Falmouth Mass may dismantle wind turbines due to illnesses

[RGR]

So...they should just STFU and put up with headaches, dizziness and sleep deprivation and not being able to enjoy their property...because they use electricity?


Ummm...no. Fix the turbines to alleviate the adverse health effects, or take 'em down.

You don't get to make that decision for them. You really need to understand that.

I already understand why, and how, NIMBYs go about trying to change something that has already happened, like their being confronted with the cost of the benefit they wish to enjoy.

So of course I wouldn't make a decision for a NIMBY, I made it for myself, personal responsibility, lets not forget. But I won't declare hysterical consequences for my solar panels, I won't get dizzy because someone (me!) is making power MUCH closer than 1/4 mile to my bedroom, I won't whine to the paper and try and convince my neighbors to backup my story, no need. Understand the cost to the benefit lifestyle we enjoy, and take responsibility for your part of it.

 

[daveman]

Question:

How do you hear a turbine and feel the effects it produces BEFORE it's built?

The same way I did. Admittedly, I am a naturally curious guy, but when taking personal responsibility for my energy use sometimes it requires tremendous effort! In the case of the windmills,I got off the interstate, drove up to the base of one of these monsters, and just sat there and was amazed by it. These are about 400 miles away from my house, so you can't say I didn't give it a good college try! The dumbasses who are now complaining could have sure done the same.

Smoky Hills Wind Farm - I-70 in Kansas

And you know they're the SAME model turbines with the SAME airfoil shape and the SAME low-frequency harmonics...how, exactly?

Oh, that's right -- you don't. You THINK you do -- but you don't.

And others are 100% dependent on fossil fuels.

Like I said, personal responsibility, a lost art in America. One which we should get back to, but those who can't be bothered with due diligence don't get to BITCH about how the demand they are creating is supplied.

You seem to have conveniently forgotten something:

The turbine manufacturers had a responsibility to build a safe product.

Apparently, they didn't.

But whatever you do, don't blame them for making people sick! You'll lose your Greener Than Thou street cred!

My agenda is that of personal responsibility. They want to sit in the cold and dark? Certainly I don't care if that is what they want to do. Conversely, I also don't object to them sitting in the light and heat...I only object to them bitching about what the world does to give them what they want as though they bear no personal responsibility.

You sure an angry little dweeb.

The turbines in the OP suck. They need to be modified, or they need to come down. "Making the local residents sick" is NOT an option.

And if the well and refinery were putting out toxic fumes that sickened you, would you bitch like a school girl?

Hint: Yes. Yes, you would.

Fortunately windmills don't give off toxic fumes so that certainly can't be the bitch from the NIMBYs now can it? As far as living near a REAL refinery versus the kind I have creating fuel for my car, the solution is obvious. Don't live near the refinery if you don't want to be bothered by it. The NIMBYs can do the same with windmills, but they don't have to obviously because they aren't putting off toxic fumes.

But they are making people sick.

And you WOULD bitch like a schoolgirl if your local refinery was making you sick. I know it, you know it. Be a man and admit it.

You don't get to decide that the problems other people have are less important than you feeling smug about saving the planet.

I get to decide that people who want the benefit without the cost are clueless about where their lifestyle comes from and don't get to BITCH about it after they find out. But what they CAN do is not be hypocrites, but what are the odds that happening? Easy solution, doubt they ever even consider more than bitching. Hyperpocrites are like that.

What's hypocritical about not wanting to be sick and sleep-deprived?

Why do you refuse to hold the turbine manufacturer accountable for making a bad product?

In other words, what the hell is wrong with you?

 

[daveman]

Ummm...yes, they do. I don't know if you're from America or not, but we have the freedom of speech here.

Sure, but that doesn't include making up sicknesses generated from windmills. America is also litigious out the wazoo and their are no limits to the lengths to which the NIMBYs will go to try and escape the cost of their lifestyle.

People can say what they want -- even if it hurts someone's widdle feewings.

Sure they can. They can even pretend to be sick and hope they can convince their neighbors to force the cost of their lifestyle on others.

And you have proof they're lying, of course.

Wait -- what? You DON'T have proof? Just wishful thinking and a mindless need to defend crappy green energy "solutions"?

Well, then. I think your horsecrap can safely be dismissed.

 

[daveman]

So...they should just STFU and put up with headaches, dizziness and sleep deprivation and not being able to enjoy their property...because they use electricity?


Ummm...no. Fix the turbines to alleviate the adverse health effects, or take 'em down.

You don't get to make that decision for them. You really need to understand that.

I already understand why, and how, NIMBYs go about trying to change something that has already happened, like their being confronted with the cost of the benefit they wish to enjoy.

So of course I wouldn't make a decision for a NIMBY, I made it for myself, personal responsibility, lets not forget. But I won't declare hysterical consequences for my solar panels, I won't get dizzy because someone (me!) is making power MUCH closer than 1/4 mile to my bedroom, I won't whine to the paper and try and convince my neighbors to backup my story, no need. Understand the cost to the benefit lifestyle we enjoy, and take responsibility for your part of it.

Then you oppose the EPA's new regulations on coal.

Hey, people getting sick is just one of the costs to the benefit lifestyle we enjoy, right?

 

[flacaltenn]

So you're OK with making people sick if it suits your agenda?
But killing babies is "choice"?

People aren't getting sick because of nearby windmills. They are CLAIMING they are getting sick because of the windmills. Quite a difference.

And also quite common among the NIMBY set, the first line of defense in the modern world to something you disagree with is to find some basis to file a lawsuit. Sickness is a good one, psychological damage from noise (ever been within 1/4 mile of a wind turbine? I have...not sure I could even hear the blades moving to be honest, maybe a sort of hum? Low frequency kind of thing?), just take whatever the high voltage power line folks have been pretending ails them all these years and say the same things.

Problem solved.

Nope.. Well documented that the noise levels from megaWatt wind turbines exceed MANY suggested levels.. At nominal speeds, it's equivalent to a turboprop commuter plane..

EXCEPT --- it doesn't go away in a minute or an hour.. Widely accepted that wildlife within a couple mile radius WILL BE AFFECTED..

So the fledgling wind industry makes the same mistakes in siting these useless gimmicks that the nuclear industry did back in the 50s and 60s.. Seems like anything deemed clean and green gets NO scrutiny or impact analysis..

SITING IS AN ISSUE ---- and any current installations that violate OSHA or other recommendation levels should be removed..

 

[jon_berzerk]

Noise pollution

Little Raith Wind Farm

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79aARWPalt4]Wind Turbine Noise - YouTube[/ame]

 

[flacaltenn]

Ummm...yes, they do. I don't know if you're from America or not, but we have the freedom of speech here.

Sure, but that doesn't include making up sicknesses generated from windmills. America is also litigious out the wazoo and their are no limits to the lengths to which the NIMBYs will go to try and escape the cost of their lifestyle.

People can say what they want -- even if it hurts someone's widdle feewings.

Sure they can. They can even pretend to be sick and hope they can convince their neighbors to force the cost of their lifestyle on others.

What you did to "listen" to a wind turbine was laudible but very unscientific..
These things have enough power to establish beat frequencies and modulate each other, making the sounds very unpredictable and annoying..

Wind farm noise does harm sleep and health, say scientists - Telegraph

Wind farm noise causes “clear and significant” damage to people’s sleep and mental
health, according to the first full peer-reviewed scientific study of the problem.

Unlike some common forms of sleep-disturbing noise, such as roads, wind turbine
noise varies dramatically, depending on the wind direction and speed. Unlike other
forms of variable noise, however, such as railways and aircraft, it can continue
for very long periods at a time. The nature of the noise — a rhythmic beating or swooshing of the blades — is also disturbing. UK planning guidance allows a night-time noise level from wind farms of 42 decibels – equivalent to the hum made by a fridge.

This means that turbines cannot be built less than 380-550 yards from human
habitation, with the exact distance depending on the terrain and the size of the
turbines.

However, as local concern about wind farm noise grows, many councils are now
drawing up far wider cordons. Wiltshire, for instance, has recently voted to adopt
minimum distances of between 0.6 to 1.8 miles, depending on the size of the
turbines.

Probably wise eh?? REASONABLE people wouldn't object to health standards determined by scientific method ------ would they?

Insisting it's all imagined or "made up" for political reasons isn't gonna fly..

 

[daveman]

So...they should just STFU and put up with headaches, dizziness and sleep deprivation and not being able to enjoy their property...because they use electricity?


Ummm...no. Fix the turbines to alleviate the adverse health effects, or take 'em down.

You don't get to make that decision for them. You really need to understand that.

I already understand why, and how, NIMBYs go about trying to change something that has already happened, like their being confronted with the cost of the benefit they wish to enjoy.

So of course I wouldn't make a decision for a NIMBY, I made it for myself, personal responsibility, lets not forget. But I won't declare hysterical consequences for my solar panels, I won't get dizzy because someone (me!) is making power MUCH closer than 1/4 mile to my bedroom, I won't whine to the paper and try and convince my neighbors to backup my story, no need. Understand the cost to the benefit lifestyle we enjoy, and take responsibility for your part of it.

Then you oppose the EPA's new regulations on coal.

Hey, people getting sick is just one of the costs to the benefit lifestyle we enjoy, right?

Ummm...where'd he go?

 

[flacaltenn]

I already understand why, and how, NIMBYs go about trying to change something that has already happened, like their being confronted with the cost of the benefit they wish to enjoy.

So of course I wouldn't make a decision for a NIMBY, I made it for myself, personal responsibility, lets not forget. But I won't declare hysterical consequences for my solar panels, I won't get dizzy because someone (me!) is making power MUCH closer than 1/4 mile to my bedroom, I won't whine to the paper and try and convince my neighbors to backup my story, no need. Understand the cost to the benefit lifestyle we enjoy, and take responsibility for your part of it.

Then you oppose the EPA's new regulations on coal.

Hey, people getting sick is just one of the costs to the benefit lifestyle we enjoy, right?

Ummm...where'd he go?

He's driving back that 400 miles to camp out under stars beneath those lovely turbines..
Hope he doesn't get sprinkled with bat bodies or raptor guts.. ... and that he gets a good night's sleep...

 

[whitehall]

The junk technology doesn't produce enough energy to be meaningful to anybody but the radical left and when you factor in the cost of maintenance and fossil fuel energy to keep the monsters running it is not cost effective. If you include the credible evidence of health issues from living near a gigantic low frequency generator and the injury to migratory wildlife it's a freaking failure.

 

[RGR]

And you know they're the SAME model turbines with the SAME airfoil shape and the SAME low-frequency harmonics...how, exactly?

I don't. Anymore than I know that those whining about being near power lines were only whining about a particular KIND of power line, you know how voltages change the low level hum to another kind of low level hum, one not being near as annoying as the other.

The problem isn't the alleged noise making people sick of course, but how NIMBYs complain to get their way.

You seem to have conveniently forgotten something:

The turbine manufacturers had a responsibility to build a safe product.

Apparently, they didn't.

Apparently they did. I haven't seen a single person bashed upside the head by one of those blades yet. Those boys built a wonderful thing, keeps the blade way above the heads of any stupid humans wandering around in the neighborhood.

You sure an angry little dweeb.

Nah. Just a low tolerance for whiners who eschew personal responsibility in their lifestyle choices.

But they are making people sick.

No....people are CLAIMING that the windmills are making them sick. Just like people CLAIM that it is fracking chemicals in their water making them sick...except for the part about fracking not actually being in their water.

Some just are gullible, and will use any excuse available to fight against <fill in your favorite>. In this case, we've got NIMBYs and windmills. They are hardly the first to sudden "discover" sickness when something they don't like happens nearby.

What's hypocritical about not wanting to be sick and sleep-deprived?

Nothing. The hypocritical part relates to those who bitch about that which provides them the position to bitch from.

 

[RGR]

Well documented that the noise levels from megaWatt wind turbines exceed MANY suggested levels.. At nominal speeds, it's equivalent to a turboprop commuter plane..

Really? Interesting....then why can't they be heard very easily when you stand next to them? Are the sounds measured right next to the main section where the blades tie together, up high, rather than where I stand on the ground listening to them?

 

[RGR]

These things have enough power to establish beat frequencies and modulate each other, making the sounds very unpredictable and annoying..

So how long would I have to stand at the base of one of these things to be able to hear these noises that Daveman says are happening 24/7 and causing people to claim sickness from it?

If I stand in the middle of a bunch of them will there be a better chance I can hear them? I regularly pass by the wind farm in Salinas Kansas, I can get beside quite a few of them next time and check out this theory, them being intermittent in noise emissions, and only occasionally annoying. Of course, I have to be able to hear them first, of course.

 

[RGR]

The junk technology doesn't produce enough energy to be meaningful to anybody but the radical left and when you factor in the cost of maintenance and fossil fuel energy to keep the monsters running it is not cost effective. If you include the credible evidence of health issues from living near a gigantic low frequency generator and the injury to migratory wildlife it's a freaking failure.

Unless of course you measure success by megawatt age, in which case the 60,000 megawatts generated in 2012 sure counts as something other than a freaking failure!! Somebody sure didn't object to running their refrigerator, turning on their lights, or in my case fueling my car!!

 

[Ernie S.]

These things have enough power to establish beat frequencies and modulate each other, making the sounds very unpredictable and annoying..

So how long would I have to stand at the base of one of these things to be able to hear these noises that Daveman says are happening 24/7 and causing people to claim sickness from it?

If I stand in the middle of a bunch of them will there be a better chance I can hear them? I regularly pass by the wind farm in Salinas Kansas, I can get beside quite a few of them next time and check out this theory, them being intermittent in noise emissions, and only occasionally annoying. Of course, I have to be able to hear them first, of course.

I suggest you camp amid the turbines for 6 months to get the full effect that residents nearby get 24/7/365.
A casual drive and 10 minutes spent there doesn't qualify you to speak about what these people experience all the time.

 

[Ernie S.]

The junk technology doesn't produce enough energy to be meaningful to anybody but the radical left and when you factor in the cost of maintenance and fossil fuel energy to keep the monsters running it is not cost effective. If you include the credible evidence of health issues from living near a gigantic low frequency generator and the injury to migratory wildlife it's a freaking failure.

Unless of course you measure success by megawatt age, in which case the 60,000 megawatts generated in 2012 sure counts as something other than a freaking failure!! Somebody sure didn't object to running their refrigerator, turning on their lights, or in my case fueling my car!!

the US used 3,886,400,000 megawatts of electrical power in 2012. You are talking 1 MW in 65,000, statistically insignificant. You would need a wind farm the size of Texas to supply the needs of the country, if you could depend of 365 windy days/year state wide.

 

[daveman]

And you know they're the SAME model turbines with the SAME airfoil shape and the SAME low-frequency harmonics...how, exactly?

I don't. Anymore than I know that those whining about being near power lines were only whining about a particular KIND of power line, you know how voltages change the low level hum to another kind of low level hum, one not being near as annoying as the other.

The problem isn't the alleged noise making people sick of course, but how NIMBYs complain to get their way.

You seem to have conveniently forgotten something:

The turbine manufacturers had a responsibility to build a safe product.

Apparently, they didn't.

Apparently they did. I haven't seen a single person bashed upside the head by one of those blades yet. Those boys built a wonderful thing, keeps the blade way above the heads of any stupid humans wandering around in the neighborhood.



Nah. Just a low tolerance for whiners who eschew personal responsibility in their lifestyle choices.

But they are making people sick.

No....people are CLAIMING that the windmills are making them sick. Just like people CLAIM that it is fracking chemicals in their water making them sick...except for the part about fracking not actually being in their water.

Some just are gullible, and will use any excuse available to fight against <fill in your favorite>. In this case, we've got NIMBYs and windmills. They are hardly the first to sudden "discover" sickness when something they don't like happens nearby.

What's hypocritical about not wanting to be sick and sleep-deprived?

Nothing. The hypocritical part relates to those who bitch about that which provides them the position to bitch from.

In summary:

These people criticized something you support, so you decide they're lying, and even if they are getting sick, they DESERVE it.

That about cover it, you self-important little prick?

 

[whitehall]

The junk technology doesn't produce enough energy to be meaningful to anybody but the radical left and when you factor in the cost of maintenance and fossil fuel energy to keep the monsters running it is not cost effective. If you include the credible evidence of health issues from living near a gigantic low frequency generator and the injury to migratory wildlife it's a freaking failure.

Unless of course you measure success by megawatt age, in which case the 60,000 megawatts generated in 2012 sure counts as something other than a freaking failure!! Somebody sure didn't object to running their refrigerator, turning on their lights, or in my case fueling my car!!

"Success by megawatt age"? What the hell does that mean? The 60k megawatts produced on a good day with support from fossil fuel is a freaking failure by the standards we set for energy efficiency. When you factor in the evidence that the monster windmills actually kill migratory species and might cause illness to persons who live nearby it is a disaster.

 

[RGR]

Unless of course you measure success by megawattage, in which case the 60,000 megawatts generated in 2012 sure counts as something other than a freaking failure!! Somebody sure didn't object to running their refrigerator, turning on their lights, or in my case fueling my car!!

"Success by megawatt age"? What the hell does that mean?

Sorry. Megawattage.

The 60k megawatts produced on a good day with support from fossil fuel is a freaking failure by the standards we set for energy efficiency.

We? You have a frog in your pocket? Because to me, as a consumer, that 60,000 megawatts is 60,000 megawatts of fuel for cars which won't be funding jihadists. Lower efficiency in some academic sense which involves not getting an American soldier killed defending the oil fields of someone who hates us is a win-win as far as I'm concerned.

Lower efficiency but less of a need for dead American soldiers, please sir, can I have some more? How about, a BUNCH more?

When you factor in the evidence that the monster windmills actually kill migratory species and might cause illness to persons who live nearby it is a disaster.

No, a disaster is letting young Americans get shot at and killed because soccer moms think it is necessary to use 5000# of steel, rubber, glass and plastic on wheels to take Lil' Johnny to Little League practice. Supporting the domestic production of fuel for automobiles can almost under no circumstances be configured as a "disaster", versus the price america has paid by the morons who think it is a commie plot, people asking that they care, just a little, about no longer doing this.

 

[RGR]

I suggest you camp amid the turbines for 6 months to get the full effect that residents nearby get 24/7/365.

Well, apparently these things aren't 24/7, they are intermittent, and might require standing around or living there for quite some time to even notice. Why is it this doesn't sound like something capable of making people sick, if the noise from the turbine is so hard to hear, I might have to live there for 6 months to even NOTICE?

A casual drive and 10 minutes spent there doesn't qualify you to speak about what these people experience all the time.

And these people CLAIMING their symptoms are causal to proximity to wind turbines may not be telling the truth any more true than those claiming abduction by aliens.