Debate Now "Facts" you know that are wrong.

[Wyatt earp]

Liberals saying most Republicans only care about big corporations when they put the brakes on the import.export bank. Which infuriated GE and Boeing

U.S. Export-Import Bank Heading Toward Closure - US News

Money speaks Boeing General Electric cut off donations to Republicans blocking Export-Import Bank - Strange Bedfellows Politics News

ANOTHER right winger who wants to conflate things like liberal/con and Dem/GOP. Shocking

NOT the GOP blocking it, but FARRRR right wing wack jobs (about a dozen right?) like Cruz. DOESN'T change the perception since the GOP WILL get the bill passed and Export bank will glide along!

\

It was attached to the highway bill, they knew the house was not interested.

Put it up on it's own merit .

 

[Dad2three]

The koch brother boogey men

Yes they have Union companies

Support For The Koch Brothers From An Unlikely Source The United Steelworkers RedState

Yes they are against corporate well fare.

Koch calls for unity against corporate welfare - CNNPolitics.com

YOUR FIRST LINK

Jon Geenen, an International Vice President with the United Steelworkers wrote a long post on the union’s blog entitled A Well Intentioned Bad Idea. While Geenen’s post was not a defense of the Koch brothers’ politics, it was a defense of Koch Industries, both as an employer and, more importantly, a unionized employer:

LOL



Koch Brothers Takes $88 Million in Corporate Welfare

Mar 9, 2014 - Koch Brothers likes to champion themselves as crusaders against the welfare state






7 Disturbing Facts About the Koch Brothers' Relationship with Race and Civil Rights
The Kochs are known for destroying the environment, but their civil rights record isn't so great either.

1. Kochs' union-busting efforts hurt African American mobility.

Though unions have been known to increase the economic mobility of African-American workers, Koch-funded organizations have been very active in destroying anything that's left of them. Koch-backed organizations like Americans for Prosperity, the Cato Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and the Reason Foundation have long viewed public sector unions with disdain.

2. Koch brothers' secret billionaire summit hosts known racist.

3. Koch-backed organization blasts AARP over its opposition to Minnesota voter ID amendment.

4. The Kochs fund climate-change denial research that hurts poor communities.

5. The Koch brothers are against raising the minimum wage.

6. David Koch ran on presidential ticket that called for ending Social Security.

7. The Kochs' father was an original member of an anti-civil rights organization.

7 Disturbing Facts About the Koch Brothers Relationship with Race and Civil Rights Alternet


It's Official: One Koch Brother Equals 515,000 Union Members

Comparing The Koch Brothers Influence To Labor The New Republic


11 things the Koch brothers don’t want you to know

1. The family’s $100 billion fortune comes mostly from a massive network of oil and gas pipelines, and investments in other polluting industries like paper and plastics. The brothers inherited the seed money for their holdings from their father Fred Koch, who made his first fortune building oil pipelines for the Russian dictator Joseph Stalin in the 1930s. Back in the states, Fred Koch supported racial segregation and white supremacist groups like the John Birch Society.


11 things the Koch brothers don t want you to know - Salon.com

 

[Dad2three]

Liberals saying most Republicans only care about big corporations when they put the brakes on the import.export bank. Which infuriated GE and Boeing

U.S. Export-Import Bank Heading Toward Closure - US News

Money speaks Boeing General Electric cut off donations to Republicans blocking Export-Import Bank - Strange Bedfellows Politics News

ANOTHER right winger who wants to conflate things like liberal/con and Dem/GOP. Shocking

NOT the GOP blocking it, but FARRRR right wing wack jobs (about a dozen right?) like Cruz. DOESN'T change the perception since the GOP WILL get the bill passed and Export bank will glide along!

\

It was attached to the highway bill, they knew the house was not interested.

Put it up on it's own merit .

Like ALL bills are in Congress right? lol

 

[Wyatt earp]

The koch brother boogey men

Yes they have Union companies

Support For The Koch Brothers From An Unlikely Source The United Steelworkers RedState

Yes they are against corporate well fare.

Koch calls for unity against corporate welfare - CNNPolitics.com

YOUR FIRST LINK

Jon Geenen, an International Vice President with the United Steelworkers wrote a long post on the union’s blog entitled A Well Intentioned Bad Idea. While Geenen’s post was not a defense of the Koch brothers’ politics, it was a defense of Koch Industries, both as an employer and, more importantly, a unionized employer:

LOL



Koch Brothers Takes $88 Million in Corporate Welfare

Mar 9, 2014 - Koch Brothers likes to champion themselves as crusaders against the welfare state






7 Disturbing Facts About the Koch Brothers' Relationship with Race and Civil Rights
The Kochs are known for destroying the environment, but their civil rights record isn't so great either.

1. Kochs' union-busting efforts hurt African American mobility.

Though unions have been known to increase the economic mobility of African-American workers, Koch-funded organizations have been very active in destroying anything that's left of them. Koch-backed organizations like Americans for Prosperity, the Cato Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and the Reason Foundation have long viewed public sector unions with disdain.

2. Koch brothers' secret billionaire summit hosts known racist.

3. Koch-backed organization blasts AARP over its opposition to Minnesota voter ID amendment.

4. The Kochs fund climate-change denial research that hurts poor communities.

5. The Koch brothers are against raising the minimum wage.

6. David Koch ran on presidential ticket that called for ending Social Security.

7. The Kochs' father was an original member of an anti-civil rights organization.

7 Disturbing Facts About the Koch Brothers Relationship with Race and Civil Rights Alternet


It's Official: One Koch Brother Equals 515,000 Union Members

Comparing The Koch Brothers Influence To Labor The New Republic


11 things the Koch brothers don’t want you to know

1. The family’s $100 billion fortune comes mostly from a massive network of oil and gas pipelines, and investments in other polluting industries like paper and plastics. The brothers inherited the seed money for their holdings from their father Fred Koch, who made his first fortune building oil pipelines for the Russian dictator Joseph Stalin in the 1930s. Back in the states, Fred Koch supported racial segregation and white supremacist groups like the John Birch Society.


11 things the Koch brothers don t want you to know - Salon.com

You like normal are a waste of time,

Boeing's 13 billion dollars to the Koch brothers 88 million dollars is waaaaaaaaay smaller, the dumb ass article in the link don't even say how the got it

 

[rdean]

Liberals saying most Republicans only care about big corporations when they put the brakes on the import.export bank. Which infuriated GE and Boeing

U.S. Export-Import Bank Heading Toward Closure - US News

Money speaks Boeing General Electric cut off donations to Republicans blocking Export-Import Bank - Strange Bedfellows Politics News

From the Article you posted:

Ex-Im helps U.S. exports, and returned a $679 million profit to the federal treasury last year.

House Speaker John Boehner claims to support renewal of the bank. In Boehner’s home state of Ohio, the Export-Import Bank helped 358 exporters last year, 226 of them small businesses. It guaranteed credit for $3,803 in exports by the Akron Brass Co., but also $38 million for Anglo American Hardwood.

The renewal of Ex-Im would almost certainly pass if the House Republican leadership — including Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers, R-Wash. –allowed a vote. Almost all 188 Democrats would support it, and 45 Republicans (including Rep. Dave Reichert, R-Wash.) have signed a letter supporting renewal. But Boehner is afraid of attempts to purge him rising out of the far-right fringe of the Republican caucus. The Speaker will not stand up to the crazies in his caucus.

-----------------------------------------
Let me make sure I understand this. The Republicans are shutting down an organization that brings in hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Helps hundreds of businesses in one state alone. And the article says the people blocking it are "crazies".

And that proves Republicans are what? Crazy? I don't get it.

Its crony capitalism, the import export is the bank of GE and Boeing they receive 87% of it.

And yet they are able to help hundreds of businesses in a single state? How can that be?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Liberals saying most Republicans only care about big corporations when they put the brakes on the import.export bank. Which infuriated GE and Boeing

U.S. Export-Import Bank Heading Toward Closure - US News

Money speaks Boeing General Electric cut off donations to Republicans blocking Export-Import Bank - Strange Bedfellows Politics News

From the Article you posted:

Ex-Im helps U.S. exports, and returned a $679 million profit to the federal treasury last year.

House Speaker John Boehner claims to support renewal of the bank. In Boehner’s home state of Ohio, the Export-Import Bank helped 358 exporters last year, 226 of them small businesses. It guaranteed credit for $3,803 in exports by the Akron Brass Co., but also $38 million for Anglo American Hardwood.

The renewal of Ex-Im would almost certainly pass if the House Republican leadership — including Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers, R-Wash. –allowed a vote. Almost all 188 Democrats would support it, and 45 Republicans (including Rep. Dave Reichert, R-Wash.) have signed a letter supporting renewal. But Boehner is afraid of attempts to purge him rising out of the far-right fringe of the Republican caucus. The Speaker will not stand up to the crazies in his caucus.

-----------------------------------------
Let me make sure I understand this. The Republicans are shutting down an organization that brings in hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Helps hundreds of businesses in one state alone. And the article says the people blocking it are "crazies".

And that proves Republicans are what? Crazy? I don't get it.

Its crony capitalism, the import export is the bank of GE and Boeing they receive 87% of it.

And yet they are able to help hundreds of businesses in a single state? How can that be?

So let's get this straight...for years you have been complaining about corporate welfare now you are defending it? 12 republicans and 23 democrats disagree in the senate.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The problem is that conservatives craft their lies in such a manner as to grossly oversimplify an issue and contrive the lie from that gross oversimplification.

Take for example the rightwing lie that President Obama was going to 'ban' AR 15 ammunition.

In fact, the issue had nothing to do with the president, as the ATF was merely considering reclassifying M855 5.56 mm NATO ammunition, not all types of 5.56 mm NATO that will chamber in an AR 15, such as M193 cartridges and other similar ammunition with a FMJ and lead core.

The lie, of course, was concealing the fact that even if M855 rounds were 'banned,' which did not come to pass, there would still be ample other types of ammunition available.

Needless to say, however, by the time conservatives had propagated their 'Obama is banning AR 15 ammunition' lie, few were paying attention to the fact that it was indeed a lie, where it had been repeated often enough to be perceived as 'true.'

 

[Dad2three]

The koch brother boogey men

Yes they have Union companies

Support For The Koch Brothers From An Unlikely Source The United Steelworkers RedState

Yes they are against corporate well fare.

Koch calls for unity against corporate welfare - CNNPolitics.com

YOUR FIRST LINK

Jon Geenen, an International Vice President with the United Steelworkers wrote a long post on the union’s blog entitled A Well Intentioned Bad Idea. While Geenen’s post was not a defense of the Koch brothers’ politics, it was a defense of Koch Industries, both as an employer and, more importantly, a unionized employer:

LOL



Koch Brothers Takes $88 Million in Corporate Welfare

Mar 9, 2014 - Koch Brothers likes to champion themselves as crusaders against the welfare state






7 Disturbing Facts About the Koch Brothers' Relationship with Race and Civil Rights
The Kochs are known for destroying the environment, but their civil rights record isn't so great either.

1. Kochs' union-busting efforts hurt African American mobility.

Though unions have been known to increase the economic mobility of African-American workers, Koch-funded organizations have been very active in destroying anything that's left of them. Koch-backed organizations like Americans for Prosperity, the Cato Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and the Reason Foundation have long viewed public sector unions with disdain.

2. Koch brothers' secret billionaire summit hosts known racist.

3. Koch-backed organization blasts AARP over its opposition to Minnesota voter ID amendment.

4. The Kochs fund climate-change denial research that hurts poor communities.

5. The Koch brothers are against raising the minimum wage.

6. David Koch ran on presidential ticket that called for ending Social Security.

7. The Kochs' father was an original member of an anti-civil rights organization.

7 Disturbing Facts About the Koch Brothers Relationship with Race and Civil Rights Alternet


It's Official: One Koch Brother Equals 515,000 Union Members

Comparing The Koch Brothers Influence To Labor The New Republic


11 things the Koch brothers don’t want you to know

1. The family’s $100 billion fortune comes mostly from a massive network of oil and gas pipelines, and investments in other polluting industries like paper and plastics. The brothers inherited the seed money for their holdings from their father Fred Koch, who made his first fortune building oil pipelines for the Russian dictator Joseph Stalin in the 1930s. Back in the states, Fred Koch supported racial segregation and white supremacist groups like the John Birch Society.


11 things the Koch brothers don t want you to know - Salon.com

You like normal are a waste of time,

Boeing's 13 billion dollars to the Koch brothers 88 million dollars is waaaaaaaaay smaller, the dumb ass article in the link don't even say how the got it

Got it, we are supposed to "believe" the Kochs, who hold a PRIVATE company and don't need to accept Gov't Corp welfare, want to abolish it, lol

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Another recent rightwing lie concerned a veteran in Idaho, where conservatives contrived and propagated the lie that the VA was going to 'confiscate' the veteran's guns.

In fact, the VA sought to do no such thing, and acknowledged that it lacked the authority to 'confiscate' anything, much less guns.

One must wonder if this lie was the consequence of conservative ignorance of the law, where private property can't be 'confiscated' by government absent due process, a fair hearing, and just compensation, in accordance with Takings Clause jurisprudence; indeed, before any property can be 'confiscated,' a court must first issue a warrant allowing authorities to seize private property as required by the 4th Amendment.

Are most conservatives truly ignorant of these facts or are they so hell-bent on propagating their lies that they ignore the facts they know will expose their lies to indeed be lies.

 

[Pogo]

Hmm.

What's the difference between "speak in the macro" and "speak in broad generalizations"?

None.

Then what's the point of fomenting fallacies?

I don't know what that means.

I do know what I mean. Like what Dean just posted before you when he says "Republicans blocked Obama". When you read it, he doesn't make a distinction between John Boenher and the newest member of the Young Republican's club at Page Community College in Arizona. Now, if I were to ask Dean, I would assume he would come back and say, "Obviously I didn't mean every single republican". My message was to acknowledge at least in your own mind that "not all liberals" feel one way about anything or "not all conseravtives" feel one way about anything or "not all Yankee fans" feel one way about anything except possibly Derek Jeter's HOF credentials.

Hope that helps you.

It doesn't. I don't get the purpose of this thread. Is it to articulate stereotypes and generalizations? Because that's already happening in like 99% of other threads.

Blanket statements are by definition fallacious. What use do they have?

 

[Dad2three]

Another recent rightwing lie concerned a veteran in Idaho, where conservatives contrived and propagated the lie that the VA was going to 'confiscate' the veteran's guns.

In fact, the VA sought to do no such thing, and acknowledged that it lacked the authority to 'confiscate' anything, much less guns.

One must wonder if this lie was the consequence of conservative ignorance of the law, where private property can't be 'confiscated' by government absent due process, a fair hearing, and just compensation, in accordance with Takings Clause jurisprudence; indeed, before any property can be 'confiscated,' a court must first issue a warrant allowing authorities to seize private property as required by the 4th Amendment.

Are most conservatives truly ignorant of these facts or are they so hell-bent on propagating their lies that they ignore the facts they know will expose their lies to indeed be lies.

How else do you see Trump leading GOP polls? Non critical thinking who "believe" versus actually using cognitive thinking. Same pattern with FailinPalin and the serial tax raiser (on the middle class of course), run from terrorists Reagan....Right wingers today (cons) are lead by CATO, Heritage, Faux, Rushblo, etc. It's the ______ fault is their motto. NEVER accepting ANY responsibility for their failed policy OR even acknowledging it. Instead they prefer myths (see Ronnie Reagan)...

 

[candycorn]

Hmm.

What's the difference between "speak in the macro" and "speak in broad generalizations"?

None.

Then what's the point of fomenting fallacies?

I don't know what that means.

I do know what I mean. Like what Dean just posted before you when he says "Republicans blocked Obama". When you read it, he doesn't make a distinction between John Boenher and the newest member of the Young Republican's club at Page Community College in Arizona. Now, if I were to ask Dean, I would assume he would come back and say, "Obviously I didn't mean every single republican". My message was to acknowledge at least in your own mind that "not all liberals" feel one way about anything or "not all conseravtives" feel one way about anything or "not all Yankee fans" feel one way about anything except possibly Derek Jeter's HOF credentials.

Hope that helps you.

It doesn't. I don't get the purpose of this thread. Is it to articulate stereotypes and generalizations? Because that's already happening in like 99% of other threads.

Blanket statements are by definition fallacious. What use do they have?

Well, feel free to come in later if you wish.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

How about, the presidents are somehow responsible for the economy...directly.

They may have influence, but they don't pull levers and push buttons in such a way that they can actually dictate outcomes.

There is entire army of people behind the scenes...some not so far behind.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The purpose of this thread is to, hopefully, field engaging back and fourths between posters concerning "facts" that they know about theirs or "the other" side that can be shown to be wrong by a member of the other side. Nobody need bring up something to get it discussed--feel free to start us off if you like. Just speak in the macro for the purposes of this debate. For example, a lot of liberals think that conservatives do not give much to charity when there have been credible studies that show conservatives give a higher percentage of their personal wealth directly to charity. Now certainly, there are some conservatives that give more than others and some liberals give more than some conservatives so the statement isn't true in every case. Some liberals give more than all others and some conservatives give more than all others. The outcome I'm hoping for are some corrections to the conventional wisdom that, who knows, will perhaps be acknowledged by a member of the other side.

Again, you needn't wait for someone to bring up "Liberals are weak on defense" to post facts about how liberal presidents and congresses have supported the troops. Or if you're conservative, you needn't wait for "Conservatives care only about the rich" and point out how conservatives have shown care and concern for the poor.

The ground rules:

1) Again, for purposes of this debate, speak in the macro. You needn't point out that Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are philanthropists when discussing who gives more to the poor. Again, what we're doing here is, hopefully, dyspelling myths about "the other side" or your side. And, once more, you needn't take on the other side. You can definitely lambast what you see as conservatism or liberalism go where it was never needed. I personally think Pelosi's brand of liberalism is exactly what the DNC should be avoiding and, to their credit, they have done a good job centering the Party.

2) Feel free to let the fur fly. Just bring some light when you bring the heat.

3) Have fun. If you're running to the mod every day, you're not doing it right.

So, in conclusion.

By posting here,

You're hopefully dyspelling myths about your side or the other side. You're doing so in the macro, fully acknowledging that there are exceptions and that one liberal or conservative being a dork somewhere does not mean that all libs or cons are dorks.

You're fully entitled to tell someone they are nuts BUT please explain why they are nuts. One-liners are what the board is made up of but they don't belong here.

Your sink is thick enough to take it and your powder is dry enough to dish it out. Again try to be topical....dyspel myths.

Goals of this thread:

Gold Standard: You change minds.
Silver Standard: You gain acknowledgement (voiced or not) that your opponent has been moved off the mark.
Bronze Standard: You make a strong case and support your argument using well respected sources. You defend your case utilizing same.

Debunking the "Conservatives Give More to Charity" Myth.



Partisanship and Charitable Giving

Do conservatives give more to charity than liberals? Nope:

While levels of giving are roughly equivalent, liberals are much more likely to donate to secular organizations, and conservatives are more likely to donate to religious causes, especially their own congregation. ...




Economist s View Partisanship and Charitable Giving


Study: Conservatives and liberals are equally charitable, but they give to different charities

....no statistically significant relationship between peoples' political beliefs, or their partisan affiliation, and their charitable giving level.


Study Conservatives and liberals are equally charitable but they give to different charities - The Washington Post



Giving Differently: Liberals and Conservatives Have Radically Different Views of Charity

Republicans’ moral foundations are embedded in respect for authority and traditions, loyalty and purity


On the other side, Democrats’ moral foundations are rooted in equality and protection from harm, says Mittal...

Giving Differently Liberals and Conservatives Have Radically Different Views of Charity

Your sorry spamming ass really deserves no response. But since I look at your crapp from time to time (have to actually open it since you are on ignore for taking up so much bandwidth).

I am more liberal than I am conservative.

But this claim is what gives liberals a bad name (just like you do).

Here is the claim of the author

we demonstrate that these results are not robust, and appear to be driven by a non-traditional question wording for identifying liberals and conservatives. After correcting for this problem, there is no statistical difference between conservative and liberal giving,

How does he correct for the "problem". He never says.

Brooks laid all his data out there.

The author says he could never get his students to replicate Brooks data....to tired he said.

What a piss poor argument.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Bill Clinton was never convicted of a felony.

He was cited for civil contempt of court. He was admonished by a Federal Court for lying under oath and perjury.

He surrendered his law license in Arkansas in a plea deal in order to avoid a criminal prosecution.

He was disbarred by the U.S. Supreme Court.

 

[Two Thumbs]

So many lies from the right, so little bandwidth...

That's ironic.

 

[Two Thumbs]

The rightwing lie that there is a difference between dems and socialists

 

[Bleipriester]

Agenda posting is nonsense. Liberals, conservatives, democrats and republicans, are able to prove each other wrong. Guys, you are both wrong. You are heading towards economic and social collapse, while you are busy to work with the pickaxe on each other over nonsense that suggests you have no real problems. This is basically what I am telling to my countrymenInnen, as well.

 

[Two Thumbs]

That evul con lie that free stuff can't come from the government.

Of course it's free, with $18 Trillion in debt, we haven't paid for shit in a long time.

 

[Dad2three]

How about, the presidents are somehow responsible for the economy...directly.

They may have influence, but they don't pull levers and push buttons in such a way that they can actually dictate outcomes.

There is entire army of people behind the scenes...some not so far behind.

The PRZ is THE MOST responsible for the economy. Just look to Harding/Coolidge/Reagan/Dubya to see when you "don't believe in Gov't regulators" what happens!