Falmouth Mass may dismantle wind turbines due to illnesses

[RGR]

In summary:

These people criticized something you support, so you decide they're lying, and even if they are getting sick, they DESERVE it.

That about cover it, you self-important little prick?

Nope, thou of no reading comprehension and a desperate need to put words in the mouths of others. What I support is domestic energy production of all types, and windmills just happen to be one of those types, nothing special about it.

My animosity, having experienced it any many levels before and recognizing it in s split second, is directed toward NIMBYs.

Be they fracking NIMBYs, windmill NIMBYs, coal mining NIMBYs, railroad track NIMBYs, nuke plant NIMBYs, this particular subset of modern America has forgotten, nowadays may not even know, HOW America became a country of wealth and power, and how NIMBYs had nothing to do with it.

NIMBYism is nothing but those who would denigrate from a position only made possible by the very mechanisms they are denigrating. Hypocrites. Combined with the attitude of "I am owed" it leads to people saying whatever it takes to dodge their personal stake in the system they have profited so richly from.

 

[flacaltenn]

See this url 4 tech details of sound levels measured...

http://randacoustics.com/wind-turbi...-sound-quality/ [quote="RGR, post: 7930111"]

These things have enough power to establish beat frequencies and modulate each other, making the sounds very unpredictable and annoying..

So how long would I have to stand at the base of one of these things to be able to hear these noises that Daveman says are happening 24/7 and causing people to claim sickness from it?

If I stand in the middle of a bunch of them will there be a better chance I can hear them? I regularly pass by the wind farm in Salinas Kansas, I can get beside quite a few of them next time and check out this theory, them being intermittent in noise emissions, and only occasionally annoying. Of course, I have to be able to hear them first, of course.[/QUOTE]

So u r rejecting peer reviewed medical science and an audio demonstration AND expert testimony from folks telling you that sum total noise is highly variable? Do I have that right..?

Seems to me the best u could do from that position is to be a major enviro hypocrite.

instead u provide a personal anecdote from an unspecified observation period among unspecifiednsizes of wind turbines? How stupid do u think I am?

 

[Ernie S.]

A wee bit of a conflict of interest I see. Only people who share your agenda could possibly get sick due to the product of some evil corporation. Silly hypocrite. Go away!

 

[jon_berzerk]

The junk technology doesn't produce enough energy to be meaningful to anybody but the radical left and when you factor in the cost of maintenance and fossil fuel energy to keep the monsters running it is not cost effective. If you include the credible evidence of health issues from living near a gigantic low frequency generator and the injury to migratory wildlife it's a freaking failure.

Unless of course you measure success by megawatt age, in which case the 60,000 megawatts generated in 2012 sure counts as something other than a freaking failure!! Somebody sure didn't object to running their refrigerator, turning on their lights, or in my case fueling my car!!

the US used 3,886,400,000 megawatts of electrical power in 2012. You are talking 1 MW in 65,000, statistically insignificant. You would need a wind farm the size of Texas to supply the needs of the country, if you could depend of 365 windy days/year state wide.

and not too windy

too much wind shuts them down as well

pretty fickle

 

[daveman]

Supporting the domestic production of fuel for automobiles can almost under no circumstances be configured as a "disaster"...

So, in addition to opposing the EPA's restrictions on CO2 aimed at crippling the coal industry, you also support drilling for American oil.

 

[daveman]

In summary:

These people criticized something you support, so you decide they're lying, and even if they are getting sick, they DESERVE it.

That about cover it, you self-important little prick?

Nope, thou of no reading comprehension and a desperate need to put words in the mouths of others. What I support is domestic energy production of all types, and windmills just happen to be one of those types, nothing special about it.

My animosity, having experienced it any many levels before and recognizing it in s split second, is directed toward NIMBYs.

Be they fracking NIMBYs, windmill NIMBYs, coal mining NIMBYs, railroad track NIMBYs, nuke plant NIMBYs, this particular subset of modern America has forgotten, nowadays may not even know, HOW America became a country of wealth and power, and how NIMBYs had nothing to do with it.

NIMBYism is nothing but those who would denigrate from a position only made possible by the very mechanisms they are denigrating. Hypocrites. Combined with the attitude of "I am owed" it leads to people saying whatever it takes to dodge their personal stake in the system they have profited so richly from.

So, I was right. They DESERVE to get sick.

Look, Skippy, you don't get a say in things that happen outside your community. I hope at least that your self-important rants provide you with some aerobic benefit, because that's ALL they're going to do. Falmouth will do what it wants. Your input is neither sought nor required; they will make the decision for themselves.

Do you perhaps begin to understand your absolute impotence here? Is that why you're lashing out so emotionally?

 

[flacaltenn]

For those of you interested in the objective measurements and analysis of this problem --- here is an excellent summary...

Wind turbine noise, an independent assessment | Rand Acoustics

Wind turbines larger than one megawatt of rated power have become an unexpected surprise for many nearby residents by being much louder than expected. The sounds produced by blades, gearing, and generator are significantly louder and more noticeable as wind turbine size increases. Long blades create a distinctive aerodynamic sound as air shears off the trailing edge and tip. The sound character varies from a “whoosh” at low wind speeds to “a jet plane that never lands” at moderate and higher wind speeds. Blade-induced air vortices spinning off the tip may produce an audible “thump” as each blade sweeps past the mast. Thumping can become more pronounced at distance, described as “sneakers in a dryer,” when sounds from multiple turbines arrive at a listener’s position simultaneously.

Wind turbines are not synchronized and so thumps may arrive together or separately, creating an unpredictable or chaotic acoustic pattern. The sounds of large industrial wind turbines have been documented as clearly audible for miles. They are intrusive sounds that are uncharacteristic of a natural soundscape.

Studies have shown that people respond to changes in sound level and sound character in a predictable manner. A noticeable change in sound level of 5 decibels (dB) may result in “no response” to “sporadic complaints.” An increase of 10 dB may yield “widespread complaints,”; a 15 dB increase “threats of legal action.”

The strongest negative community response occurs with an increase of 20 dB or more, resulting in “vigorous objections.” Audible tones, variability in sound level, and an unnatural sound character can amplify the public response. For a distinctive or unpleasant sound, a small change in sound level, or the sound simply being audible, may provoke a strong community response. Community response can intensify further if sleep is disturbed and quality of life or property is degraded.

Weather conditions influence the sound level generated and how it travels to nearby homes. Sound waves expand outward from the wind turbine with the higher frequencies attenuating at a faster rate than low frequencies. Locations beyond a few thousand feet may be dominated by low frequency sounds generated by the wind turbines. Wind turbulence and icing, both common in New England due to topography and latitude, increase aerodynamic noise from intensified or chaotic dynamic stall conditions along the blade surfaces. Atmospheric conditions at night and downwind enhance sound propagation toward the ground by increasing levels over longer distances. Wind turbines are elevated hundreds of feet to receive stronger winds yet winds down on the ground or in nearby valleys may be non-existent with correspondingly low background sound levels, accentuating the impact of the intrusive sounds.

Other professionals have developed thresholds, or criteria, for sound level to protect public health that may be applied to planning for wind turbine permitting. Recommendations from Hayes McKenzie Partnership in 2006 limited maximum wind turbine sound levels at residences to 38 dBA and no more than 33 dBA when “beating noises” are audible when the turbines spin.

Dan Driscoll presented his analysis in 2009 (Environmental Stakeholder Roundtable on Wind Power, June 16, 2009) with a Composite Noise Rating analysis of 33 dBA to reduce rural community response to the level of “sporadic complaints.”

Michael Nissenbaum issued his findings in 2010 from his medical study at Mars Hill, recommending a 7000-foot setback for public health. The World Health Organization published sound level thresholds of sleep disturbance and adverse health effects from peer-reviewed medical studies (Night Noise Guidelines for Europe, October 2009).

Our next column will compare our sound level versus distance data with these medical, health, and community response criteria and show what distances are necessary to protect public health.

Currently there is no effective, reliable noise mitigation for wind turbines of this size other than shutdown. Therefore, at this time it appears appropriate that proposed wind turbine sites should position wind turbines at least one mile away from residential properties and further for sites with more than one wind turbine. Smaller wind turbines (under one megawatt power rating) produce less noise than those currently being marketed and installed for grid power in Maine; these may be an option when distance is an issue.

 

[RGR]

So u r rejecting peer reviewed medical science and an audio demonstration AND expert testimony from folks telling you that sum total noise is highly variable? Do I have that right..?

Of course you don't. I take your word for everything electrical, and if you tell me that windmills are so noisily powerful, but intermittent in nature, I believe you. Even though your representation of the noise is different from Daveman, who appears to want to believe that they make this noise all the time which makes people sick.

Having sat there and listened to these things, I have decided that if you say they are powerful noise makers, but intermittent, I now need to go eat lunch under them, or dinner, or camp there, or something.

You have to understand, a large part of what I do professionally nowadays involves real world testing of ideas, concepts, that sort of stuff, primarily from the academic perspective. So when someone says these things cause people to be sick from the noise they make, I expect to be able to walk up to one, eat a sandwich under that big swinging blade, and HEAR something annoying. Loud. SOMETHING.

On your word alone, I shall now endeavor to take more time the next time I try this experiment, and see if there is any sign whatsoever of these noises that NIMBYs are trying to use to discourage use of domestically generated electricity.

 

[RGR]

the US used 3,886,400,000 megawatts of electrical power in 2012. You are talking 1 MW in 65,000, statistically insignificant. You would need a wind farm the size of Texas to supply the needs of the country, if you could depend of 365 windy days/year state wide.

Good thing then that America is not so stupid as to rely on only a single source for electrical generation. And if all politics are local, the idea of power generation being similar strikes me as a much better idea than windmills anyway (I defend windmills because I defend all domestic power production).

 

[RGR]

Supporting the domestic production of fuel for automobiles can almost under no circumstances be configured as a "disaster"...

So, in addition to opposing the EPA's restrictions on CO2 aimed at crippling the coal industry, you also support drilling for American oil.

Are you kidding? Drilling for American oil is something I once did for a living. Nowadays I have expanded my horizon, in terms of what I support, and I support all domestic power generation of all sizes and shapes.

Windmills are okay. I like PV better. I'm a fan of natural gas if only because A) the sheer abundance of the stuff, and B) the cost of the stuff and C) it requires drilling to get it nowadays and I am partial to good old fashioned American know how and oil field work compared to the mamby pamby jobs most people seem to gravitate towards nowadays.

Microgeneration anyone? That combined with panels on the roof and garage is probably the best near term solution in my book, and would cover my electrical needs including fueling the car.

Dad was a coal miner, so I can't object to coal much, and certainly I think oil is a dirty fuel rapidly becoming obsolete but it'll be around for awhile yet because the stuff is just so damn useful as a chemical feedstock to manufacture stuff from.

 

[RGR]

So, I was right. They DESERVE to get sick.

I certainly didn't say that. Perhaps that is why you are having such a tough time understanding the basics here, just read what is written, you don't have to make up some scheme of your own to overlay someone else's words.

Look, Skippy, you don't get a say in things that happen outside your community.

I understand that completely. I have been offering an opinion on the NIMBYs, based on decades of experience dealing with them, nothing more.

Do you perhaps begin to understand your absolute impotence here? Is that why you're lashing out so emotionally?

I haven't been emotional since the age of 12. Well, not quite, my daughter being born was quite the experience.

 

[RGR]

Just found some of the NIMBYs! Wasn't hard.

Wind Turbine Syndrome!!

I like it!! Sounds like they are following the fracking NIMBY guide to the letter! Come up with a cool catch phrase, sounds all bad, like Munchhausen Syndrome...all medical even!

Wind Turbine Syndrome | Wind Turbine Syndrome in Massachusetts (again)

And look! Turns out, you can get this disease even without the wind turbines, it being one of those "all over" diseases, apparently related to just...living somewhere!! Just find something you live next to which isn't nice...like say a farm...no...can't be a farm...the cows make more noise than wind turbines do....maybe a forest? Yes! A forest! Only living near a forest...except...when the wind blows....then all the leaves rustling will cause this thing. Hell, I don't know, but it was written by someone expert!

Just pick a symptom and you too can have this disease! Sort of like...laziness!

"Since publishing the book in late 2009, Pierpont has heard from people around the world who are discovering that Wind Turbine Syndrome is not confined to living in the shadow of industrial wind turbines. It turns out people suffer identical symptoms from living close to natural gas compressor stations, industrial sewage pumping stations, industrial air conditioners, and other power plants. In each case, low frequency noise and infrasound appear to be the chief disease-causing culprit—basically, Wind Turbine Syndrome without the turbines."

 

[flacaltenn]

So u r rejecting peer reviewed medical science and an audio demonstration AND expert testimony from folks telling you that sum total noise is highly variable? Do I have that right..?

Of course you don't. I take your word for everything electrical, and if you tell me that windmills are so noisily powerful, but intermittent in nature, I believe you. Even though your representation of the noise is different from Daveman, who appears to want to believe that they make this noise all the time which makes people sick.

Having sat there and listened to these things, I have decided that if you say they are powerful noise makers, but intermittent, I now need to go eat lunch under them, or dinner, or camp there, or something.

You have to understand, a large part of what I do professionally nowadays involves real world testing of ideas, concepts, that sort of stuff, primarily from the academic perspective. So when someone says these things cause people to be sick from the noise they make, I expect to be able to walk up to one, eat a sandwich under that big swinging blade, and HEAR something annoying. Loud. SOMETHING.

On your word alone, I shall now endeavor to take more time the next time I try this experiment, and see if there is any sign whatsoever of these noises that NIMBYs are trying to use to discourage use of domestically generated electricity.

Don't say I didn't warn you about the bird guts getting into your lunch.. And try and find some that are at 0.5MWatt and mixed with some monsters.

Oh and bring the Excedrin and the ear plugs if you plan to spend the night..

Oh and you might pack a bag with a change of clothes.. On a slow week --- you might have to wait a couple days for them to turn.... ROFLing...

 

[RGR]

Don't say I didn't warn you about the bird guts getting into your lunch.. And try and find some that are at 0.5MWatt and mixed with some monsters.

I shall heed your advice and bring an umbrella. Or a tent. Or something to protect me from the legions of dead animals falling from the sky, struck down by the awesome power of ingenuity erected to fuel the world of today. And tomorrow.

Oh and bring the Excedrin and the ear plugs if you plan to spend the night..

We shall see. Certainly if it is so irritating that I need Excedrin I will leave quickly and report back immediately that my initial assessment was incorrect. I am nothing if not honest on matters of scientific curiosity.

Oh and you might pack a bag with a change of clothes.. On a slow week --- you might have to wait a couple days for them to turn.... ROFLing...

I have driven through the windfarm on I70 on at least...oh....15 or 25 occasions so far? I would estimate from memory that on no more than 1 or 2 of those occasions have the blades not been turning. You do know what the word "Kansas" means to the Sioux, right? And based on my experience driving a car through there monthly, they sure had this one pegged long before my car or those windmills came along.

 

[daveman]

So, I was right. They DESERVE to get sick.

I certainly didn't say that. Perhaps that is why you are having such a tough time understanding the basics here, just read what is written, you don't have to make up some scheme of your own to overlay someone else's words.

Actually, you DID say that.

Look, Skippy, you don't get a say in things that happen outside your community.

I understand that completely. I have been offering an opinion on the NIMBYs, based on decades of experience dealing with them, nothing more.

Uh huh. You're telling them they should shut up and be grateful for the turbines that are making them sick -- oh, wait, that's right. You're claiming they're LYING about being sick.

Do you perhaps begin to understand your absolute impotence here? Is that why you're lashing out so emotionally?

I haven't been emotional since the age of 12. Well, not quite, my daughter being born was quite the experience.

Your posts in this thread suggest I'm right.

 

[daveman]

Just found some of the NIMBYs! Wasn't hard.

Wind Turbine Syndrome!!

I like it!! Sounds like they are following the fracking NIMBY guide to the letter! Come up with a cool catch phrase, sounds all bad, like Munchhausen Syndrome...all medical even!

Wind Turbine Syndrome | Wind Turbine Syndrome in Massachusetts (again)

And look! Turns out, you can get this disease even without the wind turbines, it being one of those "all over" diseases, apparently related to just...living somewhere!! Just find something you live next to which isn't nice...like say a farm...no...can't be a farm...the cows make more noise than wind turbines do....maybe a forest? Yes! A forest! Only living near a forest...except...when the wind blows....then all the leaves rustling will cause this thing. Hell, I don't know, but it was written by someone expert!

Just pick a symptom and you too can have this disease! Sort of like...laziness!

"Since publishing the book in late 2009, Pierpont has heard from people around the world who are discovering that Wind Turbine Syndrome is not confined to living in the shadow of industrial wind turbines. It turns out people suffer identical symptoms from living close to natural gas compressor stations, industrial sewage pumping stations, industrial air conditioners, and other power plants. In each case, low frequency noise and infrasound appear to be the chief disease-causing culprit—basically, Wind Turbine Syndrome without the turbines."

Yup. Sheer emotionalism.

 

[mamooth]

Dave and Flac are probably planning some phony disability claims based on this. Hence their rage. You're interfering with their gravy train.

 

[whitehall]

Unless of course you measure success by megawattage, in which case the 60,000 megawatts generated in 2012 sure counts as something other than a freaking failure!! Somebody sure didn't object to running their refrigerator, turning on their lights, or in my case fueling my car!!

"Success by megawatt age"? What the hell does that mean?

Sorry. Megawattage.

The 60k megawatts produced on a good day with support from fossil fuel is a freaking failure by the standards we set for energy efficiency.

We? You have a frog in your pocket? Because to me, as a consumer, that 60,000 megawatts is 60,000 megawatts of fuel for cars which won't be funding jihadists. Lower efficiency in some academic sense which involves not getting an American soldier killed defending the oil fields of someone who hates us is a win-win as far as I'm concerned.

Lower efficiency but less of a need for dead American soldiers, please sir, can I have some more? How about, a BUNCH more?

When you factor in the evidence that the monster windmills actually kill migratory species and might cause illness to persons who live nearby it is a disaster.

No, a disaster is letting young Americans get shot at and killed because soccer moms think it is necessary to use 5000# of steel, rubber, glass and plastic on wheels to take Lil' Johnny to Little League practice. Supporting the domestic production of fuel for automobiles can almost under no circumstances be configured as a "disaster", versus the price america has paid by the morons who think it is a commie plot, people asking that they care, just a little, about no longer doing this.

Does the left really dwell in a fantasy world where windmills replace fossil fuel? If so, God help us for the last fifty years of union based education system. It ain't gonna freaking happen. The system don't work. Migratory birds are being killed and people are getting sick and when you factor in the the fossil fuel needed to maintain the monstrosities that take a lot more than 5000# to construct and the amount of space they need and the amount of energy they produce on a good day...the equation freaking don't work.

 

[Old Rocks]

Yes, fossil fuels are going to be replaced. By wind, solar, geothermal, nuclear, and the other clean sources of power. Five years ago, the solar industry was talking about the pie-in-the-sky idea of 1$ a watt solar panels. Now, there are cheaper panels on sale to the public.

Solar Panels from Wholesale Solar

And, today, the goal is 0.25$ a watt. And it won't take five years to get there.

I have stood under wind mills south of Biggs Junction in Oregon. For me, all I heard was a gentle swoosh, swoosh. Since I have worked in steel mills and sawmills most of my life, the sound was hardly disturbing. In fact, on streets near the freeways, the sound is much more intense from the traffic. Perhaps we should shut down all traffic on freeways in the cities to protect your so sensitive ears.

Wind is working well, and more is going in every day in states all across the nation. You luddites are just flapping your gums uselessly.

 

[daveman]

Dave and Flac are probably planning some phony disability claims based on this. Hence their rage. You're interfering with their gravy train.

It's cute how you just mindlessly lash out.