Fairness

[NYcarbineer]

Fairness is an illusion. When your sister gets the Barbie doll she wanted, and your big brother gets the bicycle he wanted, and you get the crappy 'nobody wants to play it' candycane slide board game...it is not fair.

Deal with it.

We should deal with it? Obviously you haven't.

 

[California Girl]

That's all I ever hear about from the liberals, we want fairness. So, what exactly is that and how do you achieve it in reality. Fairness based on outcomes? Everybody gets the same paycheck regardless of skill or effort? Or fairness based on equal opportunity? Kinda hard to guarantee that, I would think. Suppose somebody fucks off, do you subsidize him anyway? Step up and explain how the concept of fairness works for you.

it isn't a formulaic thing. it means doing the right thing as you believe it to be. it means everyone having an equal shot.

a foreign concept to randians on the right. but nonetheless....

A level playing field is something that conservatives support. But fairness is not a level playing field to the left. It's equal outcomes... and equal outcomes are only achievable by dragging others down. That ain't our way.

 

[Truthmatters]

Give an example of this "dragging down" you suggest exsists

 

[xsited1]

That's all I ever hear about from the liberals, we want fairness. So, what exactly is that and how do you achieve it in reality. Fairness based on outcomes? Everybody gets the same paycheck regardless of skill or effort? Or fairness based on equal opportunity? Kinda hard to guarantee that, I would think. Suppose somebody fucks off, do you subsidize him anyway? Step up and explain how the concept of fairness works for you.

When a liberal says they want fairness, what they really mean is they want more government control. They want the opposite of freedom, although most either don't know this or won't admit it.

 

[bripat9643]

Fairness | Define Fairness at Dictionary.com


1    /fɛər/ Show Spelled
[fair] Show IPA
adjective, -er, -est, adverb, -er, -est, noun, verb
–adjective
1. free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice: a fair decision; a fair judge.
2. legitimately sought, pursued, done, given, etc.; proper under the rules: a fair fight.

That's the rightwing definition of "fairness:" equal enforcement of the laws.

However, libs always claim the laws are "unfair," so they have a different definition. None you has posted your actually working definition.

 

[Truthmatters]

Sorry but its the right who tries to redefine words not the left.

 

[California Girl]

Give an example of this "dragging down" you suggest exsists

I didn't suggest it 'exsists', moron. I said that equal outcomes is the 'fairness' of the left. Please learn basic comprehension... otherwise I'm gonna have to call you a fucking idiot - again.

Oh, and please learn basic spelling.

 

[Truthmatters]

so the left does not drag others down to help people, Im glad you agree

 

[California Girl]

so the left does not drag others down to help people, Im glad you agree

Not for the lack of trying. It's what the left want. They just haven't achieved it.... at least not fully. You've won a few... we've won a few. The war is still being fought... not that you'd know that, because there's no wiki link to it. idiot.

 

[bripat9643]

You are an absolutist, aren't you? You want a definite answer... well let me clue you in on something... there is no definite answer.

ROFL! So you admit you can't define it. Yet, you want the government to craft legislation based on it. What could possible more arbitrary or totalitarian than bureaucrats deciding according to their own personal whims what "fairness" means?

How do you propose for the government to implement something you can't explain?

You call it weaseling... I call it dynamic. When one side has too much power... the other side rebels. That is the makeup of our system... the founding fathers knew it, rational people know it. You, however... don't.

What does "having too much power" have to do with "fairness?" You're jumping from one nebulous undefined term to another.

Just admit that you haven't got a clue about any rational set of rules for government to follow.

 

[Truthmatters]

just lying to yourself about it doesnt make it true

 

[California Girl]

just lying to yourself about it doesnt make it true

Why are you so arrogant that you think you don't have to address your remarks to an individual?

Or is this more lefty 'fairness'?

idiot.

 

[Lumpy 1]

so the left does not drag others down to help people, Im glad you agree

Liberals seem to believe in limiting success... At a sliding undefined point they believe they can reach into your pocket (legal political thievery) and steal their (unearned) share of your success.

They like to determine who does and doesn't deserve their success.

 

[Harry Dresden]

and here's the political perspectives...

LIBERALS - believe in government action to achieve equal opportunity and equality for all. It is the duty of the government to alleviate social ills and to protect civil liberties and individual and human rights. Believe the role of the government should be to guarantee that no one is in need.

Liberal policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve problems.

--------------

CONSERVATIVES - believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. Believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals.

Conservative policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems.

Conservative vs. Liberal Beliefs

Lumpy...here you said ....LIBERALS - believe in government action to achieve equal opportunity and equality for all.....ok now i am looking at that as.....bigotry against another person will not be allowed.....against the law....
in the Conservative view.....how do they deal with bigotry?.....is it allowed under personal freedoms?.....

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Still no answer. What is fairness? How can you make it work in reality? Who decides what is fair? Come on libs, you bitch about fairness all the time but you can't even define it or figure out how to implement it? Are you going to throw out the free enterprise system? Property rights? What would you want America to be like?

‘Libs’ are as much advocates of free markets and private property as anyone else.

Your confusion may stem from a misinterpretation of how liberals understand the law and due process absent ridged political dogma and their acceptance of the rule of law accordingly. Conservatives, on the other hand, and for the most part, struggle with many concepts of the law and legal principles because those principles – predicated upon an objective analysis of the facts – conflict with established and subjective conservative dogma.

We saw an example of this about a year ago with Rand Paul and his failure to comprehend the Civil Rights Act of 1964. According to Paul, in the context of conservative dogma, the government has no place telling a private business how to operate, including withholding service to African Americans because of their race. What Paul was more then likely not aware of is that the Supreme Court reviewed the constitutionality of the Act. In Heart of Atlanta Motel Inc. v. United States (1964), the Supreme Court ruled that indeed Congress had the Constitutional authority to tell private businesses who they may or may not accommodate if that accommodation is based on race or anther specific classification.

Is that ‘fair’? Perhaps yes, perhaps no – but it is the law of the land and as we are all subject to the rule of law we must accept it, regardless of our subjective opinions or ideology.

It seems ‘libs’ are just better at accepting such things, as they tend to be more pragmatic.

So the issue isn’t whether something is ‘fair’ but is it legal, does it comport to due process and Constitutional case law. Of course everyone doesn’t get the same paycheck regardless of skill or effort, and there’s no way to ‘guarantee’ fairness, nor is there anyone saying there is.

The law affords everyone a process to find relief when injured, but there’s no guarantee the outcome will be what the complainant wishes. If you believe your employer is treating you ‘unfairly,’ as noted there is a process to determine if that is indeed the case.

Otherwise I recommend you research for yourself such questions, rather than depending upon the opinions of others.

 

[Harry Dresden]

IN practice, liberal don't believe in that definition. The laws are equally enforced now, but libturds are still continually whining about "fairness."

they are?......tell that to the kid in prison for 15 years for possession of an ounce of pot not eligible for parole until his tenth year, while some guy who robbed the 7/11 got the same time 15 years but was out in five for "good behavior".......there is equal enforcement for ya....

 

[Lumpy 1]

and here's the political perspectives...

LIBERALS - believe in government action to achieve equal opportunity and equality for all. It is the duty of the government to alleviate social ills and to protect civil liberties and individual and human rights. Believe the role of the government should be to guarantee that no one is in need.

Liberal policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve problems.

--------------

CONSERVATIVES - believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. Believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals.

Conservative policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems.

Conservative vs. Liberal Beliefs

Lumpy...here you said ....LIBERALS - believe in government action to achieve equal opportunity and equality for all.....ok now i am looking at that as.....bigotry against another person will not be allowed.....against the law....
in the Conservative view.....how do they deal with bigotry?.....is it allowed under personal freedoms?.....

First of all .. I merely posted from a link..

I feel, bigotry is a fact of life, a set of beliefs that can't be controlled by government.

I can only control it at a personal level and avoid those whom I disagree with or if their capable of reason, submit my point of view..

 

[Harry Dresden]

Sorry but its the right who tries to redefine words not the left.

you mean like the word......is?....

 

[Harry Dresden]

so the left does not drag others down to help people, Im glad you agree

lots of Democratic policies drag minorities down and then they say they are trying to help them....when in essence they are keeping them down.....

 

[Wiseacre]

When I see that half of the workers in this country do not pay taxes, and some of them even get money from the gov't that they didn't pay in, it's kind of a hard sell to convince me the liberals want equal treatment under the law and equal opportunity in the marketplace. What they want is equality of outcomes, or as close to it as they can get.

They want to redistribute the wealth. No other way to say it, they want to take money from those who earned what they think is too much and give it to somebody else who hasn't earned it. Social democracy it's called, many countries in Europe have followed this policy for decades, and look where it's got them now. Since no one answered my questions in the OP, let's try this one: why do you think it'll work differently for us than it did for them?