F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[Esdraelon]

I hear it's hard to kill something you can't see.

 

[Dayton3]

I hear it's hard to kill something you can't see.

The F-35 has never been remotely as stealthy as dedicated stealth attack aircraft. Or the F-22.

 

[Silver Cat]

Ok. Looks like, that F-35 is not a lame duck. It's a cuckoo in the fixed-wing's nest.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I'll be seeing one fly later today at the Huntington Beach Air Show

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Uncensored2008]

The F-35 has never been remotely as stealthy as dedicated stealth attack aircraft. Or the F-22.

1922 is over. The warfighter of today is a sophisticated weapons platform. The F35 is that craft.

 

[jbander]

The F-35 has never been remotely as stealthy as dedicated stealth attack aircraft. Or the F-22.

The only thing that matters is if you see them before they see you. If you out stealth their system you win.

 

[Vrenn]

The only thing that matters is if you see them before they see you. If you out stealth their system you win.

And with the release of Mod4 allowing the F-35 to sustain 9+ Gees that is beyond what a pilot can maintain, it now out flies both the F-18 and F-16 in a dogfight. Both of those fighters would have to go completely clean to equal the F-35 in a gun to gun dogfight but the F-35 will still be armed with a gun and couple of Aim-9xs.

 

[westwall]

And with the release of Mod4 allowing the F-35 to sustain 9+ Gees that is beyond what a pilot can maintain, it now out flies both the F-18 and F-16 in a dogfight. Both of those fighters would have to go completely clean to equal the F-35 in a gun to gun dogfight but the F-35 will still be armed with a gun and couple of Aim-9xs.

Ummmm, wrong.


In designing the F-16, advanced aerospace science and proven reliable systems from other aircraft such as the F-15 and F-111 were selected. These were combined to simplify the airplane and reduce its size, purchase price, maintenance costs and weight. The light weight of the fuselage is achieved without reducing its strength. With a full load of internal fuel, the F-16 can withstand up to nine G's -- nine times the force of gravity -- which exceeds the capability of other current fighter aircraft.

F-16 Fighting Falcon

The F-16 Fighting Falcon is a compact, multi-role fighter aircraft. It is highly maneuverable and has proven itself in air-to-air combat and air-to-surface attack. It provides a relatively low-cost,

www.af.mil

 

[Vrenn]

Ummmm, wrong.


In designing the F-16, advanced aerospace science and proven reliable systems from other aircraft such as the F-15 and F-111 were selected. These were combined to simplify the airplane and reduce its size, purchase price, maintenance costs and weight. The light weight of the fuselage is achieved without reducing its strength. With a full load of internal fuel, the F-16 can withstand up to nine G's -- nine times the force of gravity -- which exceeds the capability of other current fighter aircraft.

F-16 Fighting Falcon

The F-16 Fighting Falcon is a compact, multi-role fighter aircraft. It is highly maneuverable and has proven itself in air-to-air combat and air-to-surface attack. It provides a relatively low-cost,

www.af.mil

And the F-35A was designed to equal a clean F-16. The F-35A also can sustain 9+ Gees but the pilot can sustain those kind of Gees for only a few seconds. After that, the pilot drops to about 7.5 Gees. The original F-16A was strictly an Air to Air. It didn't even carry radar guided missiles. What you believe as the original F-16 took it as couple of decades to obtain.

 

[westwall]

And the F-35A was designed to equal a clean F-16. The F-35A also can sustain 9+ Gees but the pilot can sustain those kind of Gees for only a few seconds. After that, the pilot drops to about 7.5 Gees. The original F-16A was strictly an Air to Air. It didn't even carry radar guided missiles. What you believe as the original F-16 took it as couple of decades to obtain.

Look at the link, the F-16 DIRTY, can pull 9G.

 

[justinacolmena]

It is a very serious problem.

Military procurement bureaucrats listened to generals who wanted too much for too little. They wanted a stealth version of the Osprey that could do the VTOL stuff while flying at Mach+ speeds carrying a huge variety of armaments and payloads.

They got what they should've expected.

There's too much Top Secret clearance and fraternization among the software programmers who design the controls for those planes.
Which means there's almost undoubtedly a Chinese/Israeli remote kill embedded somewhere in the flight control software. There's too much clearance and the whole fiasco with the federal Office of Personnel Management leaking detailed government employee records from a SAP database while Katherine Archuleta was in charge of that department during the Obama administration.

 

[Vrenn]

Look at the link, the F-16 DIRTY, can pull 9G.

Never said it couldn't. Hang 2 Aim-9s on it and I would think that it could. But hang 6 missiles and a center drop tank which brings up to the same weapon load as the F-35A and you drop all the way down to a out 7.5 unless you are trying to invent the folding wing Lawn Dart.

 

[Dayton3]

The ability to pull large amounts of G forces is a badly overrated and unimportant capability.

The only U.S. aircraft shot down by an enemy aircraft in the last 50 years was in Desert Storm when an F/A-18 was downed by a Mig-25 Foxbat which can pull only something like 3.5 Gs.

 

[Vrenn]

The ability to pull large amounts of G forces is a badly overrated and unimportant capability.

The only U.S. aircraft shot down by an enemy aircraft in the last 50 years was in Desert Storm when an F/A-18 was downed by a Mig-25 Foxbat which can pull only something like 3.5 Gs.

Actually, the max rating is 4.5Gs. That is with all 3 external fuel tanks which is the way the 25 normally operates. It's been recorded clean at over 11g. But that included a serious NDI right after that.

 

[Dayton3]

Actually, the max rating is 4.5Gs. That is with all 3 external fuel tanks which is the way the 25 normally operates. It's been recorded clean at over 11g. But that included a serious NDI right after that.

What good is a Mig-25 "clean"? Because "clean" means its unarmed.

 

[Vrenn]

What good is a Mig-25 "clean"? Because "clean" means its unarmed.

The 25 carried missiles that most fighters couldn't even get off the ground with at the time. And it flew with drop tanks which it would disgard quickly. Clean, to it, was when the drop tanks and half the missiles were dropped. The fact that the F-35 flies as clean with it's internal load and fuel as a F-16 is with no missiles and drop tanks. But under that condition, the F-35A can pull 9+ Gs, and has the same lethality + as the F-16 fully loaded which will be limited to 7Gees.

The fact remains, the only real threat to a F-35A is the F-22.

 

[Dayton3]

The fact remains, the only real threat to a F-35A is the F-22.

I never disagreed with that.

 

[jbander]

F35 and 22 aren't designed to go nose to nose with any plane. My perception at this point it would never have to. That may change but it will be quite a bit further down the line.

 

[Vrenn]

F35 and 22 aren't designed to go nose to nose with any plane. My perception at this point it would never have to. That may change but it will be quite a bit further down the line.

The 22 was and is designed to go head go head as well as standoff. Nothing can take it right save a lucky 35 on a very good day.

The enemy hopes to get close to the 35 but up close, it's good enough and you have to live through the extreme off boresight of the 35 and the Aim9X. So you may or not get one chance.

 

[jbander]

The 22 was and is designed to go head go head as well as standoff. Nothing can take it right save a lucky 35 on a very good day.

The enemy hopes to get close to the 35 but up close, it's good enough and you have to live through the extreme off boresight of the 35 and the Aim9X. So you may or not get one chance.

As of now they won't see either one of them and there is nothing out there that they won't see.