is located.

The Enlightenment: It cannot be the case that the All Palestine Government (APG) and the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) could simultaneously "exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine;" and that the AHC "spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine."
​

The reply of the Provisional Government of Israel (S/766) to the questions addressed to the "Jewish authorities in Palestine" was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations on May 22.
​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

​

In reply to questions (a) and (b) it was stated that the Provisional Government of Israel was actually exercising control of the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the General Assembly's resolution of November 29, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government of Israel was exercising control over certain parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel, parts which, with the notable exception of Jerusalem,

​

For Your Reference:

• 1947-48 Part 1: United Nations. Section 3: The Security Council. Chapter D: Political and security questions Beginning Page 439
• 1948-49 Title Page i The Yearbook of the United Nations
​

The Enlightenment:

∆ While your question may be interesting academically (only to a few), it applies no relevance to the reality as it was seen then by the Parties Involved. Clearly the APG was not a parties, but could be considered a limited constituency with no capacity.

Trying to argue this point is simply ridiculous. Even the APG itself was not real. That became obvious when the Egyptians dissolved the APG in 1959. Where was the right of self-determination then?

The right of self determination is the right of the people of the place. A state or government is not a requirement.

(COMMENT)

This is clearly an answer to a question, somewhere; but irrelevant to this discussion. The APG had no real constituency in the territory as a whole or in the sovereign control of Israel. The Arabs of Palestine were represented by the AHC.

"PART I.

"The consultations among the permanent members of the Security Council and informal communications with the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee, held since March 5, 1948, have developed the following facts regarding the situation with respect to Palestine:

"1. The Jewish Agency accepts the partition plan, considers it to be the irreducible minimum acceptable to the Jews, and insists upon the implementation of the plan without modification.

"2. The Arab Higher Committee rejects any solution based on partition in any form and considers that the only acceptable solution is the formation of one independent State for the whole of Palestine, whose constitution would be based on democratic principles and which would include adequate safeguards for minorities and the safety of the Holy Places.

"3. No modifications in the essentials of the partition plan are acceptable to the Jewish Agency, and no modifications would make the plan acceptable to the Arab Higher Committee.

"4. The Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee have indicated that the partition plan cannot be implemented by peaceful means under present conditions.

"5. The Mandatory Power has confirmed that a considerable number of incursions of illegal arms and armed elements into Palestine have occurred by land and sea.

"6. The gradual withdrawal of the military forces of the Mandatory Power will, in the absence of agreement, result in increasing violence and disorder in Palestine. Warfare of a guerrilla type grows more violent constantly.

"7. If the mandate is terminated prior to a peaceful solution of the problem, large-scale fighting between the two communities can be expected.
​

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee. The All-Palestine Government was not established by the Arab League until on 22 September 1948. "At its 200th meeting on 15 November, the First Committee decided, by a vote of 48 to none, with 5 abstentions, to grant a hearing to the Arab Higher Committee, in accordance with its request (A/C.1/335), to express the views of the Arabs of Palestine on the question of Palestine and on the report of the Mediator. The Committee, however, made no allusion to the credentials of the Higher Committee as representing the All-Palestine Government, as had been requested by the Higher Committee and the All-Palestine Government (A/C.1/339)." See UN Yearbook 1948-49 Part i, Section 3, Page 168)

Most Respectfully,
R

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee.

• Palestine Commission - Foreigners
• the Mandatory Power - Foreigners
• the Jewish Agency - Foreigners
• Arab Higher Committee - The only Palestinian body

So what happened to the only Palestinian representation?

When the Committee was outlawed in September 1937, six of its members were deported, its president Amin al-Husayni managed to escape arrest and went into exile in Beirut. Jamal al-Husayni escaped to Syria. Three other members were deported to the Seychelles, and other members moved into voluntary exile in neighbouring countries. Al-Hadi, who was out of the country at the time, was not allowed to return.

Arab Higher Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

And your response will be a bunch of crap that foreigners did.

You're rather selective in your cutting and pasting. From the wiki article:


On 26 September 1937, the Acting British District Commissioner of Galilee, Lewis Yelland Andrews, was assassinated in Nazareth. The next day Britain outlawed the Arab Higher Committee,[9] and began to arrest its members. On 1 October 1937, the National Bloc, the Reform Party and the Istiqlal Party were dissolved.[10] Yaqub al-Ghusayn, Al-Khalidi and Ahmed Hilmi Pasha were arrested and then deported.[10] Jamal al-Husayni escaped to Syria, as did Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni. Amin al-Husayni managed to escape arrest, but was removed from the presidency of the Supreme Muslim Council.[11] The Committee was banned by the Mandate administration and three members (and two other Palestinian leaders) were deported to the Seychelles and the others moved into voluntary exile in neighbouring countries.[12] Awni Abd al-Hadi, who was out of the country at the time, was not allowed to return. The National Defence Party, which had withdrawn from the AHC soon after its formation, was not outlawed,



Who was responsible for the murder of Commissioner of Galilee, Lewis Yelland Andrews? Was it heavily armed, radical Lutherans?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Great Philosophers and Zen Masters, in discussions with students --- seldom impart data or direct knowledge to the students. "Insight" and "enlightenment" are not a matter of memory or functions of language and mathematics. "Insight" and "enlightenment" is attainable by means of a formula or scrupulously following rules or directions. Instead, "insight" and "enlightenment" on the ability to adaptively think about individuals and the multiples, the local area, the global view, the solar community, the galactic constituents and the universe; orienting yourself to the conditions that present the "now." It is sometimes a need to find a wholly new way of making sense of the reality (U Yun Qin, ≈ 450 BCE). In the 17th Century, in a period of enlightenment, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz would come to call this the "Principle of Sufficient Reason" (PSR). You may not know or understand the progression or a reason for a specific event, but if it happened, then their was a chain of causality.

PSR is very applicable to the arguments presented about the Arab-Israeli Conflict.

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.

(COMMENT)

I. Questions to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Transjordan, Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon:

(a) Are armed elements of your armed forces or irregular forces sponsored by your Government now operating

(1) in Palestine;
(2) in areas (towns, cities, districts) of Palestine where the Jews are in the majority?​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

In its reply dated May 24 (S/775) the Arab Higher Committee stated in answer to question (a) that it exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine. Being composed of representatives of the different Arab political parties, it formed a coalition which expressed Arab public opinion in Palestine. The Arab Higher Committee concluded further that it therefore spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine, inasmuch as the Arabs were in the majority in all districts and sub-districts except that of Jaffa, in which Tel Aviv is located.

The Enlightenment: It cannot be the case that the All Palestine Government (APG) and the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) could simultaneously "exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine;" and that the AHC "spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine."
​

The reply of the Provisional Government of Israel (S/766) to the questions addressed to the "Jewish authorities in Palestine" was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations on May 22.
​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

​

In reply to questions (a) and (b) it was stated that the Provisional Government of Israel was actually exercising control of the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the General Assembly's resolution of November 29, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government of Israel was exercising control over certain parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel, parts which, with the notable exception of Jerusalem,

​

For Your Reference:

• 1947-48 Part 1: United Nations. Section 3: The Security Council. Chapter D: Political and security questions Beginning Page 439
• 1948-49 Title Page i The Yearbook of the United Nations
​

The Enlightenment:

∆ While your question may be interesting academically (only to a few), it applies no relevance to the reality as it was seen then by the Parties Involved. Clearly the APG was not a parties, but could be considered a limited constituency with no capacity.

Trying to argue this point is simply ridiculous. Even the APG itself was not real. That became obvious when the Egyptians dissolved the APG in 1959. Where was the right of self-determination then?

The right of self determination is the right of the people of the place. A state or government is not a requirement.

(COMMENT)

This is clearly an answer to a question, somewhere; but irrelevant to this discussion. The APG had no real constituency in the territory as a whole or in the sovereign control of Israel. The Arabs of Palestine were represented by the AHC.

"PART I.

"The consultations among the permanent members of the Security Council and informal communications with the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee, held since March 5, 1948, have developed the following facts regarding the situation with respect to Palestine:

"1. The Jewish Agency accepts the partition plan, considers it to be the irreducible minimum acceptable to the Jews, and insists upon the implementation of the plan without modification.

"2. The Arab Higher Committee rejects any solution based on partition in any form and considers that the only acceptable solution is the formation of one independent State for the whole of Palestine, whose constitution would be based on democratic principles and which would include adequate safeguards for minorities and the safety of the Holy Places.

"3. No modifications in the essentials of the partition plan are acceptable to the Jewish Agency, and no modifications would make the plan acceptable to the Arab Higher Committee.

"4. The Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee have indicated that the partition plan cannot be implemented by peaceful means under present conditions.

"5. The Mandatory Power has confirmed that a considerable number of incursions of illegal arms and armed elements into Palestine have occurred by land and sea.

"6. The gradual withdrawal of the military forces of the Mandatory Power will, in the absence of agreement, result in increasing violence and disorder in Palestine. Warfare of a guerrilla type grows more violent constantly.

"7. If the mandate is terminated prior to a peaceful solution of the problem, large-scale fighting between the two communities can be expected.
​

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee. The All-Palestine Government was not established by the Arab League until on 22 September 1948. "At its 200th meeting on 15 November, the First Committee decided, by a vote of 48 to none, with 5 abstentions, to grant a hearing to the Arab Higher Committee, in accordance with its request (A/C.1/335), to express the views of the Arabs of Palestine on the question of Palestine and on the report of the Mediator. The Committee, however, made no allusion to the credentials of the Higher Committee as representing the All-Palestine Government, as had been requested by the Higher Committee and the All-Palestine Government (A/C.1/339)." See UN Yearbook 1948-49 Part i, Section 3, Page 168)

Most Respectfully,
R

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.​

Nice smokescreen.

You ducked my post.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Great Philosophers and Zen Masters, in discussions with students --- seldom impart data or direct knowledge to the students. "Insight" and "enlightenment" are not a matter of memory or functions of language and mathematics. "Insight" and "enlightenment" is attainable by means of a formula or scrupulously following rules or directions. Instead, "insight" and "enlightenment" on the ability to adaptively think about individuals and the multiples, the local area, the global view, the solar community, the galactic constituents and the universe; orienting yourself to the conditions that present the "now." It is sometimes a need to find a wholly new way of making sense of the reality (U Yun Qin, ≈ 450 BCE). In the 17th Century, in a period of enlightenment, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz would come to call this the "Principle of Sufficient Reason" (PSR). You may not know or understand the progression or a reason for a specific event, but if it happened, then their was a chain of causality.

PSR is very applicable to the arguments presented about the Arab-Israeli Conflict.

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.

(COMMENT)

I. Questions to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Transjordan, Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon:

(a) Are armed elements of your armed forces or irregular forces sponsored by your Government now operating

(1) in Palestine;
(2) in areas (towns, cities, districts) of Palestine where the Jews are in the majority?​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

In its reply dated May 24 (S/775) the Arab Higher Committee stated in answer to question (a) that it exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine. Being composed of representatives of the different Arab political parties, it formed a coalition which expressed Arab public opinion in Palestine. The Arab Higher Committee concluded further that it therefore spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine, inasmuch as the Arabs were in the majority in all districts and sub-districts except that of Jaffa, in which Tel Aviv is located.

The Enlightenment: It cannot be the case that the All Palestine Government (APG) and the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) could simultaneously "exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine;" and that the AHC "spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine."
​

The reply of the Provisional Government of Israel (S/766) to the questions addressed to the "Jewish authorities in Palestine" was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations on May 22.
​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

​

In reply to questions (a) and (b) it was stated that the Provisional Government of Israel was actually exercising control of the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the General Assembly's resolution of November 29, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government of Israel was exercising control over certain parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel, parts which, with the notable exception of Jerusalem,

​

For Your Reference:

• 1947-48 Part 1: United Nations. Section 3: The Security Council. Chapter D: Political and security questions Beginning Page 439
• 1948-49 Title Page i The Yearbook of the United Nations
​

The Enlightenment:

∆ While your question may be interesting academically (only to a few), it applies no relevance to the reality as it was seen then by the Parties Involved. Clearly the APG was not a parties, but could be considered a limited constituency with no capacity.

Trying to argue this point is simply ridiculous. Even the APG itself was not real. That became obvious when the Egyptians dissolved the APG in 1959. Where was the right of self-determination then?

The right of self determination is the right of the people of the place. A state or government is not a requirement.

(COMMENT)

This is clearly an answer to a question, somewhere; but irrelevant to this discussion. The APG had no real constituency in the territory as a whole or in the sovereign control of Israel. The Arabs of Palestine were represented by the AHC.

"PART I.

"The consultations among the permanent members of the Security Council and informal communications with the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee, held since March 5, 1948, have developed the following facts regarding the situation with respect to Palestine:

"1. The Jewish Agency accepts the partition plan, considers it to be the irreducible minimum acceptable to the Jews, and insists upon the implementation of the plan without modification.

"2. The Arab Higher Committee rejects any solution based on partition in any form and considers that the only acceptable solution is the formation of one independent State for the whole of Palestine, whose constitution would be based on democratic principles and which would include adequate safeguards for minorities and the safety of the Holy Places.

"3. No modifications in the essentials of the partition plan are acceptable to the Jewish Agency, and no modifications would make the plan acceptable to the Arab Higher Committee.

"4. The Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee have indicated that the partition plan cannot be implemented by peaceful means under present conditions.

"5. The Mandatory Power has confirmed that a considerable number of incursions of illegal arms and armed elements into Palestine have occurred by land and sea.

"6. The gradual withdrawal of the military forces of the Mandatory Power will, in the absence of agreement, result in increasing violence and disorder in Palestine. Warfare of a guerrilla type grows more violent constantly.

"7. If the mandate is terminated prior to a peaceful solution of the problem, large-scale fighting between the two communities can be expected.
​

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee. The All-Palestine Government was not established by the Arab League until on 22 September 1948. "At its 200th meeting on 15 November, the First Committee decided, by a vote of 48 to none, with 5 abstentions, to grant a hearing to the Arab Higher Committee, in accordance with its request (A/C.1/335), to express the views of the Arabs of Palestine on the question of Palestine and on the report of the Mediator. The Committee, however, made no allusion to the credentials of the Higher Committee as representing the All-Palestine Government, as had been requested by the Higher Committee and the All-Palestine Government (A/C.1/339)." See UN Yearbook 1948-49 Part i, Section 3, Page 168)

Most Respectfully,
R

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee.

• Palestine Commission - Foreigners
• the Mandatory Power - Foreigners
• the Jewish Agency - Foreigners
• Arab Higher Committee - The only Palestinian body

So what happened to the only Palestinian representation?

When the Committee was outlawed in September 1937, six of its members were deported, its president Amin al-Husayni managed to escape arrest and went into exile in Beirut. Jamal al-Husayni escaped to Syria. Three other members were deported to the Seychelles, and other members moved into voluntary exile in neighbouring countries. Al-Hadi, who was out of the country at the time, was not allowed to return.

Arab Higher Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

And your response will be a bunch of crap that foreigners did.

You're rather selective in your cutting and pasting. From the wiki article:


On 26 September 1937, the Acting British District Commissioner of Galilee, Lewis Yelland Andrews, was assassinated in Nazareth. The next day Britain outlawed the Arab Higher Committee,[9] and began to arrest its members. On 1 October 1937, the National Bloc, the Reform Party and the Istiqlal Party were dissolved.[10] Yaqub al-Ghusayn, Al-Khalidi and Ahmed Hilmi Pasha were arrested and then deported.[10] Jamal al-Husayni escaped to Syria, as did Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni. Amin al-Husayni managed to escape arrest, but was removed from the presidency of the Supreme Muslim Council.[11] The Committee was banned by the Mandate administration and three members (and two other Palestinian leaders) were deported to the Seychelles and the others moved into voluntary exile in neighbouring countries.[12] Awni Abd al-Hadi, who was out of the country at the time, was not allowed to return. The National Defence Party, which had withdrawn from the AHC soon after its formation, was not outlawed,



Who was responsible for the murder of Commissioner of Galilee, Lewis Yelland Andrews? Was it heavily armed, radical Lutherans?

I don't know. It didn't say. Was it ever investigated?

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Great Philosophers and Zen Masters, in discussions with students --- seldom impart data or direct knowledge to the students. "Insight" and "enlightenment" are not a matter of memory or functions of language and mathematics. "Insight" and "enlightenment" is attainable by means of a formula or scrupulously following rules or directions. Instead, "insight" and "enlightenment" on the ability to adaptively think about individuals and the multiples, the local area, the global view, the solar community, the galactic constituents and the universe; orienting yourself to the conditions that present the "now." It is sometimes a need to find a wholly new way of making sense of the reality (U Yun Qin, ≈ 450 BCE). In the 17th Century, in a period of enlightenment, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz would come to call this the "Principle of Sufficient Reason" (PSR). You may not know or understand the progression or a reason for a specific event, but if it happened, then their was a chain of causality.

PSR is very applicable to the arguments presented about the Arab-Israeli Conflict.

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.

(COMMENT)

I. Questions to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Transjordan, Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon:

(a) Are armed elements of your armed forces or irregular forces sponsored by your Government now operating

(1) in Palestine;
(2) in areas (towns, cities, districts) of Palestine where the Jews are in the majority?​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

In its reply dated May 24 (S/775) the Arab Higher Committee stated in answer to question (a) that it exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine. Being composed of representatives of the different Arab political parties, it formed a coalition which expressed Arab public opinion in Palestine. The Arab Higher Committee concluded further that it therefore spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine, inasmuch as the Arabs were in the majority in all districts and sub-districts except that of Jaffa, in which Tel Aviv is located.

The Enlightenment: It cannot be the case that the All Palestine Government (APG) and the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) could simultaneously "exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine;" and that the AHC "spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine."
​

The reply of the Provisional Government of Israel (S/766) to the questions addressed to the "Jewish authorities in Palestine" was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations on May 22.
​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

​

In reply to questions (a) and (b) it was stated that the Provisional Government of Israel was actually exercising control of the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the General Assembly's resolution of November 29, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government of Israel was exercising control over certain parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel, parts which, with the notable exception of Jerusalem,

​

For Your Reference:

• 1947-48 Part 1: United Nations. Section 3: The Security Council. Chapter D: Political and security questions Beginning Page 439
• 1948-49 Title Page i The Yearbook of the United Nations
​

The Enlightenment:

∆ While your question may be interesting academically (only to a few), it applies no relevance to the reality as it was seen then by the Parties Involved. Clearly the APG was not a parties, but could be considered a limited constituency with no capacity.

Trying to argue this point is simply ridiculous. Even the APG itself was not real. That became obvious when the Egyptians dissolved the APG in 1959. Where was the right of self-determination then?

The right of self determination is the right of the people of the place. A state or government is not a requirement.

(COMMENT)

This is clearly an answer to a question, somewhere; but irrelevant to this discussion. The APG had no real constituency in the territory as a whole or in the sovereign control of Israel. The Arabs of Palestine were represented by the AHC.

"PART I.

"The consultations among the permanent members of the Security Council and informal communications with the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee, held since March 5, 1948, have developed the following facts regarding the situation with respect to Palestine:

"1. The Jewish Agency accepts the partition plan, considers it to be the irreducible minimum acceptable to the Jews, and insists upon the implementation of the plan without modification.

"2. The Arab Higher Committee rejects any solution based on partition in any form and considers that the only acceptable solution is the formation of one independent State for the whole of Palestine, whose constitution would be based on democratic principles and which would include adequate safeguards for minorities and the safety of the Holy Places.

"3. No modifications in the essentials of the partition plan are acceptable to the Jewish Agency, and no modifications would make the plan acceptable to the Arab Higher Committee.

"4. The Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee have indicated that the partition plan cannot be implemented by peaceful means under present conditions.

"5. The Mandatory Power has confirmed that a considerable number of incursions of illegal arms and armed elements into Palestine have occurred by land and sea.

"6. The gradual withdrawal of the military forces of the Mandatory Power will, in the absence of agreement, result in increasing violence and disorder in Palestine. Warfare of a guerrilla type grows more violent constantly.

"7. If the mandate is terminated prior to a peaceful solution of the problem, large-scale fighting between the two communities can be expected.
​

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee. The All-Palestine Government was not established by the Arab League until on 22 September 1948. "At its 200th meeting on 15 November, the First Committee decided, by a vote of 48 to none, with 5 abstentions, to grant a hearing to the Arab Higher Committee, in accordance with its request (A/C.1/335), to express the views of the Arabs of Palestine on the question of Palestine and on the report of the Mediator. The Committee, however, made no allusion to the credentials of the Higher Committee as representing the All-Palestine Government, as had been requested by the Higher Committee and the All-Palestine Government (A/C.1/339)." See UN Yearbook 1948-49 Part i, Section 3, Page 168)

Most Respectfully,
R

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.​

Nice smokescreen.

You ducked my post.

"The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I believe you will find that the Israelis have shown it to be bogus.

You might be oxygen deprived from inhaling all that smoke.

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Great Philosophers and Zen Masters, in discussions with students --- seldom impart data or direct knowledge to the students. "Insight" and "enlightenment" are not a matter of memory or functions of language and mathematics. "Insight" and "enlightenment" is attainable by means of a formula or scrupulously following rules or directions. Instead, "insight" and "enlightenment" on the ability to adaptively think about individuals and the multiples, the local area, the global view, the solar community, the galactic constituents and the universe; orienting yourself to the conditions that present the "now." It is sometimes a need to find a wholly new way of making sense of the reality (U Yun Qin, ≈ 450 BCE). In the 17th Century, in a period of enlightenment, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz would come to call this the "Principle of Sufficient Reason" (PSR). You may not know or understand the progression or a reason for a specific event, but if it happened, then their was a chain of causality.

PSR is very applicable to the arguments presented about the Arab-Israeli Conflict.

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.

(COMMENT)

I. Questions to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Transjordan, Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon:

(a) Are armed elements of your armed forces or irregular forces sponsored by your Government now operating

(1) in Palestine;
(2) in areas (towns, cities, districts) of Palestine where the Jews are in the majority?​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

In its reply dated May 24 (S/775) the Arab Higher Committee stated in answer to question (a) that it exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine. Being composed of representatives of the different Arab political parties, it formed a coalition which expressed Arab public opinion in Palestine. The Arab Higher Committee concluded further that it therefore spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine, inasmuch as the Arabs were in the majority in all districts and sub-districts except that of Jaffa, in which Tel Aviv is located.

The Enlightenment: It cannot be the case that the All Palestine Government (APG) and the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) could simultaneously "exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine;" and that the AHC "spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine."
​

The reply of the Provisional Government of Israel (S/766) to the questions addressed to the "Jewish authorities in Palestine" was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations on May 22.
​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

​

In reply to questions (a) and (b) it was stated that the Provisional Government of Israel was actually exercising control of the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the General Assembly's resolution of November 29, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government of Israel was exercising control over certain parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel, parts which, with the notable exception of Jerusalem,

​

For Your Reference:

• 1947-48 Part 1: United Nations. Section 3: The Security Council. Chapter D: Political and security questions Beginning Page 439
• 1948-49 Title Page i The Yearbook of the United Nations
​

The Enlightenment:

∆ While your question may be interesting academically (only to a few), it applies no relevance to the reality as it was seen then by the Parties Involved. Clearly the APG was not a parties, but could be considered a limited constituency with no capacity.

Trying to argue this point is simply ridiculous. Even the APG itself was not real. That became obvious when the Egyptians dissolved the APG in 1959. Where was the right of self-determination then?

The right of self determination is the right of the people of the place. A state or government is not a requirement.

(COMMENT)

This is clearly an answer to a question, somewhere; but irrelevant to this discussion. The APG had no real constituency in the territory as a whole or in the sovereign control of Israel. The Arabs of Palestine were represented by the AHC.

"PART I.

"The consultations among the permanent members of the Security Council and informal communications with the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee, held since March 5, 1948, have developed the following facts regarding the situation with respect to Palestine:

"1. The Jewish Agency accepts the partition plan, considers it to be the irreducible minimum acceptable to the Jews, and insists upon the implementation of the plan without modification.

"2. The Arab Higher Committee rejects any solution based on partition in any form and considers that the only acceptable solution is the formation of one independent State for the whole of Palestine, whose constitution would be based on democratic principles and which would include adequate safeguards for minorities and the safety of the Holy Places.

"3. No modifications in the essentials of the partition plan are acceptable to the Jewish Agency, and no modifications would make the plan acceptable to the Arab Higher Committee.

"4. The Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee have indicated that the partition plan cannot be implemented by peaceful means under present conditions.

"5. The Mandatory Power has confirmed that a considerable number of incursions of illegal arms and armed elements into Palestine have occurred by land and sea.

"6. The gradual withdrawal of the military forces of the Mandatory Power will, in the absence of agreement, result in increasing violence and disorder in Palestine. Warfare of a guerrilla type grows more violent constantly.

"7. If the mandate is terminated prior to a peaceful solution of the problem, large-scale fighting between the two communities can be expected.
​

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee. The All-Palestine Government was not established by the Arab League until on 22 September 1948. "At its 200th meeting on 15 November, the First Committee decided, by a vote of 48 to none, with 5 abstentions, to grant a hearing to the Arab Higher Committee, in accordance with its request (A/C.1/335), to express the views of the Arabs of Palestine on the question of Palestine and on the report of the Mediator. The Committee, however, made no allusion to the credentials of the Higher Committee as representing the All-Palestine Government, as had been requested by the Higher Committee and the All-Palestine Government (A/C.1/339)." See UN Yearbook 1948-49 Part i, Section 3, Page 168)

Most Respectfully,
R

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee.

• Palestine Commission - Foreigners
• the Mandatory Power - Foreigners
• the Jewish Agency - Foreigners
• Arab Higher Committee - The only Palestinian body

So what happened to the only Palestinian representation?

When the Committee was outlawed in September 1937, six of its members were deported, its president Amin al-Husayni managed to escape arrest and went into exile in Beirut. Jamal al-Husayni escaped to Syria. Three other members were deported to the Seychelles, and other members moved into voluntary exile in neighbouring countries. Al-Hadi, who was out of the country at the time, was not allowed to return.

Arab Higher Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

And your response will be a bunch of crap that foreigners did.

You're rather selective in your cutting and pasting. From the wiki article:


On 26 September 1937, the Acting British District Commissioner of Galilee, Lewis Yelland Andrews, was assassinated in Nazareth. The next day Britain outlawed the Arab Higher Committee,[9] and began to arrest its members. On 1 October 1937, the National Bloc, the Reform Party and the Istiqlal Party were dissolved.[10] Yaqub al-Ghusayn, Al-Khalidi and Ahmed Hilmi Pasha were arrested and then deported.[10] Jamal al-Husayni escaped to Syria, as did Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni. Amin al-Husayni managed to escape arrest, but was removed from the presidency of the Supreme Muslim Council.[11] The Committee was banned by the Mandate administration and three members (and two other Palestinian leaders) were deported to the Seychelles and the others moved into voluntary exile in neighbouring countries.[12] Awni Abd al-Hadi, who was out of the country at the time, was not allowed to return. The National Defence Party, which had withdrawn from the AHC soon after its formation, was not outlawed,



Who was responsible for the murder of Commissioner of Galilee, Lewis Yelland Andrews? Was it heavily armed, radical Lutherans?

I don't know. It didn't say. Was it ever investigated?

You need to expand your horizons beyond selective cutting and pasting of wiki articles. Those radical Lutherans must be the culprits.

How you retreat in those islamo-dancing shoes...

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Great Philosophers and Zen Masters, in discussions with students --- seldom impart data or direct knowledge to the students. "Insight" and "enlightenment" are not a matter of memory or functions of language and mathematics. "Insight" and "enlightenment" is attainable by means of a formula or scrupulously following rules or directions. Instead, "insight" and "enlightenment" on the ability to adaptively think about individuals and the multiples, the local area, the global view, the solar community, the galactic constituents and the universe; orienting yourself to the conditions that present the "now." It is sometimes a need to find a wholly new way of making sense of the reality (U Yun Qin, ≈ 450 BCE). In the 17th Century, in a period of enlightenment, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz would come to call this the "Principle of Sufficient Reason" (PSR). You may not know or understand the progression or a reason for a specific event, but if it happened, then their was a chain of causality.

PSR is very applicable to the arguments presented about the Arab-Israeli Conflict.

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.

(COMMENT)

I. Questions to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Transjordan, Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon:

(a) Are armed elements of your armed forces or irregular forces sponsored by your Government now operating

(1) in Palestine;
(2) in areas (towns, cities, districts) of Palestine where the Jews are in the majority?​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

In its reply dated May 24 (S/775) the Arab Higher Committee stated in answer to question (a) that it exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine. Being composed of representatives of the different Arab political parties, it formed a coalition which expressed Arab public opinion in Palestine. The Arab Higher Committee concluded further that it therefore spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine, inasmuch as the Arabs were in the majority in all districts and sub-districts except that of Jaffa, in which Tel Aviv is located.

The Enlightenment: It cannot be the case that the All Palestine Government (APG) and the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) could simultaneously "exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine;" and that the AHC "spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine."
​

The reply of the Provisional Government of Israel (S/766) to the questions addressed to the "Jewish authorities in Palestine" was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations on May 22.
​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

​

In reply to questions (a) and (b) it was stated that the Provisional Government of Israel was actually exercising control of the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the General Assembly's resolution of November 29, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government of Israel was exercising control over certain parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel, parts which, with the notable exception of Jerusalem,

​

For Your Reference:

• 1947-48 Part 1: United Nations. Section 3: The Security Council. Chapter D: Political and security questions Beginning Page 439
• 1948-49 Title Page i The Yearbook of the United Nations
​

The Enlightenment:

∆ While your question may be interesting academically (only to a few), it applies no relevance to the reality as it was seen then by the Parties Involved. Clearly the APG was not a parties, but could be considered a limited constituency with no capacity.

Trying to argue this point is simply ridiculous. Even the APG itself was not real. That became obvious when the Egyptians dissolved the APG in 1959. Where was the right of self-determination then?

The right of self determination is the right of the people of the place. A state or government is not a requirement.

(COMMENT)

This is clearly an answer to a question, somewhere; but irrelevant to this discussion. The APG had no real constituency in the territory as a whole or in the sovereign control of Israel. The Arabs of Palestine were represented by the AHC.

"PART I.

"The consultations among the permanent members of the Security Council and informal communications with the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee, held since March 5, 1948, have developed the following facts regarding the situation with respect to Palestine:

"1. The Jewish Agency accepts the partition plan, considers it to be the irreducible minimum acceptable to the Jews, and insists upon the implementation of the plan without modification.

"2. The Arab Higher Committee rejects any solution based on partition in any form and considers that the only acceptable solution is the formation of one independent State for the whole of Palestine, whose constitution would be based on democratic principles and which would include adequate safeguards for minorities and the safety of the Holy Places.

"3. No modifications in the essentials of the partition plan are acceptable to the Jewish Agency, and no modifications would make the plan acceptable to the Arab Higher Committee.

"4. The Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee have indicated that the partition plan cannot be implemented by peaceful means under present conditions.

"5. The Mandatory Power has confirmed that a considerable number of incursions of illegal arms and armed elements into Palestine have occurred by land and sea.

"6. The gradual withdrawal of the military forces of the Mandatory Power will, in the absence of agreement, result in increasing violence and disorder in Palestine. Warfare of a guerrilla type grows more violent constantly.

"7. If the mandate is terminated prior to a peaceful solution of the problem, large-scale fighting between the two communities can be expected.
​

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee. The All-Palestine Government was not established by the Arab League until on 22 September 1948. "At its 200th meeting on 15 November, the First Committee decided, by a vote of 48 to none, with 5 abstentions, to grant a hearing to the Arab Higher Committee, in accordance with its request (A/C.1/335), to express the views of the Arabs of Palestine on the question of Palestine and on the report of the Mediator. The Committee, however, made no allusion to the credentials of the Higher Committee as representing the All-Palestine Government, as had been requested by the Higher Committee and the All-Palestine Government (A/C.1/339)." See UN Yearbook 1948-49 Part i, Section 3, Page 168)

Most Respectfully,
R

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.​

Nice smokescreen.

You ducked my post.

"The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I believe you will find that the Israelis have shown it to be bogus.

You might be oxygen deprived from inhaling all that smoke.

I have heard the Israeli "say so" a gazillion times but nothing showing that to be true.

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Great Philosophers and Zen Masters, in discussions with students --- seldom impart data or direct knowledge to the students. "Insight" and "enlightenment" are not a matter of memory or functions of language and mathematics. "Insight" and "enlightenment" is attainable by means of a formula or scrupulously following rules or directions. Instead, "insight" and "enlightenment" on the ability to adaptively think about individuals and the multiples, the local area, the global view, the solar community, the galactic constituents and the universe; orienting yourself to the conditions that present the "now." It is sometimes a need to find a wholly new way of making sense of the reality (U Yun Qin, ≈ 450 BCE). In the 17th Century, in a period of enlightenment, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz would come to call this the "Principle of Sufficient Reason" (PSR). You may not know or understand the progression or a reason for a specific event, but if it happened, then their was a chain of causality.

PSR is very applicable to the arguments presented about the Arab-Israeli Conflict.

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.

(COMMENT)

I. Questions to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Transjordan, Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon:

(a) Are armed elements of your armed forces or irregular forces sponsored by your Government now operating

(1) in Palestine;
(2) in areas (towns, cities, districts) of Palestine where the Jews are in the majority?​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

In its reply dated May 24 (S/775) the Arab Higher Committee stated in answer to question (a) that it exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine. Being composed of representatives of the different Arab political parties, it formed a coalition which expressed Arab public opinion in Palestine. The Arab Higher Committee concluded further that it therefore spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine, inasmuch as the Arabs were in the majority in all districts and sub-districts except that of Jaffa, in which Tel Aviv is located.

The Enlightenment: It cannot be the case that the All Palestine Government (APG) and the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) could simultaneously "exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine;" and that the AHC "spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine."
​

The reply of the Provisional Government of Israel (S/766) to the questions addressed to the "Jewish authorities in Palestine" was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations on May 22.
​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

​

In reply to questions (a) and (b) it was stated that the Provisional Government of Israel was actually exercising control of the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the General Assembly's resolution of November 29, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government of Israel was exercising control over certain parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel, parts which, with the notable exception of Jerusalem,

​

For Your Reference:

• 1947-48 Part 1: United Nations. Section 3: The Security Council. Chapter D: Political and security questions Beginning Page 439
• 1948-49 Title Page i The Yearbook of the United Nations
​

The Enlightenment:

∆ While your question may be interesting academically (only to a few), it applies no relevance to the reality as it was seen then by the Parties Involved. Clearly the APG was not a parties, but could be considered a limited constituency with no capacity.

Trying to argue this point is simply ridiculous. Even the APG itself was not real. That became obvious when the Egyptians dissolved the APG in 1959. Where was the right of self-determination then?

The right of self determination is the right of the people of the place. A state or government is not a requirement.

(COMMENT)

This is clearly an answer to a question, somewhere; but irrelevant to this discussion. The APG had no real constituency in the territory as a whole or in the sovereign control of Israel. The Arabs of Palestine were represented by the AHC.

"PART I.

"The consultations among the permanent members of the Security Council and informal communications with the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee, held since March 5, 1948, have developed the following facts regarding the situation with respect to Palestine:

"1. The Jewish Agency accepts the partition plan, considers it to be the irreducible minimum acceptable to the Jews, and insists upon the implementation of the plan without modification.

"2. The Arab Higher Committee rejects any solution based on partition in any form and considers that the only acceptable solution is the formation of one independent State for the whole of Palestine, whose constitution would be based on democratic principles and which would include adequate safeguards for minorities and the safety of the Holy Places.

"3. No modifications in the essentials of the partition plan are acceptable to the Jewish Agency, and no modifications would make the plan acceptable to the Arab Higher Committee.

"4. The Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee have indicated that the partition plan cannot be implemented by peaceful means under present conditions.

"5. The Mandatory Power has confirmed that a considerable number of incursions of illegal arms and armed elements into Palestine have occurred by land and sea.

"6. The gradual withdrawal of the military forces of the Mandatory Power will, in the absence of agreement, result in increasing violence and disorder in Palestine. Warfare of a guerrilla type grows more violent constantly.

"7. If the mandate is terminated prior to a peaceful solution of the problem, large-scale fighting between the two communities can be expected.
​

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee. The All-Palestine Government was not established by the Arab League until on 22 September 1948. "At its 200th meeting on 15 November, the First Committee decided, by a vote of 48 to none, with 5 abstentions, to grant a hearing to the Arab Higher Committee, in accordance with its request (A/C.1/335), to express the views of the Arabs of Palestine on the question of Palestine and on the report of the Mediator. The Committee, however, made no allusion to the credentials of the Higher Committee as representing the All-Palestine Government, as had been requested by the Higher Committee and the All-Palestine Government (A/C.1/339)." See UN Yearbook 1948-49 Part i, Section 3, Page 168)

Most Respectfully,
R

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.​

Nice smokescreen.

You ducked my post.

"The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I believe you will find that the Israelis have shown it to be bogus.

You might be oxygen deprived from inhaling all that smoke.

I have heard the Israeli "say so" a gazillion times but nothing showing that to be true.

Your silly conspiracy theories are a hoot.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Great Philosophers and Zen Masters, in discussions with students --- seldom impart data or direct knowledge to the students. "Insight" and "enlightenment" are not a matter of memory or functions of language and mathematics. "Insight" and "enlightenment" is attainable by means of a formula or scrupulously following rules or directions. Instead, "insight" and "enlightenment" on the ability to adaptively think about individuals and the multiples, the local area, the global view, the solar community, the galactic constituents and the universe; orienting yourself to the conditions that present the "now." It is sometimes a need to find a wholly new way of making sense of the reality (U Yun Qin, ≈ 450 BCE). In the 17th Century, in a period of enlightenment, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz would come to call this the "Principle of Sufficient Reason" (PSR). You may not know or understand the progression or a reason for a specific event, but if it happened, then their was a chain of causality.

PSR is very applicable to the arguments presented about the Arab-Israeli Conflict.

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.

(COMMENT)

I. Questions to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Transjordan, Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon:

(a) Are armed elements of your armed forces or irregular forces sponsored by your Government now operating

(1) in Palestine;
(2) in areas (towns, cities, districts) of Palestine where the Jews are in the majority?​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

In its reply dated May 24 (S/775) the Arab Higher Committee stated in answer to question (a) that it exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine. Being composed of representatives of the different Arab political parties, it formed a coalition which expressed Arab public opinion in Palestine. The Arab Higher Committee concluded further that it therefore spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine, inasmuch as the Arabs were in the majority in all districts and sub-districts except that of Jaffa, in which Tel Aviv is located.

The Enlightenment: It cannot be the case that the All Palestine Government (APG) and the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) could simultaneously "exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine;" and that the AHC "spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine."
​

The reply of the Provisional Government of Israel (S/766) to the questions addressed to the "Jewish authorities in Palestine" was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations on May 22.
​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

​

In reply to questions (a) and (b) it was stated that the Provisional Government of Israel was actually exercising control of the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the General Assembly's resolution of November 29, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government of Israel was exercising control over certain parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel, parts which, with the notable exception of Jerusalem,

​

For Your Reference:

• 1947-48 Part 1: United Nations. Section 3: The Security Council. Chapter D: Political and security questions Beginning Page 439
• 1948-49 Title Page i The Yearbook of the United Nations
​

The Enlightenment:

∆ While your question may be interesting academically (only to a few), it applies no relevance to the reality as it was seen then by the Parties Involved. Clearly the APG was not a parties, but could be considered a limited constituency with no capacity.

The right of self determination is the right of the people of the place. A state or government is not a requirement.

(COMMENT)

This is clearly an answer to a question, somewhere; but irrelevant to this discussion. The APG had no real constituency in the territory as a whole or in the sovereign control of Israel. The Arabs of Palestine were represented by the AHC.

"PART I.

"The consultations among the permanent members of the Security Council and informal communications with the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee, held since March 5, 1948, have developed the following facts regarding the situation with respect to Palestine:

"1. The Jewish Agency accepts the partition plan, considers it to be the irreducible minimum acceptable to the Jews, and insists upon the implementation of the plan without modification.

"2. The Arab Higher Committee rejects any solution based on partition in any form and considers that the only acceptable solution is the formation of one independent State for the whole of Palestine, whose constitution would be based on democratic principles and which would include adequate safeguards for minorities and the safety of the Holy Places.

"3. No modifications in the essentials of the partition plan are acceptable to the Jewish Agency, and no modifications would make the plan acceptable to the Arab Higher Committee.

"4. The Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee have indicated that the partition plan cannot be implemented by peaceful means under present conditions.

"5. The Mandatory Power has confirmed that a considerable number of incursions of illegal arms and armed elements into Palestine have occurred by land and sea.

"6. The gradual withdrawal of the military forces of the Mandatory Power will, in the absence of agreement, result in increasing violence and disorder in Palestine. Warfare of a guerrilla type grows more violent constantly.

"7. If the mandate is terminated prior to a peaceful solution of the problem, large-scale fighting between the two communities can be expected.
​

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee. The All-Palestine Government was not established by the Arab League until on 22 September 1948. "At its 200th meeting on 15 November, the First Committee decided, by a vote of 48 to none, with 5 abstentions, to grant a hearing to the Arab Higher Committee, in accordance with its request (A/C.1/335), to express the views of the Arabs of Palestine on the question of Palestine and on the report of the Mediator. The Committee, however, made no allusion to the credentials of the Higher Committee as representing the All-Palestine Government, as had been requested by the Higher Committee and the All-Palestine Government (A/C.1/339)." See UN Yearbook 1948-49 Part i, Section 3, Page 168)

Most Respectfully,
R

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.​

Nice smokescreen.

You ducked my post.

"The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I believe you will find that the Israelis have shown it to be bogus.

You might be oxygen deprived from inhaling all that smoke.

I have heard the Israeli "say so" a gazillion times but nothing showing that to be true.

Your silly conspiracy theories are a hoot.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Through the entire Mandate Period, the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) or some variation on the theme (the Arab Delegation) represented theArab Palestinian interests. It is only after the bid to destroy the Jewish National Home in May 1948, that the some various failed factions of the Arab Palestinians jump-up and claim misrepresentation.

This is merely just another way for the Arab Palestinian to adorn themselves with the perpetual victim mask, and blame someone else; even themselves disguised as someone else, for their continuous failures.

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee. The All-Palestine Government was not established by the Arab League until on 22 September 1948.

So what happened to the only Palestinian representation?

When the Committee was outlawed in September 1937, six of its members were deported, its president Amin al-Husayni managed to escape arrest and went into exile in Beirut. Jamal al-Husayni escaped to Syria. Three other members were deported to the Seychelles, and other members moved into voluntary exile in neighbouring countries. Al-Hadi, who was out of the country at the time, was not allowed to return.

Arab Higher Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

And your response will be a bunch of crap that foreigners did.

(COMMENT)

This idea of "foreigners" was nothing new. This Xenophobic idea, and the Palestine Arab Congress (PAC), dates back a time when the area was under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA). It should also be pointed out that even though you complain about the "bunch of crap that foreigners did," you turn around and cite the Third PAC and the call "for Palestine to be part of the independent Arab state promised in the McMahon–Hussein Correspondence." (Notice that both British High Commissioner and the Sharif of Mecca are "foreigners.") And the independent Arab State promised to was to become known as the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and ruled by Crown Prince Abdullah. However a totally separate agreement between two of the Principle Allied Powers, known as the Sykes-Picot Agreement, specified that most of Palestine was to be entrusted to an international administration. The agreement clearly contradicted the promises made to Sharif Hussein of Mecca. But again, none of this revolves around some specific population known as the Arabs of Palestine.

While Jamal al-Husayn was eventually arrested by the British in 1941 and exiled to Southern Rhodesia (AKA Zimbabwe), he did return to become the Foreign Minister of the Egyptian created All-Palestine Government (APG). You also mention "Amin al-Husayni [more commonly known as Mohammed Amin al-Husseini (one-time Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and once a WWI enemy Ottoman Army Artillery Officer; and WWII NAZI Collaborator)] who became the 'Chairman of the Arab Higher Executive' (AHE) and the Egyptian installed President of the APG, was a prominently associated antisemitic Riots from 1928 on and various hostile Palestinian nationalist groups.

There is little question that we could argue the merits of foreign connections the various Arabs of Palestine had with the "Allied Powers" (foreigners as you would have it). But just remember, it was the "foreigners" (the Allied Powers) that were the recipients of all title and rights to the territory that was to come under the Mandate for Palestine.

(SIDEBAR)

Yes the original AHC was outlawed in 1937. But the Arab League reconstituted it immediately after the end of WWII. It was the AHC of 1945 that rejected the UN Partition Plan in 1948, that reaffirmed the Arabs of Palestine could not recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising or derived therefrom, and declared the creation of any Jewish state in an Arab territory is more than invasion or aggression; and made the solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

This is representative of the contributions to the discussion he makes.

(COMMENT)

His strategy is to twist-up the issues such that the question is nonsensical. Then sits back and makes fun of any answer provided.

v/r
R

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, Hollie, et al,

This is representative of the contributions to the discussion he makes.

(COMMENT)

His strategy is to twist-up the issues such that the question is nonsensical. Then sits back and makes fun of any answer provided.

v/r
R

I had suggested to P F Tinmore that he do a bit of research on the events surrounding the murder of Lewis Andrews. However, I've come to expect very little from him in that regard.

AUSTRALIAN SHOTDEAD. - PALESTINE CRIME. Saved His Colleague. JERUSALEM, Sept. 27. - The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW : 1842 - 1954) - 28 Sep 1937

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Through the entire Mandate Period, the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) or some variation on the theme (the Arab Delegation) represented theArab Palestinian interests. It is only after the bid to destroy the Jewish National Home in May 1948, that the some various failed factions of the Arab Palestinians jump-up and claim misrepresentation.

This is merely just another way for the Arab Palestinian to adorn themselves with the perpetual victim mask, and blame someone else; even themselves disguised as someone else, for their continuous failures.

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee. The All-Palestine Government was not established by the Arab League until on 22 September 1948.

So what happened to the only Palestinian representation?

When the Committee was outlawed in September 1937, six of its members were deported, its president Amin al-Husayni managed to escape arrest and went into exile in Beirut. Jamal al-Husayni escaped to Syria. Three other members were deported to the Seychelles, and other members moved into voluntary exile in neighbouring countries. Al-Hadi, who was out of the country at the time, was not allowed to return.

Arab Higher Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

And your response will be a bunch of crap that foreigners did.

(COMMENT)

This idea of "foreigners" was nothing new. This Xenophobic idea, and the Palestine Arab Congress (PAC), dates back a time when the area was under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA). It should also be pointed out that even though you complain about the "bunch of crap that foreigners did," you turn around and cite the Third PAC and the call "for Palestine to be part of the independent Arab state promised in the McMahon–Hussein Correspondence." (Notice that both British High Commissioner and the Sharif of Mecca are "foreigners.") And the independent Arab State promised to was to become known as the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and ruled by Crown Prince Abdullah. However a totally separate agreement between two of the Principle Allied Powers, known as the Sykes-Picot Agreement, specified that most of Palestine was to be entrusted to an international administration. The agreement clearly contradicted the promises made to Sharif Hussein of Mecca. But again, none of this revolves around some specific population known as the Arabs of Palestine.

While Jamal al-Husayn was eventually arrested by the British in 1941 and exiled to Southern Rhodesia (AKA Zimbabwe), he did return to become the Foreign Minister of the Egyptian created All-Palestine Government (APG). You also mention "Amin al-Husayni [more commonly known as Mohammed Amin al-Husseini (one-time Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and once a WWI enemy Ottoman Army Artillery Officer; and WWII NAZI Collaborator)] who became the 'Chairman of the Arab Higher Executive' (AHE) and the Egyptian installed President of the APG, was a prominently associated antisemitic Riots from 1928 on and various hostile Palestinian nationalist groups.

There is little question that we could argue the merits of foreign connections the various Arabs of Palestine had with the "Allied Powers" (foreigners as you would have it). But just remember, it was the "foreigners" (the Allied Powers) that were the recipients of all title and rights to the territory that was to come under the Mandate for Palestine.

(SIDEBAR)

Yes the original AHC was outlawed in 1937. But the Arab League reconstituted it immediately after the end of WWII. It was the AHC of 1945 that rejected the UN Partition Plan in 1948, that reaffirmed the Arabs of Palestine could not recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising or derived therefrom, and declared the creation of any Jewish state in an Arab territory is more than invasion or aggression; and made the solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians have the right to defend their country.

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Through the entire Mandate Period, the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) or some variation on the theme (the Arab Delegation) represented theArab Palestinian interests. It is only after the bid to destroy the Jewish National Home in May 1948, that the some various failed factions of the Arab Palestinians jump-up and claim misrepresentation.

This is merely just another way for the Arab Palestinian to adorn themselves with the perpetual victim mask, and blame someone else; even themselves disguised as someone else, for their continuous failures.

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee. The All-Palestine Government was not established by the Arab League until on 22 September 1948.

So what happened to the only Palestinian representation?

When the Committee was outlawed in September 1937, six of its members were deported, its president Amin al-Husayni managed to escape arrest and went into exile in Beirut. Jamal al-Husayni escaped to Syria. Three other members were deported to the Seychelles, and other members moved into voluntary exile in neighbouring countries. Al-Hadi, who was out of the country at the time, was not allowed to return.

Arab Higher Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

And your response will be a bunch of crap that foreigners did.

(COMMENT)

This idea of "foreigners" was nothing new. This Xenophobic idea, and the Palestine Arab Congress (PAC), dates back a time when the area was under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA). It should also be pointed out that even though you complain about the "bunch of crap that foreigners did," you turn around and cite the Third PAC and the call "for Palestine to be part of the independent Arab state promised in the McMahon–Hussein Correspondence." (Notice that both British High Commissioner and the Sharif of Mecca are "foreigners.") And the independent Arab State promised to was to become known as the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and ruled by Crown Prince Abdullah. However a totally separate agreement between two of the Principle Allied Powers, known as the Sykes-Picot Agreement, specified that most of Palestine was to be entrusted to an international administration. The agreement clearly contradicted the promises made to Sharif Hussein of Mecca. But again, none of this revolves around some specific population known as the Arabs of Palestine.

While Jamal al-Husayn was eventually arrested by the British in 1941 and exiled to Southern Rhodesia (AKA Zimbabwe), he did return to become the Foreign Minister of the Egyptian created All-Palestine Government (APG). You also mention "Amin al-Husayni [more commonly known as Mohammed Amin al-Husseini (one-time Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and once a WWI enemy Ottoman Army Artillery Officer; and WWII NAZI Collaborator)] who became the 'Chairman of the Arab Higher Executive' (AHE) and the Egyptian installed President of the APG, was a prominently associated antisemitic Riots from 1928 on and various hostile Palestinian nationalist groups.

There is little question that we could argue the merits of foreign connections the various Arabs of Palestine had with the "Allied Powers" (foreigners as you would have it). But just remember, it was the "foreigners" (the Allied Powers) that were the recipients of all title and rights to the territory that was to come under the Mandate for Palestine.

(SIDEBAR)

Yes the original AHC was outlawed in 1937. But the Arab League reconstituted it immediately after the end of WWII. It was the AHC of 1945 that rejected the UN Partition Plan in 1948, that reaffirmed the Arabs of Palestine could not recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising or derived therefrom, and declared the creation of any Jewish state in an Arab territory is more than invasion or aggression; and made the solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians have the right to defend their country.

It's an odd notion that "defending their (non-existent) country centers around Islamic terrorists attempting to enforce an ancient theocratic code and more recent "Charter" that calls for the murder of Jews.

Explain to us how committing acts of war directed at a sovereign nation is "defending their country".

 

[RoccoR]

Hollie, et al,

I'm not sure that the pro-Arab Palestinians would actually find this objectionable.

I had suggested to P F Tinmore that he do a bit of research on the events surrounding the murder of Lewis Andrews. However, I've come to expect very little from him in that regard.

AUSTRALIAN SHOTDEAD. - PALESTINE CRIME. Saved His Colleague. JERUSALEM, Sept. 27. - The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW : 1842 - 1954) - 28 Sep 1937

(COMMENT)

I find it hard to believe that the pro-Arab Palestinians do not see a pattern of unacceptable behaviors by their Islamic Political Leaders. Whether they are involved in the British District Commissioner, the assassination of a King while at prayer in the al-Aqsa Mosque, or the murder of a US Senator; the Arab Palestinians always find someone else to blame.

v/r
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Of course they do; if they had a country. But former Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic was not "their country."

The Palestinians have the right to defend their country.

(COMMENT)

Where and when did they have sovereignty and independence? It certainly was not a matter of being an inhabitant. It certainly did not have anything to do with the treaty: as the title and rights where placed in the hands of the Allied Powers.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Great Philosophers and Zen Masters, in discussions with students --- seldom impart data or direct knowledge to the students. "Insight" and "enlightenment" are not a matter of memory or functions of language and mathematics. "Insight" and "enlightenment" is attainable by means of a formula or scrupulously following rules or directions. Instead, "insight" and "enlightenment" on the ability to adaptively think about individuals and the multiples, the local area, the global view, the solar community, the galactic constituents and the universe; orienting yourself to the conditions that present the "now." It is sometimes a need to find a wholly new way of making sense of the reality (U Yun Qin, ≈ 450 BCE). In the 17th Century, in a period of enlightenment, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz would come to call this the "Principle of Sufficient Reason" (PSR). You may not know or understand the progression or a reason for a specific event, but if it happened, then their was a chain of causality.

PSR is very applicable to the arguments presented about the Arab-Israeli Conflict.

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.

(COMMENT)

I. Questions to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Transjordan, Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon:

(a) Are armed elements of your armed forces or irregular forces sponsored by your Government now operating

(1) in Palestine;
(2) in areas (towns, cities, districts) of Palestine where the Jews are in the majority?​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

In its reply dated May 24 (S/775) the Arab Higher Committee stated in answer to question (a) that it exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine. Being composed of representatives of the different Arab political parties, it formed a coalition which expressed Arab public opinion in Palestine. The Arab Higher Committee concluded further that it therefore spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine, inasmuch as the Arabs were in the majority in all districts and sub-districts except that of Jaffa, in which Tel Aviv is located.

The Enlightenment: It cannot be the case that the All Palestine Government (APG) and the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) could simultaneously "exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine;" and that the AHC "spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine."
​

The reply of the Provisional Government of Israel (S/766) to the questions addressed to the "Jewish authorities in Palestine" was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations on May 22.
​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

​

In reply to questions (a) and (b) it was stated that the Provisional Government of Israel was actually exercising control of the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the General Assembly's resolution of November 29, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government of Israel was exercising control over certain parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel, parts which, with the notable exception of Jerusalem,

​

For Your Reference:

• 1947-48 Part 1: United Nations. Section 3: The Security Council. Chapter D: Political and security questions Beginning Page 439
• 1948-49 Title Page i The Yearbook of the United Nations
​

The Enlightenment:

∆ While your question may be interesting academically (only to a few), it applies no relevance to the reality as it was seen then by the Parties Involved. Clearly the APG was not a parties, but could be considered a limited constituency with no capacity.

Trying to argue this point is simply ridiculous. Even the APG itself was not real. That became obvious when the Egyptians dissolved the APG in 1959. Where was the right of self-determination then?

The right of self determination is the right of the people of the place. A state or government is not a requirement.

(COMMENT)

This is clearly an answer to a question, somewhere; but irrelevant to this discussion. The APG had no real constituency in the territory as a whole or in the sovereign control of Israel. The Arabs of Palestine were represented by the AHC.

"PART I.

"The consultations among the permanent members of the Security Council and informal communications with the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee, held since March 5, 1948, have developed the following facts regarding the situation with respect to Palestine:

"1. The Jewish Agency accepts the partition plan, considers it to be the irreducible minimum acceptable to the Jews, and insists upon the implementation of the plan without modification.

"2. The Arab Higher Committee rejects any solution based on partition in any form and considers that the only acceptable solution is the formation of one independent State for the whole of Palestine, whose constitution would be based on democratic principles and which would include adequate safeguards for minorities and the safety of the Holy Places.

"3. No modifications in the essentials of the partition plan are acceptable to the Jewish Agency, and no modifications would make the plan acceptable to the Arab Higher Committee.

"4. The Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee have indicated that the partition plan cannot be implemented by peaceful means under present conditions.

"5. The Mandatory Power has confirmed that a considerable number of incursions of illegal arms and armed elements into Palestine have occurred by land and sea.

"6. The gradual withdrawal of the military forces of the Mandatory Power will, in the absence of agreement, result in increasing violence and disorder in Palestine. Warfare of a guerrilla type grows more violent constantly.

"7. If the mandate is terminated prior to a peaceful solution of the problem, large-scale fighting between the two communities can be expected.
​

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee. The All-Palestine Government was not established by the Arab League until on 22 September 1948. "At its 200th meeting on 15 November, the First Committee decided, by a vote of 48 to none, with 5 abstentions, to grant a hearing to the Arab Higher Committee, in accordance with its request (A/C.1/335), to express the views of the Arabs of Palestine on the question of Palestine and on the report of the Mediator. The Committee, however, made no allusion to the credentials of the Higher Committee as representing the All-Palestine Government, as had been requested by the Higher Committee and the All-Palestine Government (A/C.1/339)." See UN Yearbook 1948-49 Part i, Section 3, Page 168)

Most Respectfully,
R

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee.

• Palestine Commission - Foreigners
• the Mandatory Power - Foreigners
• the Jewish Agency - Foreigners
• Arab Higher Committee - The only Palestinian body

So what happened to the only Palestinian representation?

When the Committee was outlawed in September 1937, six of its members were deported, its president Amin al-Husayni managed to escape arrest and went into exile in Beirut. Jamal al-Husayni escaped to Syria. Three other members were deported to the Seychelles, and other members moved into voluntary exile in neighbouring countries. Al-Hadi, who was out of the country at the time, was not allowed to return.

Arab Higher Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

And your response will be a bunch of crap that foreigners did.

How can arab muslims from Egypt, and muslims from pakistan be palestinians ?

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Great Philosophers and Zen Masters, in discussions with students --- seldom impart data or direct knowledge to the students. "Insight" and "enlightenment" are not a matter of memory or functions of language and mathematics. "Insight" and "enlightenment" is attainable by means of a formula or scrupulously following rules or directions. Instead, "insight" and "enlightenment" on the ability to adaptively think about individuals and the multiples, the local area, the global view, the solar community, the galactic constituents and the universe; orienting yourself to the conditions that present the "now." It is sometimes a need to find a wholly new way of making sense of the reality (U Yun Qin, ≈ 450 BCE). In the 17th Century, in a period of enlightenment, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz would come to call this the "Principle of Sufficient Reason" (PSR). You may not know or understand the progression or a reason for a specific event, but if it happened, then their was a chain of causality.

PSR is very applicable to the arguments presented about the Arab-Israeli Conflict.

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.

(COMMENT)

I. Questions to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Transjordan, Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon:

(a) Are armed elements of your armed forces or irregular forces sponsored by your Government now operating

(1) in Palestine;
(2) in areas (towns, cities, districts) of Palestine where the Jews are in the majority?​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

In its reply dated May 24 (S/775) the Arab Higher Committee stated in answer to question (a) that it exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine. Being composed of representatives of the different Arab political parties, it formed a coalition which expressed Arab public opinion in Palestine. The Arab Higher Committee concluded further that it therefore spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine, inasmuch as the Arabs were in the majority in all districts and sub-districts except that of Jaffa, in which Tel Aviv is located.

The Enlightenment: It cannot be the case that the All Palestine Government (APG) and the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) could simultaneously "exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine;" and that the AHC "spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine."
​

The reply of the Provisional Government of Israel (S/766) to the questions addressed to the "Jewish authorities in Palestine" was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations on May 22.
​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

​

In reply to questions (a) and (b) it was stated that the Provisional Government of Israel was actually exercising control of the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the General Assembly's resolution of November 29, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government of Israel was exercising control over certain parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel, parts which, with the notable exception of Jerusalem,

​

For Your Reference:

• 1947-48 Part 1: United Nations. Section 3: The Security Council. Chapter D: Political and security questions Beginning Page 439
• 1948-49 Title Page i The Yearbook of the United Nations
​

The Enlightenment:

∆ While your question may be interesting academically (only to a few), it applies no relevance to the reality as it was seen then by the Parties Involved. Clearly the APG was not a parties, but could be considered a limited constituency with no capacity.

Trying to argue this point is simply ridiculous. Even the APG itself was not real. That became obvious when the Egyptians dissolved the APG in 1959. Where was the right of self-determination then?

The right of self determination is the right of the people of the place. A state or government is not a requirement.

(COMMENT)

This is clearly an answer to a question, somewhere; but irrelevant to this discussion. The APG had no real constituency in the territory as a whole or in the sovereign control of Israel. The Arabs of Palestine were represented by the AHC.

"PART I.

"The consultations among the permanent members of the Security Council and informal communications with the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee, held since March 5, 1948, have developed the following facts regarding the situation with respect to Palestine:

"1. The Jewish Agency accepts the partition plan, considers it to be the irreducible minimum acceptable to the Jews, and insists upon the implementation of the plan without modification.

"2. The Arab Higher Committee rejects any solution based on partition in any form and considers that the only acceptable solution is the formation of one independent State for the whole of Palestine, whose constitution would be based on democratic principles and which would include adequate safeguards for minorities and the safety of the Holy Places.

"3. No modifications in the essentials of the partition plan are acceptable to the Jewish Agency, and no modifications would make the plan acceptable to the Arab Higher Committee.

"4. The Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee have indicated that the partition plan cannot be implemented by peaceful means under present conditions.

"5. The Mandatory Power has confirmed that a considerable number of incursions of illegal arms and armed elements into Palestine have occurred by land and sea.

"6. The gradual withdrawal of the military forces of the Mandatory Power will, in the absence of agreement, result in increasing violence and disorder in Palestine. Warfare of a guerrilla type grows more violent constantly.

"7. If the mandate is terminated prior to a peaceful solution of the problem, large-scale fighting between the two communities can be expected.
​

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee. The All-Palestine Government was not established by the Arab League until on 22 September 1948. "At its 200th meeting on 15 November, the First Committee decided, by a vote of 48 to none, with 5 abstentions, to grant a hearing to the Arab Higher Committee, in accordance with its request (A/C.1/335), to express the views of the Arabs of Palestine on the question of Palestine and on the report of the Mediator. The Committee, however, made no allusion to the credentials of the Higher Committee as representing the All-Palestine Government, as had been requested by the Higher Committee and the All-Palestine Government (A/C.1/339)." See UN Yearbook 1948-49 Part i, Section 3, Page 168)

Most Respectfully,
R

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.​

Nice smokescreen.

You ducked my post.

No you ducked the answer because it was not the one you wanted to see

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Great Philosophers and Zen Masters, in discussions with students --- seldom impart data or direct knowledge to the students. "Insight" and "enlightenment" are not a matter of memory or functions of language and mathematics. "Insight" and "enlightenment" is attainable by means of a formula or scrupulously following rules or directions. Instead, "insight" and "enlightenment" on the ability to adaptively think about individuals and the multiples, the local area, the global view, the solar community, the galactic constituents and the universe; orienting yourself to the conditions that present the "now." It is sometimes a need to find a wholly new way of making sense of the reality (U Yun Qin, ≈ 450 BCE). In the 17th Century, in a period of enlightenment, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz would come to call this the "Principle of Sufficient Reason" (PSR). You may not know or understand the progression or a reason for a specific event, but if it happened, then their was a chain of causality.

PSR is very applicable to the arguments presented about the Arab-Israeli Conflict.

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.

(COMMENT)

I. Questions to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Transjordan, Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon:

(a) Are armed elements of your armed forces or irregular forces sponsored by your Government now operating

(1) in Palestine;
(2) in areas (towns, cities, districts) of Palestine where the Jews are in the majority?​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

In its reply dated May 24 (S/775) the Arab Higher Committee stated in answer to question (a) that it exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine. Being composed of representatives of the different Arab political parties, it formed a coalition which expressed Arab public opinion in Palestine. The Arab Higher Committee concluded further that it therefore spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine, inasmuch as the Arabs were in the majority in all districts and sub-districts except that of Jaffa, in which Tel Aviv is located.

The Enlightenment: It cannot be the case that the All Palestine Government (APG) and the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) could simultaneously "exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine;" and that the AHC "spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine."
​

The reply of the Provisional Government of Israel (S/766) to the questions addressed to the "Jewish authorities in Palestine" was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations on May 22.
​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

​

In reply to questions (a) and (b) it was stated that the Provisional Government of Israel was actually exercising control of the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the General Assembly's resolution of November 29, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government of Israel was exercising control over certain parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel, parts which, with the notable exception of Jerusalem,

​

For Your Reference:

• 1947-48 Part 1: United Nations. Section 3: The Security Council. Chapter D: Political and security questions Beginning Page 439
• 1948-49 Title Page i The Yearbook of the United Nations
​

The Enlightenment:

∆ While your question may be interesting academically (only to a few), it applies no relevance to the reality as it was seen then by the Parties Involved. Clearly the APG was not a parties, but could be considered a limited constituency with no capacity.

Trying to argue this point is simply ridiculous. Even the APG itself was not real. That became obvious when the Egyptians dissolved the APG in 1959. Where was the right of self-determination then?

The right of self determination is the right of the people of the place. A state or government is not a requirement.

(COMMENT)

This is clearly an answer to a question, somewhere; but irrelevant to this discussion. The APG had no real constituency in the territory as a whole or in the sovereign control of Israel. The Arabs of Palestine were represented by the AHC.

"PART I.

"The consultations among the permanent members of the Security Council and informal communications with the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee, held since March 5, 1948, have developed the following facts regarding the situation with respect to Palestine:

"1. The Jewish Agency accepts the partition plan, considers it to be the irreducible minimum acceptable to the Jews, and insists upon the implementation of the plan without modification.

"2. The Arab Higher Committee rejects any solution based on partition in any form and considers that the only acceptable solution is the formation of one independent State for the whole of Palestine, whose constitution would be based on democratic principles and which would include adequate safeguards for minorities and the safety of the Holy Places.

"3. No modifications in the essentials of the partition plan are acceptable to the Jewish Agency, and no modifications would make the plan acceptable to the Arab Higher Committee.

"4. The Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee have indicated that the partition plan cannot be implemented by peaceful means under present conditions.

"5. The Mandatory Power has confirmed that a considerable number of incursions of illegal arms and armed elements into Palestine have occurred by land and sea.

"6. The gradual withdrawal of the military forces of the Mandatory Power will, in the absence of agreement, result in increasing violence and disorder in Palestine. Warfare of a guerrilla type grows more violent constantly.

"7. If the mandate is terminated prior to a peaceful solution of the problem, large-scale fighting between the two communities can be expected.
​

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee. The All-Palestine Government was not established by the Arab League until on 22 September 1948. "At its 200th meeting on 15 November, the First Committee decided, by a vote of 48 to none, with 5 abstentions, to grant a hearing to the Arab Higher Committee, in accordance with its request (A/C.1/335), to express the views of the Arabs of Palestine on the question of Palestine and on the report of the Mediator. The Committee, however, made no allusion to the credentials of the Higher Committee as representing the All-Palestine Government, as had been requested by the Higher Committee and the All-Palestine Government (A/C.1/339)." See UN Yearbook 1948-49 Part i, Section 3, Page 168)

Most Respectfully,
R

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee.

• Palestine Commission - Foreigners
• the Mandatory Power - Foreigners
• the Jewish Agency - Foreigners
• Arab Higher Committee - The only Palestinian body

So what happened to the only Palestinian representation?

When the Committee was outlawed in September 1937, six of its members were deported, its president Amin al-Husayni managed to escape arrest and went into exile in Beirut. Jamal al-Husayni escaped to Syria. Three other members were deported to the Seychelles, and other members moved into voluntary exile in neighbouring countries. Al-Hadi, who was out of the country at the time, was not allowed to return.

Arab Higher Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

And your response will be a bunch of crap that foreigners did.

You're rather selective in your cutting and pasting. From the wiki article:


On 26 September 1937, the Acting British District Commissioner of Galilee, Lewis Yelland Andrews, was assassinated in Nazareth. The next day Britain outlawed the Arab Higher Committee,[9] and began to arrest its members. On 1 October 1937, the National Bloc, the Reform Party and the Istiqlal Party were dissolved.[10] Yaqub al-Ghusayn, Al-Khalidi and Ahmed Hilmi Pasha were arrested and then deported.[10] Jamal al-Husayni escaped to Syria, as did Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni. Amin al-Husayni managed to escape arrest, but was removed from the presidency of the Supreme Muslim Council.[11] The Committee was banned by the Mandate administration and three members (and two other Palestinian leaders) were deported to the Seychelles and the others moved into voluntary exile in neighbouring countries.[12] Awni Abd al-Hadi, who was out of the country at the time, was not allowed to return. The National Defence Party, which had withdrawn from the AHC soon after its formation, was not outlawed,



Who was responsible for the murder of Commissioner of Galilee, Lewis Yelland Andrews? Was it heavily armed, radical Lutherans?

I don't know. It didn't say. Was it ever investigated?

Selective reading again so you dont have to admot to the truth

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Great Philosophers and Zen Masters, in discussions with students --- seldom impart data or direct knowledge to the students. "Insight" and "enlightenment" are not a matter of memory or functions of language and mathematics. "Insight" and "enlightenment" is attainable by means of a formula or scrupulously following rules or directions. Instead, "insight" and "enlightenment" on the ability to adaptively think about individuals and the multiples, the local area, the global view, the solar community, the galactic constituents and the universe; orienting yourself to the conditions that present the "now." It is sometimes a need to find a wholly new way of making sense of the reality (U Yun Qin, ≈ 450 BCE). In the 17th Century, in a period of enlightenment, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz would come to call this the "Principle of Sufficient Reason" (PSR). You may not know or understand the progression or a reason for a specific event, but if it happened, then their was a chain of causality.

PSR is very applicable to the arguments presented about the Arab-Israeli Conflict.

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.

(COMMENT)

I. Questions to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Transjordan, Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon:

(a) Are armed elements of your armed forces or irregular forces sponsored by your Government now operating

(1) in Palestine;
(2) in areas (towns, cities, districts) of Palestine where the Jews are in the majority?​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

In its reply dated May 24 (S/775) the Arab Higher Committee stated in answer to question (a) that it exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine. Being composed of representatives of the different Arab political parties, it formed a coalition which expressed Arab public opinion in Palestine. The Arab Higher Committee concluded further that it therefore spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine, inasmuch as the Arabs were in the majority in all districts and sub-districts except that of Jaffa, in which Tel Aviv is located.

The Enlightenment: It cannot be the case that the All Palestine Government (APG) and the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) could simultaneously "exercised political authority over the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Palestine;" and that the AHC "spoke in the name of the majority of all of Palestine."
​

The reply of the Provisional Government of Israel (S/766) to the questions addressed to the "Jewish authorities in Palestine" was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations on May 22.
​

The Answer: Page 418 Yearbook of the United Nations, 1947-1948

​

In reply to questions (a) and (b) it was stated that the Provisional Government of Israel was actually exercising control of the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the General Assembly's resolution of November 29, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government of Israel was exercising control over certain parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel, parts which, with the notable exception of Jerusalem,

​

For Your Reference:

• 1947-48 Part 1: United Nations. Section 3: The Security Council. Chapter D: Political and security questions Beginning Page 439
• 1948-49 Title Page i The Yearbook of the United Nations
​

The Enlightenment:

∆ While your question may be interesting academically (only to a few), it applies no relevance to the reality as it was seen then by the Parties Involved. Clearly the APG was not a parties, but could be considered a limited constituency with no capacity.

Trying to argue this point is simply ridiculous. Even the APG itself was not real. That became obvious when the Egyptians dissolved the APG in 1959. Where was the right of self-determination then?

The right of self determination is the right of the people of the place. A state or government is not a requirement.

(COMMENT)

This is clearly an answer to a question, somewhere; but irrelevant to this discussion. The APG had no real constituency in the territory as a whole or in the sovereign control of Israel. The Arabs of Palestine were represented by the AHC.

"PART I.

"The consultations among the permanent members of the Security Council and informal communications with the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee, held since March 5, 1948, have developed the following facts regarding the situation with respect to Palestine:

"1. The Jewish Agency accepts the partition plan, considers it to be the irreducible minimum acceptable to the Jews, and insists upon the implementation of the plan without modification.

"2. The Arab Higher Committee rejects any solution based on partition in any form and considers that the only acceptable solution is the formation of one independent State for the whole of Palestine, whose constitution would be based on democratic principles and which would include adequate safeguards for minorities and the safety of the Holy Places.

"3. No modifications in the essentials of the partition plan are acceptable to the Jewish Agency, and no modifications would make the plan acceptable to the Arab Higher Committee.

"4. The Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee have indicated that the partition plan cannot be implemented by peaceful means under present conditions.

"5. The Mandatory Power has confirmed that a considerable number of incursions of illegal arms and armed elements into Palestine have occurred by land and sea.

"6. The gradual withdrawal of the military forces of the Mandatory Power will, in the absence of agreement, result in increasing violence and disorder in Palestine. Warfare of a guerrilla type grows more violent constantly.

"7. If the mandate is terminated prior to a peaceful solution of the problem, large-scale fighting between the two communities can be expected.
​

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee. The All-Palestine Government was not established by the Arab League until on 22 September 1948. "At its 200th meeting on 15 November, the First Committee decided, by a vote of 48 to none, with 5 abstentions, to grant a hearing to the Arab Higher Committee, in accordance with its request (A/C.1/335), to express the views of the Arabs of Palestine on the question of Palestine and on the report of the Mediator. The Committee, however, made no allusion to the credentials of the Higher Committee as representing the All-Palestine Government, as had been requested by the Higher Committee and the All-Palestine Government (A/C.1/339)." See UN Yearbook 1948-49 Part i, Section 3, Page 168)

Most Respectfully,
R

The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I have heard that a gazillion times but nobody has posted anything showing it to be true.​

Nice smokescreen.

You ducked my post.

"The 1948 All Palestine Government (APG) Declaration of Independence which attempted to incorporate the sovereignty of Israel was then and is now "bogus."

I believe you will find that the Israelis have shown it to be bogus.

You might be oxygen deprived from inhaling all that smoke.

I have heard the Israeli "say so" a gazillion times but nothing showing that to be true.

Only because you refuse to read the reports showing it to be bogus. Just as you refuse to read the parts of the Mandate that apply to the Jews and their national home

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Through the entire Mandate Period, the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) or some variation on the theme (the Arab Delegation) represented theArab Palestinian interests. It is only after the bid to destroy the Jewish National Home in May 1948, that the some various failed factions of the Arab Palestinians jump-up and claim misrepresentation.

This is merely just another way for the Arab Palestinian to adorn themselves with the perpetual victim mask, and blame someone else; even themselves disguised as someone else, for their continuous failures.

The importance here is that immediately prior to the outbreak of hostilities, the principle players were the Palestine Commission, the Mandatory Power, the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee. The All-Palestine Government was not established by the Arab League until on 22 September 1948.

So what happened to the only Palestinian representation?

When the Committee was outlawed in September 1937, six of its members were deported, its president Amin al-Husayni managed to escape arrest and went into exile in Beirut. Jamal al-Husayni escaped to Syria. Three other members were deported to the Seychelles, and other members moved into voluntary exile in neighbouring countries. Al-Hadi, who was out of the country at the time, was not allowed to return.

Arab Higher Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

And your response will be a bunch of crap that foreigners did.

(COMMENT)

This idea of "foreigners" was nothing new. This Xenophobic idea, and the Palestine Arab Congress (PAC), dates back a time when the area was under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA). It should also be pointed out that even though you complain about the "bunch of crap that foreigners did," you turn around and cite the Third PAC and the call "for Palestine to be part of the independent Arab state promised in the McMahon–Hussein Correspondence." (Notice that both British High Commissioner and the Sharif of Mecca are "foreigners.") And the independent Arab State promised to was to become known as the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and ruled by Crown Prince Abdullah. However a totally separate agreement between two of the Principle Allied Powers, known as the Sykes-Picot Agreement, specified that most of Palestine was to be entrusted to an international administration. The agreement clearly contradicted the promises made to Sharif Hussein of Mecca. But again, none of this revolves around some specific population known as the Arabs of Palestine.

While Jamal al-Husayn was eventually arrested by the British in 1941 and exiled to Southern Rhodesia (AKA Zimbabwe), he did return to become the Foreign Minister of the Egyptian created All-Palestine Government (APG). You also mention "Amin al-Husayni [more commonly known as Mohammed Amin al-Husseini (one-time Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and once a WWI enemy Ottoman Army Artillery Officer; and WWII NAZI Collaborator)] who became the 'Chairman of the Arab Higher Executive' (AHE) and the Egyptian installed President of the APG, was a prominently associated antisemitic Riots from 1928 on and various hostile Palestinian nationalist groups.

There is little question that we could argue the merits of foreign connections the various Arabs of Palestine had with the "Allied Powers" (foreigners as you would have it). But just remember, it was the "foreigners" (the Allied Powers) that were the recipients of all title and rights to the territory that was to come under the Mandate for Palestine.

(SIDEBAR)

Yes the original AHC was outlawed in 1937. But the Arab League reconstituted it immediately after the end of WWII. It was the AHC of 1945 that rejected the UN Partition Plan in 1948, that reaffirmed the Arabs of Palestine could not recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising or derived therefrom, and declared the creation of any Jewish state in an Arab territory is more than invasion or aggression; and made the solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians have the right to defend their country.

So why aren't they in their country defending it then, as they never had ownership or sovereignty of palestine in living memory