F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

Discussion in 'Military' started by Indofred, Jul 16, 2014.

  1. Daryl Hunt
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    Daryl Hunt Gold Member

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    All it proves is that your bird is well balanced. Nothing more. The Cobra Manuever is worthless in combat. Right after you do it, you are left helpless. You have lost everything. At that point, a SE-5 can take you out. This is another reason the SU-35 isn't the terror it's suppose to be. If it uses it's vector thrust to out do, say, a F-15 then it's going to left hanging in the air and the F-15s wingman will easily take it out. After learning this, the F-15EX and CX became viable again and will be in the 2020 Military Budget.
     
  2. Daryl Hunt
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    Daryl Hunt Gold Member

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    WE did a little test on air to air using an A-7D versus an A-10A. Once the lessons were learned, the A-7 could take the A-10 out 100% of the time with just it's gun. Until that lesson was learned, the A-10 did win. But after the tactics were learned, the A-10 proved to be worthless as an Air to Air fighter for anything that can go transonic or higher every time with either guns or missiles. If you are going gun to gun, you do have to treat that A-10 gun with lots and lots of respect but there are ways to take it out. The gun doesn't fire too well when the bird that's around it is falling to the earth.
     
  3. DrainBamage
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    DrainBamage Gold Member

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    That is exactly what it reminded me of, the F-22 routine in airshows.
     
  4. DrainBamage
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    DrainBamage Gold Member

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    A-10 warplane tops list for friendly-fire deaths

    A-10 warplane tops list for friendly-fire deaths
    WASHINGTON — The Air Force A-10 attack jet has killed more U.S. troops in friendly fire incidents and more Afghan civilians than any other aircraft flown by the U.S. military, according to data declassified and obtained by USA TODAY. ... Since 2001, the A-10 has been involved in four friendly fire incidents that killed 10 U.S. troops. The next highest is the B-1B bomber, which killed five soldiers last year in one incident. Friendly fire deaths are exceptionally rare. There have been 45 total friendly fire incidents out of about 140,000 missions flown by the Air Force, Navy and Marines.The A-10 is the aircraft responsible for the most civilian deaths in Afghanistan since 2010, when data on those deaths started to be collected. Thirty-five people have been killed compared with 19 killed by the Harrier, data show.


    When you're talking four incidents out of 140k sorties it's really statistically insignificant IMO, bottom line in the modern era friendly fire incidents are extremely rare and anyone claiming "too much friendly fire" as a knock on any of the CAS platforms is talking out of their ass.
     
  5. Daryl Hunt
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    Daryl Hunt Gold Member

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    When things get too close, they call in the AC-130 that can do pinpoint accuracy.
     
  6. DrainBamage
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    DrainBamage Gold Member

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    Pinpoint is a relative term, but it would be interesting to know the CEP of the 105 on an AC-130 versus a modern PGM like an Small Diameter Bomb. I'm not doubting the 105 is more accurate since I have no idea, but clearly an aircraft flying thousands of feet up that is aiming by going in a slow circle tilted at a certain degree has plenty of variables in the accuracy equation as well. At the very least the 105 would be a lot cheaper per shot than dropping PGMs.

    AC-130 is interesting in how much they play around with the weapons, probably because of the relatively small fleet size and more agile control by Special Operations Command instead of the more bloated USAF acquisition. They took off the two 20s and added a 25mm cannon. Then they replaced the 25mm and 40mm with two 30mm cannons, then changed their mind when new fire control system allowed higher altitude and went back to the 25 and 40. They have versions without the 105, they've tinkered with Viper Strike or Griffin PGMs from the cargo bay, everything from SDBs to Hellfires to APKWS to JDAMs on the wing rails.

    The latest thing they've been enamored with is GBU-69, which is a small glide weapon that is laser guided like APKWS (I think it uses same seeker) but packs a much bigger (36lb blast frag) punch since no wasted space on engine/fuel like with Hellfire and APKWS. SOCOM has contracted to acquire about 1,000 per year so they've clearly decided this is their PGM for the AC-130.

    GBU-69:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Daryl Hunt
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    Daryl Hunt Gold Member

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    If you can operate a squadron of A-10s then you can operate one AC-130 and have the same firepower. Except the pinpoint accuracy will be much better. And the enemy on the ground will only know something is blowing them up one at a time whether it's a building, Tank, Troop Carrier, Jeep, Toyota Pickup or people running for their lives. There are a few mixes of weapons. One model carries two 25mm, two 40mms and one 105. Another carries two 30mms and one 105 and possibly the weapon you have mentioned including Hellfires.

    The newest is the Ghost Rider. Precision Strike Package with 30mm and 105mm cannons and Standoff Precision Guided Munitions (i.e. GBU-39 Small Diameter Bomb and AGM-176 Griffin missile).

    The AC hits within about 5 feet from center. Of course, it's going to take a lot more out than a 5 foot circle in most cases. And can elect to do area affect as well. The new J model costs 115 mil a copy which is down from the W version that is aging that originally cost 135 mil a copy.
     
  8. Daryl Hunt
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    Daryl Hunt Gold Member

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    BTW, this was done after the A-7 lost the flyoff. If the flyoff had been extended, the A-7 would have routinely downed the A-10. But with a one day flyoff head to head, there was no learning curve and the 30mm won that fight. The A-10 was just along for the ride. Once the proper angle of attack was learned and the proper entry speed was learned, the A-7 could avoid the big gun every time and whittle away with it's 20mm canon until the A-10 could no longer fly. Plus, the A-10 could not disengage since it was over 200 mph slower. It was in the fight win or lose. The A-7 could disengage any time the pilot wished. The best bird did not win the flyoff.
     
  9. DrainBamage
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    DrainBamage Gold Member

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    What exactly does this mean in terms of CEP, anything can hit within 5 feet from center it's more about how often it does so given a set of shots. Is there any source for CEP of the 105 on AC-130 versus PGMs, I'd be really interested.
     
  10. Likkmee
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    Likkmee Gold Member

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