Fast & Furious Guns Will Be Used In Crimes For 'Years To Come.'

[paulitician]

That's why you should be wearing an orange jumpsuit Mr. Holder. How many will die or have already died because of your crimes? This is just plain sad...


Attorney General Eric Holder suggested Thursday that weapons lost during the course of the failed "Fast and Furious" gunrunning operation will continue to show up at crime scenes in the U.S. and Mexico "for years to come."

Holder, in testimony on Capitol Hill that comes as the congressional investigation into the program expands, decried the "gun-walking" tactic used in the operation as "inexcusable" and "wholly unacceptable." But a day after an influential senator called for the resignation of one of Holder's top deputies over the scandal, Holder denied department leaders played any role in the crafting of Fast and Furious.

He continued to assert that top Justice officials were not told about the "inappropriate tactics" until they were made public.

Still, the top law enforcement official in the country conceded that, as a result of Fast and Furious, guns lost by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives remain in the hands of criminals.

Congress has been investigating Fast and Furious for nearly a year. Scrutiny of the program intensified after guns from the program were found at the scene of Border Patrol agent Brian Terry's murder.



Read more: Holder Suggests Fast And Furious Guns Will Be Used In Crimes For 'Years To Come' | Fox News

 

[paulitician]

How is this guy still Attorney General? Mind-Boggling.

 

[driveby]

This is serious stuff and no one gives a shit, post some garbage about Herman Cain or Newt and the crowd goes wild.......

 

[techieny]

 

[techieny]

 

[TheDecepticon]

Didn't this start under the Bush adminstration?

The Associated Press is reporting on a second Bush administration investigation that involved so-called "gun walking" of weapons to Mexico, the same tactic for which the Obama administration is facing scrutiny from the Justice Department and Congress.

E-mails pertaining to a 2007 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives operation out of Phoenix show that agents allowed illegal shipments of guns across the border into Mexico in a failed effort to identify higher-ups in smuggling networks. Earlier this month, the bureau's new director, B. Todd Jones, acknowledged ATF agents launched a similar operation in a 2006 called "Operation Wide Receiver.''
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/10/2nd-probe-surfac es-of-bush-era-gun-trafficking-to-mexico-/1


So, any bets on that the same brilliant brain trust that launched Operation Wide Receiver is also responsible for Fast and Furious?


At the time, under the Bush administration Department of Justice (DOJ), no arrests or indictments were made. After President Barack Obama took office in 2009, the DOJ reviewed Wide Receiver and found that guns had been allowed into the hands of suspected gun traffickers. Indictments began in 2010, over three years after Wide Receiver concluded. As of October 4, 2011, nine people had been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms; two of them had pled guilty.[15]

Another, smaller probe occurred in 2007 under the same ATF Phoenix field division. It began when the ATF identified Mexican suspects who bought weapons from a Phoenix gun shop over a span of several months. The probe ultimately involved over 200 guns, a dozen of which were lost in Mexico. On September 27, 2007, ATF agents saw the original suspects buying weapons at the same store and followed them toward the Mexican border. The ATF informed the Mexican government when the suspects successfully crossed the border, but Mexican law enforcement were unable to track them.[2][20]

Less than two weeks later, on October 6, William Newell, then ATF's special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division, shut down the operation at the behest of William Hoover, ATF's assistant director for the office of field operations.[21] No charges were filed. Newell, who was special agent in charge from June 2006 to May 2011, would later play a major role in Operation Fast and Furious.
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


SO let's review shall we?

THE SAME THING, DONE BY THE SAME GUY went on under Bush. NO INDICTMENTS were made until the Obama administration CLEANED IT UP.


If you CONZ weren't so BLIND TO INCOMPETENCE, you would have caught this and Fast and Furious would never have been allowed to happen.
But just like the Wall Street Crash, you CONZ aren't really cut out for being responsible adults, are you?

 

[LilOlLady]

Guns were going into Mexico and drug cartels and other criminals long before Fast and Furious and it's be cause of the radical right wing extremist love afair with guns and want every one to have one and carry one so this is what we get. Gun trafficking into Mexico is a big business and there in no way of knowing if the gun that killed the agent were from Fast and Furious.

 

[LilOlLady]

2nd probe surfaces in Bush-era gun trafficking to Mexico

The Associated Press is reporting on a second Bush administration investigation that involved so-called "gun walking" of weapons to Mexico, the same tactic for which the Obama administration is facing scrutiny from the Justice Department and Congress.

E-mails pertaining to a 2007 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives operation out of Phoenix show that agents allowed illegal shipments of guns across the border into Mexico in a failed effort to identify higher-ups in smuggling networks. Earlier this month, the bureau's new director, B. Todd Jones, acknowledged ATF agents launched a similar operation in a 2006 called "Operation Wide Receiver.''
2nd probe surfaces in Bush-era gun trafficking to Mexico

 

[paulitician]

This is serious stuff and no one gives a shit, post some garbage about Herman Cain or Newt and the crowd goes wild.......

The Dumbing-Down of America. They're obssessed with their stupid reality tv,celebrities,sports,and porn. This kind of awful stuff just doesn't stir any anger or even concern in most now. It's exactly what the Politicians & Media always wanted...Dumbed-Down America.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Fast & Furious Guns Will Be Used In Crimes For 'Years To Come.'

Gee.....all-of-a-sudden....Republicans are worried-about....

....where/when weapons will be used....

....huh??

 

[PoliticalChic]

Didn't this start under the Bush adminstration?

The Associated Press is reporting on a second Bush administration investigation that involved so-called "gun walking" of weapons to Mexico, the same tactic for which the Obama administration is facing scrutiny from the Justice Department and Congress.

E-mails pertaining to a 2007 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives operation out of Phoenix show that agents allowed illegal shipments of guns across the border into Mexico in a failed effort to identify higher-ups in smuggling networks. Earlier this month, the bureau's new director, B. Todd Jones, acknowledged ATF agents launched a similar operation in a 2006 called "Operation Wide Receiver.''
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/10/2nd-probe-surfac es-of-bush-era-gun-trafficking-to-mexico-/1


So, any bets on that the same brilliant brain trust that launched Operation Wide Receiver is also responsible for Fast and Furious?


At the time, under the Bush administration Department of Justice (DOJ), no arrests or indictments were made. After President Barack Obama took office in 2009, the DOJ reviewed Wide Receiver and found that guns had been allowed into the hands of suspected gun traffickers. Indictments began in 2010, over three years after Wide Receiver concluded. As of October 4, 2011, nine people had been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms; two of them had pled guilty.[15]

Another, smaller probe occurred in 2007 under the same ATF Phoenix field division. It began when the ATF identified Mexican suspects who bought weapons from a Phoenix gun shop over a span of several months. The probe ultimately involved over 200 guns, a dozen of which were lost in Mexico. On September 27, 2007, ATF agents saw the original suspects buying weapons at the same store and followed them toward the Mexican border. The ATF informed the Mexican government when the suspects successfully crossed the border, but Mexican law enforcement were unable to track them.[2][20]

Less than two weeks later, on October 6, William Newell, then ATF's special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division, shut down the operation at the behest of William Hoover, ATF's assistant director for the office of field operations.[21] No charges were filed. Newell, who was special agent in charge from June 2006 to May 2011, would later play a major role in Operation Fast and Furious.
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


SO let's review shall we?

THE SAME THING, DONE BY THE SAME GUY went on under Bush. NO INDICTMENTS were made until the Obama administration CLEANED IT UP.


If you CONZ weren't so BLIND TO INCOMPETENCE, you would have caught this and Fast and Furious would never have been allowed to happen.
But just like the Wall Street Crash, you CONZ aren't really cut out for being responsible adults, are you?

Let's see if I can enlighten you...a possibility made miniscule due to your rabid hatred of the truth....

1. "It turns out, however, that Fast and Furious was not the first anti-smuggling case in which ATF agents used such a technique. Firearms were allowed into Mexico during two earlier operations, including a 2006-07 Tucson case known as Operation Wide Receiver. Those investigations were carried out quietly during the George W. Bush administration, without public controversy.

In Fast and Furious, an agent named John Dodson recognized early on that allowing guns to travel south could lead to bloodshed and scandal. What made the strategy especially dubious was the lack of a plan to follow the weapons. Agents used wiretaps and once installed a tracking device in the stock of a gun. But, mostly, firearms simply disappeared. And Mexican authorities, who were pleading with the U.S. government to prevent the exportation of assault rifles, had no idea."
ATF gun probe: Behind the fall of Operation Fast and Furious

a. A careful reading of same will explain that both administrations seem to have had the same objective...to prevent or curtail the use of 'straw gun sales' that resulted in guns winding up in the hads of the cartels.

But....they were very different is several important ways:

b. "Wide Receiver’s notion of tracing was night-and-day different from the tracing involved in the reckless gun-walking approach employed by Fast & Furious. Obviously, however, Democrats hope that if they get enough help from their friends in the media, the public will miss the distinction....some crucial distinctions between to two ATF operations. Wide Receiver actually involved not gun-walking but controlled delivery. Unlike gun-walking, which seems (for good reason) to have been unheard of until Fast & Furious, controlled delivery is a very common law enforcement tactic....Fast & Furious involved uncontrolled deliveries — of thousands of weapons. It was an utterly heedless program in which the feds allowed these guns to be sold to straw purchasers — often leaning on reluctant gun dealers to make the sales."
Fast & Furious Was . . . Bush’s Fault - By Andrew C. McCarthy - The Corner - National Review Online


2. For some reason, the Bush administration project had better restrictions and fail-safe considerations...and stopped the plan when guns continued to get through.

a. Was that because the ATF under Bush was smarter?

b. Actually...in the OP you learn that the real reason was that the Obama administration plan was designed to actually allow functioning guns to get to the drug cartels.
Get it?
The plan did a poor job of tracking the guns because it was designed to do just that!!!

Why?

Because the Obama-Holder D o J wanted to be able to point to the cartel-owned guns as a reason to blunt the recent conservative Supreme Court 2nd amendment decisons.

3. Now that CBS (will wonders never cease?) revealed the emails that indicate this, Obama-apologists, that would be you, pretend not to understand this....

...Somehow, when it indicts the Leftists, you guys can never seem to connect the dots.

So, let's review:
a. While the Bush project controlled the gun movement, the Obama-Holder plan allowed the guns to 'walk.'

b. In what seemed to be the usual Obama-incompetence, there was actually an ulterior, and sinister, motive: to undermine by surreptitious means what the Leftists saw the Supreme Court validate, the rights of Americans under the Constitution.


On the other hand, I do have a certain amount of sympathy for the Left when it has to rely on someone with your limited ability to defend it....
__________________

 

[paulitician]

Holder and all of his criminal cronies need to go. Nothing less can be accepted. Unless they arrest him.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

How is this guy still Attorney General? Mind-Boggling.

Yeah.....you got.....

.....that talking-point....

.....covered.

 

[TheDecepticon]

Didn't this start under the Bush adminstration?

The Associated Press is reporting on a second Bush administration investigation that involved so-called "gun walking" of weapons to Mexico, the same tactic for which the Obama administration is facing scrutiny from the Justice Department and Congress.

E-mails pertaining to a 2007 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives operation out of Phoenix show that agents allowed illegal shipments of guns across the border into Mexico in a failed effort to identify higher-ups in smuggling networks. Earlier this month, the bureau's new director, B. Todd Jones, acknowledged ATF agents launched a similar operation in a 2006 called "Operation Wide Receiver.''
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/10/2nd-probe-surfac es-of-bush-era-gun-trafficking-to-mexico-/1


So, any bets on that the same brilliant brain trust that launched Operation Wide Receiver is also responsible for Fast and Furious?


At the time, under the Bush administration Department of Justice (DOJ), no arrests or indictments were made. After President Barack Obama took office in 2009, the DOJ reviewed Wide Receiver and found that guns had been allowed into the hands of suspected gun traffickers. Indictments began in 2010, over three years after Wide Receiver concluded. As of October 4, 2011, nine people had been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms; two of them had pled guilty.[15]

Another, smaller probe occurred in 2007 under the same ATF Phoenix field division. It began when the ATF identified Mexican suspects who bought weapons from a Phoenix gun shop over a span of several months. The probe ultimately involved over 200 guns, a dozen of which were lost in Mexico. On September 27, 2007, ATF agents saw the original suspects buying weapons at the same store and followed them toward the Mexican border. The ATF informed the Mexican government when the suspects successfully crossed the border, but Mexican law enforcement were unable to track them.[2][20]

Less than two weeks later, on October 6, William Newell, then ATF's special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division, shut down the operation at the behest of William Hoover, ATF's assistant director for the office of field operations.[21] No charges were filed. Newell, who was special agent in charge from June 2006 to May 2011, would later play a major role in Operation Fast and Furious.
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


SO let's review shall we?

THE SAME THING, DONE BY THE SAME GUY went on under Bush. NO INDICTMENTS were made until the Obama administration CLEANED IT UP.


If you CONZ weren't so BLIND TO INCOMPETENCE, you would have caught this and Fast and Furious would never have been allowed to happen.
But just like the Wall Street Crash, you CONZ aren't really cut out for being responsible adults, are you?

Let's see if I can enlighten you...a possibility made miniscule due to your rabid hatred of the truth....

1. "It turns out, however, that Fast and Furious was not the first anti-smuggling case in which ATF agents used such a technique. Firearms were allowed into Mexico during two earlier operations, including a 2006-07 Tucson case known as Operation Wide Receiver. Those investigations were carried out quietly during the George W. Bush administration, without public controversy.

In Fast and Furious, an agent named John Dodson recognized early on that allowing guns to travel south could lead to bloodshed and scandal. What made the strategy especially dubious was the lack of a plan to follow the weapons. Agents used wiretaps and once installed a tracking device in the stock of a gun. But, mostly, firearms simply disappeared. And Mexican authorities, who were pleading with the U.S. government to prevent the exportation of assault rifles, had no idea."
ATF gun probe: Behind the fall of Operation Fast and Furious

a. A careful reading of same will explain that both administrations seem to have had the same objective...to prevent or curtail the use of 'straw gun sales' that resulted in guns winding up in the hads of the cartels.

But....they were very different is several important ways:

b. "Wide Receiver’s notion of tracing was night-and-day different from the tracing involved in the reckless gun-walking approach employed by Fast & Furious. Obviously, however, Democrats hope that if they get enough help from their friends in the media, the public will miss the distinction....some crucial distinctions between to two ATF operations. Wide Receiver actually involved not gun-walking but controlled delivery. Unlike gun-walking, which seems (for good reason) to have been unheard of until Fast & Furious, controlled delivery is a very common law enforcement tactic....Fast & Furious involved uncontrolled deliveries — of thousands of weapons. It was an utterly heedless program in which the feds allowed these guns to be sold to straw purchasers — often leaning on reluctant gun dealers to make the sales."
Fast & Furious Was . . . Bush’s Fault - By Andrew C. McCarthy - The Corner - National Review Online


2. For some reason, the Bush administration project had better restrictions and fail-safe considerations...and stopped the plan when guns continued to get through.

a. Was that because the ATF under Bush was smarter?

b. Actually...in the OP you learn that the real reason was that the Obama administration plan was designed to actually allow functioning guns to get to the drug cartels.
Get it?
The plan did a poor job of tracking the guns because it was designed to do just that!!!

Why?

Because the Obama-Holder D o J wanted to be able to point to the cartel-owned guns as a reason to blunt the recent conservative Supreme Court 2nd amendment decisons.

3. Now that CBS (will wonders never cease?) revealed the emails that indicate this, Obama-apologists, that would be you, pretend not to understand this....

...Somehow, when it indicts the Leftists, you guys can never seem to connect the dots.

So, let's review:
a. While the Bush project controlled the gun movement, the Obama-Holder plan allowed the guns to 'walk.'

b. In what seemed to be the usual Obama-incompetence, there was actually an ulterior, and sinister, motive: to undermine by surreptitious means what the Leftists saw the Supreme Court validate, the rights of Americans under the Constitution.


On the other hand, I do have a certain amount of sympathy for the Left when it has to rely on someone with your limited ability to defend it....
__________________

1. Carried out quietly and without public controversy. Nice. Isn't that just another way of saying you didn't get caught? Congratulations. You HID your failure well. Do you want a cookie for that or will a "heckuva job" suffice? Bush let the guns walk too. UNDISPUTED FACT.

From the article I posted, had you bothered to read it....

The first known ATF "gunwalking" operation to Mexican drug cartels, named Operation Wide Receiver, began in early 2006 and ran into 2007. The ATF was informed of a suspicious gun purchase by licensed dealer Mike Detty in Tucson, Arizona. He was then hired as a confidential informant working with the ATF's Tucson office, part of their Phoenix, Arizona field division. With the use of surveillance equipment, ATF agents monitored additional sales by Detty to straw purchasers. With assurance from ATF "that Mexican officials would be conducting surveillance or interdictions when guns got to the other side of the border",[18] Detty would sell a total of about 450 guns during the operation.[17] They were eventually lost as they moved into Mexico.[6][19]
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
CAN YOU READ? Does that sound like they "controlled" the gun movement?

The difference here is between 450 guns under Bush and 700 under Obama, conducted by the SAME ATF personnel.

2. Better restrictions and fail safe policies? Like watching the guns go over the border and waiting for Mexican officials to pick up the slack, which they didn't? That's ALMOST as smart as letting our allies capture Osama Bin Laden at Tora Bora, isn't it?

Face it, this isn't an embarrassment for Obama in any other respect that he didn't CLEAN UP YOUR MESS fast enough or to your liking.

FACTS:
450 Guns went into Mexico untracked under Bush.
Same personnel that conducted that failure, conducted the SAME one that you're bitching about now.
Obama actually PROSECUTED CRIMINALS that the Bush administration let walk in Operation Wide Receiver.

Come back when you figure out how something that started under Bush, didn't result in ANY prosecutions or red flags for that administration, is now a HUGE problem for Obama and Holder, who HALTED it when they found out about it?

 

[Jarhead]

Didn't this start under the Bush adminstration?

The Associated Press is reporting on a second Bush administration investigation that involved so-called "gun walking" of weapons to Mexico, the same tactic for which the Obama administration is facing scrutiny from the Justice Department and Congress.

E-mails pertaining to a 2007 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives operation out of Phoenix show that agents allowed illegal shipments of guns across the border into Mexico in a failed effort to identify higher-ups in smuggling networks. Earlier this month, the bureau's new director, B. Todd Jones, acknowledged ATF agents launched a similar operation in a 2006 called "Operation Wide Receiver.''
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/10/2nd-probe-surfac es-of-bush-era-gun-trafficking-to-mexico-/1


So, any bets on that the same brilliant brain trust that launched Operation Wide Receiver is also responsible for Fast and Furious?


At the time, under the Bush administration Department of Justice (DOJ), no arrests or indictments were made. After President Barack Obama took office in 2009, the DOJ reviewed Wide Receiver and found that guns had been allowed into the hands of suspected gun traffickers. Indictments began in 2010, over three years after Wide Receiver concluded. As of October 4, 2011, nine people had been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms; two of them had pled guilty.[15]

Another, smaller probe occurred in 2007 under the same ATF Phoenix field division. It began when the ATF identified Mexican suspects who bought weapons from a Phoenix gun shop over a span of several months. The probe ultimately involved over 200 guns, a dozen of which were lost in Mexico. On September 27, 2007, ATF agents saw the original suspects buying weapons at the same store and followed them toward the Mexican border. The ATF informed the Mexican government when the suspects successfully crossed the border, but Mexican law enforcement were unable to track them.[2][20]

Less than two weeks later, on October 6, William Newell, then ATF's special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division, shut down the operation at the behest of William Hoover, ATF's assistant director for the office of field operations.[21] No charges were filed. Newell, who was special agent in charge from June 2006 to May 2011, would later play a major role in Operation Fast and Furious.
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


SO let's review shall we?

THE SAME THING, DONE BY THE SAME GUY went on under Bush. NO INDICTMENTS were made until the Obama administration CLEANED IT UP.


If you CONZ weren't so BLIND TO INCOMPETENCE, you would have caught this and Fast and Furious would never have been allowed to happen.
But just like the Wall Street Crash, you CONZ aren't really cut out for being responsible adults, are you?

Let's see if I can enlighten you...a possibility made miniscule due to your rabid hatred of the truth....

1. "It turns out, however, that Fast and Furious was not the first anti-smuggling case in which ATF agents used such a technique. Firearms were allowed into Mexico during two earlier operations, including a 2006-07 Tucson case known as Operation Wide Receiver. Those investigations were carried out quietly during the George W. Bush administration, without public controversy.

In Fast and Furious, an agent named John Dodson recognized early on that allowing guns to travel south could lead to bloodshed and scandal. What made the strategy especially dubious was the lack of a plan to follow the weapons. Agents used wiretaps and once installed a tracking device in the stock of a gun. But, mostly, firearms simply disappeared. And Mexican authorities, who were pleading with the U.S. government to prevent the exportation of assault rifles, had no idea."
ATF gun probe: Behind the fall of Operation Fast and Furious

a. A careful reading of same will explain that both administrations seem to have had the same objective...to prevent or curtail the use of 'straw gun sales' that resulted in guns winding up in the hads of the cartels.

But....they were very different is several important ways:

b. "Wide Receiver’s notion of tracing was night-and-day different from the tracing involved in the reckless gun-walking approach employed by Fast & Furious. Obviously, however, Democrats hope that if they get enough help from their friends in the media, the public will miss the distinction....some crucial distinctions between to two ATF operations. Wide Receiver actually involved not gun-walking but controlled delivery. Unlike gun-walking, which seems (for good reason) to have been unheard of until Fast & Furious, controlled delivery is a very common law enforcement tactic....Fast & Furious involved uncontrolled deliveries — of thousands of weapons. It was an utterly heedless program in which the feds allowed these guns to be sold to straw purchasers — often leaning on reluctant gun dealers to make the sales."
Fast & Furious Was . . . Bush’s Fault - By Andrew C. McCarthy - The Corner - National Review Online


2. For some reason, the Bush administration project had better restrictions and fail-safe considerations...and stopped the plan when guns continued to get through.

a. Was that because the ATF under Bush was smarter?

b. Actually...in the OP you learn that the real reason was that the Obama administration plan was designed to actually allow functioning guns to get to the drug cartels.
Get it?
The plan did a poor job of tracking the guns because it was designed to do just that!!!

Why?

Because the Obama-Holder D o J wanted to be able to point to the cartel-owned guns as a reason to blunt the recent conservative Supreme Court 2nd amendment decisons.

3. Now that CBS (will wonders never cease?) revealed the emails that indicate this, Obama-apologists, that would be you, pretend not to understand this....

...Somehow, when it indicts the Leftists, you guys can never seem to connect the dots.

So, let's review:
a. While the Bush project controlled the gun movement, the Obama-Holder plan allowed the guns to 'walk.'

b. In what seemed to be the usual Obama-incompetence, there was actually an ulterior, and sinister, motive: to undermine by surreptitious means what the Leftists saw the Supreme Court validate, the rights of Americans under the Constitution.


On the other hand, I do have a certain amount of sympathy for the Left when it has to rely on someone with your limited ability to defend it....
__________________

1. Carried out quietly and without public controversy. Nice. Isn't that just another way of saying you didn't get caught? Congratulations. You HID your failure well. Do you want a cookie for that or will a "heckuva job" suffice? Bush let the guns walk too. UNDISPUTED FACT.

From the article I posted, had you bothered to read it....

The first known ATF "gunwalking" operation to Mexican drug cartels, named Operation Wide Receiver, began in early 2006 and ran into 2007. The ATF was informed of a suspicious gun purchase by licensed dealer Mike Detty in Tucson, Arizona. He was then hired as a confidential informant working with the ATF's Tucson office, part of their Phoenix, Arizona field division. With the use of surveillance equipment, ATF agents monitored additional sales by Detty to straw purchasers. With assurance from ATF "that Mexican officials would be conducting surveillance or interdictions when guns got to the other side of the border",[18] Detty would sell a total of about 450 guns during the operation.[17] They were eventually lost as they moved into Mexico.[6][19]
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
CAN YOU READ? Does that sound like they "controlled" the gun movement?

The difference here is between 450 guns under Bush and 700 under Obama, conducted by the SAME ATF personnel.

2. Better restrictions and fail safe policies? Like watching the guns go over the border and waiting for Mexican officials to pick up the slack, which they didn't? That's ALMOST as smart as letting our allies capture Osama Bin Laden at Tora Bora, isn't it?

Face it, this isn't an embarrassment for Obama in any other respect that he didn't CLEAN UP YOUR MESS fast enough or to your liking.

FACTS:
450 Guns went into Mexico untracked under Bush.
Same personnel that conducted that failure, conducted the SAME one that you're bitching about now.
Obama actually PROSECUTED CRIMINALS that the Bush administration let walk in Operation Wide Receiver.

Come back when you figure out how something that started under Bush, didn't result in ANY prosecutions or red flags for that administration, is now a HUGE problem for Obama and Holder, who HALTED it when they found out about it?

Simple answer

The Bush administration discussed the operation with the Mexican Government and got their apporoval before the operation began.

The Obama administration, aware that Mexico would likely deny them the right to do so, opted to NOT inform the Mexican government of the operation...and to make matters worse, despite the failures of the Bush operation, the Obama administration did it again anyway.

 

[Jarhead]

Didn't this start under the Bush adminstration?

The Associated Press is reporting on a second Bush administration investigation that involved so-called "gun walking" of weapons to Mexico, the same tactic for which the Obama administration is facing scrutiny from the Justice Department and Congress.

E-mails pertaining to a 2007 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives operation out of Phoenix show that agents allowed illegal shipments of guns across the border into Mexico in a failed effort to identify higher-ups in smuggling networks. Earlier this month, the bureau's new director, B. Todd Jones, acknowledged ATF agents launched a similar operation in a 2006 called "Operation Wide Receiver.''
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/10/2nd-probe-surfac es-of-bush-era-gun-trafficking-to-mexico-/1


So, any bets on that the same brilliant brain trust that launched Operation Wide Receiver is also responsible for Fast and Furious?


At the time, under the Bush administration Department of Justice (DOJ), no arrests or indictments were made. After President Barack Obama took office in 2009, the DOJ reviewed Wide Receiver and found that guns had been allowed into the hands of suspected gun traffickers. Indictments began in 2010, over three years after Wide Receiver concluded. As of October 4, 2011, nine people had been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms; two of them had pled guilty.[15]

Another, smaller probe occurred in 2007 under the same ATF Phoenix field division. It began when the ATF identified Mexican suspects who bought weapons from a Phoenix gun shop over a span of several months. The probe ultimately involved over 200 guns, a dozen of which were lost in Mexico. On September 27, 2007, ATF agents saw the original suspects buying weapons at the same store and followed them toward the Mexican border. The ATF informed the Mexican government when the suspects successfully crossed the border, but Mexican law enforcement were unable to track them.[2][20]

Less than two weeks later, on October 6, William Newell, then ATF's special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division, shut down the operation at the behest of William Hoover, ATF's assistant director for the office of field operations.[21] No charges were filed. Newell, who was special agent in charge from June 2006 to May 2011, would later play a major role in Operation Fast and Furious.
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


SO let's review shall we?

THE SAME THING, DONE BY THE SAME GUY went on under Bush. NO INDICTMENTS were made until the Obama administration CLEANED IT UP.


If you CONZ weren't so BLIND TO INCOMPETENCE, you would have caught this and Fast and Furious would never have been allowed to happen.
But just like the Wall Street Crash, you CONZ aren't really cut out for being responsible adults, are you?

Let's see if I can enlighten you...a possibility made miniscule due to your rabid hatred of the truth....

1. "It turns out, however, that Fast and Furious was not the first anti-smuggling case in which ATF agents used such a technique. Firearms were allowed into Mexico during two earlier operations, including a 2006-07 Tucson case known as Operation Wide Receiver. Those investigations were carried out quietly during the George W. Bush administration, without public controversy.

In Fast and Furious, an agent named John Dodson recognized early on that allowing guns to travel south could lead to bloodshed and scandal. What made the strategy especially dubious was the lack of a plan to follow the weapons. Agents used wiretaps and once installed a tracking device in the stock of a gun. But, mostly, firearms simply disappeared. And Mexican authorities, who were pleading with the U.S. government to prevent the exportation of assault rifles, had no idea."
ATF gun probe: Behind the fall of Operation Fast and Furious

a. A careful reading of same will explain that both administrations seem to have had the same objective...to prevent or curtail the use of 'straw gun sales' that resulted in guns winding up in the hads of the cartels.

But....they were very different is several important ways:

b. "Wide Receiver’s notion of tracing was night-and-day different from the tracing involved in the reckless gun-walking approach employed by Fast & Furious. Obviously, however, Democrats hope that if they get enough help from their friends in the media, the public will miss the distinction....some crucial distinctions between to two ATF operations. Wide Receiver actually involved not gun-walking but controlled delivery. Unlike gun-walking, which seems (for good reason) to have been unheard of until Fast & Furious, controlled delivery is a very common law enforcement tactic....Fast & Furious involved uncontrolled deliveries — of thousands of weapons. It was an utterly heedless program in which the feds allowed these guns to be sold to straw purchasers — often leaning on reluctant gun dealers to make the sales."
Fast & Furious Was . . . Bush’s Fault - By Andrew C. McCarthy - The Corner - National Review Online


2. For some reason, the Bush administration project had better restrictions and fail-safe considerations...and stopped the plan when guns continued to get through.

a. Was that because the ATF under Bush was smarter?

b. Actually...in the OP you learn that the real reason was that the Obama administration plan was designed to actually allow functioning guns to get to the drug cartels.
Get it?
The plan did a poor job of tracking the guns because it was designed to do just that!!!

Why?

Because the Obama-Holder D o J wanted to be able to point to the cartel-owned guns as a reason to blunt the recent conservative Supreme Court 2nd amendment decisons.

3. Now that CBS (will wonders never cease?) revealed the emails that indicate this, Obama-apologists, that would be you, pretend not to understand this....

...Somehow, when it indicts the Leftists, you guys can never seem to connect the dots.

So, let's review:
a. While the Bush project controlled the gun movement, the Obama-Holder plan allowed the guns to 'walk.'

b. In what seemed to be the usual Obama-incompetence, there was actually an ulterior, and sinister, motive: to undermine by surreptitious means what the Leftists saw the Supreme Court validate, the rights of Americans under the Constitution.


On the other hand, I do have a certain amount of sympathy for the Left when it has to rely on someone with your limited ability to defend it....
__________________

1. Carried out quietly and without public controversy. Nice. Isn't that just another way of saying you didn't get caught? Congratulations. You HID your failure well. Do you want a cookie for that or will a "heckuva job" suffice? Bush let the guns walk too. UNDISPUTED FACT.

From the article I posted, had you bothered to read it....

The first known ATF "gunwalking" operation to Mexican drug cartels, named Operation Wide Receiver, began in early 2006 and ran into 2007. The ATF was informed of a suspicious gun purchase by licensed dealer Mike Detty in Tucson, Arizona. He was then hired as a confidential informant working with the ATF's Tucson office, part of their Phoenix, Arizona field division. With the use of surveillance equipment, ATF agents monitored additional sales by Detty to straw purchasers. With assurance from ATF "that Mexican officials would be conducting surveillance or interdictions when guns got to the other side of the border",[18] Detty would sell a total of about 450 guns during the operation.[17] They were eventually lost as they moved into Mexico.[6][19]
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
CAN YOU READ? Does that sound like they "controlled" the gun movement?

The difference here is between 450 guns under Bush and 700 under Obama, conducted by the SAME ATF personnel.

2. Better restrictions and fail safe policies? Like watching the guns go over the border and waiting for Mexican officials to pick up the slack, which they didn't? That's ALMOST as smart as letting our allies capture Osama Bin Laden at Tora Bora, isn't it?

Face it, this isn't an embarrassment for Obama in any other respect that he didn't CLEAN UP YOUR MESS fast enough or to your liking.

FACTS:
450 Guns went into Mexico untracked under Bush.
Same personnel that conducted that failure, conducted the SAME one that you're bitching about now.
Obama actually PROSECUTED CRIMINALS that the Bush administration let walk in Operation Wide Receiver.

Come back when you figure out how something that started under Bush, didn't result in ANY prosecutions or red flags for that administration, is now a HUGE problem for Obama and Holder, who HALTED it when they found out about it?

They were two completely separate operations.

 

[paulitician]

Who stands up for Brian Terry if we don't? He didn't have to die. He died because of Eric Holder. And it's time for justice.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I note that, rather than a cry to jail those memeber of The Obama's administration who are responsible for this, the liberals choose to respond with "well, uh, um, its BUSH'S fault!"

You liberals should be ashamed of yourselves - but -that- would require a level of intelectual honesty beyond your capabilities.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Didn't this start under the Bush adminstration?

The Associated Press is reporting on a second Bush administration investigation that involved so-called "gun walking" of weapons to Mexico, the same tactic for which the Obama administration is facing scrutiny from the Justice Department and Congress.

E-mails pertaining to a 2007 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives operation out of Phoenix show that agents allowed illegal shipments of guns across the border into Mexico in a failed effort to identify higher-ups in smuggling networks. Earlier this month, the bureau's new director, B. Todd Jones, acknowledged ATF agents launched a similar operation in a 2006 called "Operation Wide Receiver.''
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/10/2nd-probe-surfac es-of-bush-era-gun-trafficking-to-mexico-/1


So, any bets on that the same brilliant brain trust that launched Operation Wide Receiver is also responsible for Fast and Furious?


At the time, under the Bush administration Department of Justice (DOJ), no arrests or indictments were made. After President Barack Obama took office in 2009, the DOJ reviewed Wide Receiver and found that guns had been allowed into the hands of suspected gun traffickers. Indictments began in 2010, over three years after Wide Receiver concluded. As of October 4, 2011, nine people had been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms; two of them had pled guilty.[15]

Another, smaller probe occurred in 2007 under the same ATF Phoenix field division. It began when the ATF identified Mexican suspects who bought weapons from a Phoenix gun shop over a span of several months. The probe ultimately involved over 200 guns, a dozen of which were lost in Mexico. On September 27, 2007, ATF agents saw the original suspects buying weapons at the same store and followed them toward the Mexican border. The ATF informed the Mexican government when the suspects successfully crossed the border, but Mexican law enforcement were unable to track them.[2][20]

Less than two weeks later, on October 6, William Newell, then ATF's special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division, shut down the operation at the behest of William Hoover, ATF's assistant director for the office of field operations.[21] No charges were filed. Newell, who was special agent in charge from June 2006 to May 2011, would later play a major role in Operation Fast and Furious.
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


SO let's review shall we?

THE SAME THING, DONE BY THE SAME GUY went on under Bush. NO INDICTMENTS were made until the Obama administration CLEANED IT UP.


If you CONZ weren't so BLIND TO INCOMPETENCE, you would have caught this and Fast and Furious would never have been allowed to happen.
But just like the Wall Street Crash, you CONZ aren't really cut out for being responsible adults, are you?

Let's see if I can enlighten you...a possibility made miniscule due to your rabid hatred of the truth....

1. "It turns out, however, that Fast and Furious was not the first anti-smuggling case in which ATF agents used such a technique. Firearms were allowed into Mexico during two earlier operations, including a 2006-07 Tucson case known as Operation Wide Receiver. Those investigations were carried out quietly during the George W. Bush administration, without public controversy.

In Fast and Furious, an agent named John Dodson recognized early on that allowing guns to travel south could lead to bloodshed and scandal. What made the strategy especially dubious was the lack of a plan to follow the weapons. Agents used wiretaps and once installed a tracking device in the stock of a gun. But, mostly, firearms simply disappeared. And Mexican authorities, who were pleading with the U.S. government to prevent the exportation of assault rifles, had no idea."
ATF gun probe: Behind the fall of Operation Fast and Furious

a. A careful reading of same will explain that both administrations seem to have had the same objective...to prevent or curtail the use of 'straw gun sales' that resulted in guns winding up in the hads of the cartels.

But....they were very different is several important ways:

b. "Wide Receiver’s notion of tracing was night-and-day different from the tracing involved in the reckless gun-walking approach employed by Fast & Furious. Obviously, however, Democrats hope that if they get enough help from their friends in the media, the public will miss the distinction....some crucial distinctions between to two ATF operations. Wide Receiver actually involved not gun-walking but controlled delivery. Unlike gun-walking, which seems (for good reason) to have been unheard of until Fast & Furious, controlled delivery is a very common law enforcement tactic....Fast & Furious involved uncontrolled deliveries — of thousands of weapons. It was an utterly heedless program in which the feds allowed these guns to be sold to straw purchasers — often leaning on reluctant gun dealers to make the sales."
Fast & Furious Was . . . Bush’s Fault - By Andrew C. McCarthy - The Corner - National Review Online


2. For some reason, the Bush administration project had better restrictions and fail-safe considerations...and stopped the plan when guns continued to get through.

a. Was that because the ATF under Bush was smarter?

b. Actually...in the OP you learn that the real reason was that the Obama administration plan was designed to actually allow functioning guns to get to the drug cartels.
Get it?
The plan did a poor job of tracking the guns because it was designed to do just that!!!

Why?

Because the Obama-Holder D o J wanted to be able to point to the cartel-owned guns as a reason to blunt the recent conservative Supreme Court 2nd amendment decisons.

3. Now that CBS (will wonders never cease?) revealed the emails that indicate this, Obama-apologists, that would be you, pretend not to understand this....

...Somehow, when it indicts the Leftists, you guys can never seem to connect the dots.

So, let's review:
a. While the Bush project controlled the gun movement, the Obama-Holder plan allowed the guns to 'walk.'

b. In what seemed to be the usual Obama-incompetence, there was actually an ulterior, and sinister, motive: to undermine by surreptitious means what the Leftists saw the Supreme Court validate, the rights of Americans under the Constitution.


On the other hand, I do have a certain amount of sympathy for the Left when it has to rely on someone with your limited ability to defend it....
__________________

1. Carried out quietly and without public controversy. Nice. Isn't that just another way of saying you didn't get caught? Congratulations. You HID your failure well. Do you want a cookie for that or will a "heckuva job" suffice? Bush let the guns walk too. UNDISPUTED FACT.

From the article I posted, had you bothered to read it....

The first known ATF "gunwalking" operation to Mexican drug cartels, named Operation Wide Receiver, began in early 2006 and ran into 2007. The ATF was informed of a suspicious gun purchase by licensed dealer Mike Detty in Tucson, Arizona. He was then hired as a confidential informant working with the ATF's Tucson office, part of their Phoenix, Arizona field division. With the use of surveillance equipment, ATF agents monitored additional sales by Detty to straw purchasers. With assurance from ATF "that Mexican officials would be conducting surveillance or interdictions when guns got to the other side of the border",[18] Detty would sell a total of about 450 guns during the operation.[17] They were eventually lost as they moved into Mexico.[6][19]
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
CAN YOU READ? Does that sound like they "controlled" the gun movement?

The difference here is between 450 guns under Bush and 700 under Obama, conducted by the SAME ATF personnel.

2. Better restrictions and fail safe policies? Like watching the guns go over the border and waiting for Mexican officials to pick up the slack, which they didn't? That's ALMOST as smart as letting our allies capture Osama Bin Laden at Tora Bora, isn't it?

Face it, this isn't an embarrassment for Obama in any other respect that he didn't CLEAN UP YOUR MESS fast enough or to your liking.

FACTS:
450 Guns went into Mexico untracked under Bush.
Same personnel that conducted that failure, conducted the SAME one that you're bitching about now.
Obama actually PROSECUTED CRIMINALS that the Bush administration let walk in Operation Wide Receiver.

Come back when you figure out how something that started under Bush, didn't result in ANY prosecutions or red flags for that administration, is now a HUGE problem for Obama and Holder, who HALTED it when they found out about it?

Your lock step acceptance of the views of the Left make you appear more like iron filings in a magnetic field than a thinking human being.

Read

the

emails.

They document exactly what I say in OP....
The Obama-Holder plan was not about guns....it was about new restrictions on gun owners.

Need a review? Sure...from the CBS story:
"...emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". "
"...ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."


Neither the provenance nor the objective of the two operations were the same.


One was designed to stem the flow of guns.

The other to subvert the Constitution.
That is the perennial motivation of the Left.

I understand that the difference is too...what ...nuanced...subtle for you...but the American people will understand it.


I understand your desire to defend Obama and Holder, as the three of you share the same
delusions of adequacy.
And...I do get a chuckle out of you tap-dancing as fast as you can.


The emails.
Read 'em and try again.

 

[paulitician]

Brian Terry died because of some evil corrupt Government monsters. It was all about pushing their Anti-Gun political agenda. They intentionally armed these cartels to ramp up the violence on the border. They believed they could use this increase in gun violence to get their agenda through. And now Brian Terry and counteless others are dead. Someone will have to be brought to justice over this.