Expelled Oklahoma U fraternity to sue university, possibly President Boren

[PratchettFan]

And if they had been making anti-war comments? Can the university toss them out? How about if they were demonstrating for SSM or against it? Can they be tossed out for that? Are you saying a public university has the authority to tell its students what political positions it will or will not allow? What religious expressions it will or will not allow? How about if the university decided only Christian symbols are allowed and required each student to attend bible studies? If the First Amendment protections can be ignored by a public university, then they can be ignored.

What those kids did was stupid. I have no idea what their motivation was. But what you are suggesting is tossing out one of our most important protections against government intrusion just because you don't happen to like what they said.

You know what, some of us can make distinctions between political speech and just being an asshole.

and the university did just that.

Yes, I know. I call those people fools. If an asshole can't speak his mind, no one can.

 

[PratchettFan]

Last I heard, the First Amendment even applied to racist frat boys.

And the consequences thereof...
These people have no legal right to remain students of this university...if they do post the evidence.

If the University, a part of the government, applies negative consequences to the exercise of free speech they are in violation of the First Amendment. The First Amendment isn't there to make sure only one point of view is allowed. If you think it doesn't apply to "that point of view" then you don't understand it at all.

Actually you seem to be the befuddled one here...
The First Amendment of these racists weren't infringed, they were never instructed as to what language and/or words they could not use.
Free Speech does not protect you from the consequences of it...

So if you get thrown in jail because you made a comment about the Government, that is ok because getting jailed is just the consequence of saying what you said. No one stopped you from saying it.

These kids are not going to jail.

I'm sorry. Just where is the line as to what "consequences" the government can apply to speech it doesn't like. Show it to me and tell me where the guarantees are that the line won't be moved for the sake of convenience.

 

[martybegan]

Its called being in favor of due process.

There is a statement out there. If you only support speech YOU agree with, you are a hack. If you only support speech that everyone agrees with, then you are a coward"

It isn't a free speech issue. Just like the Duck Dynasty guy or that Fat chick who liked to cook with butter, whatever her name was. It's not a free speech issue if my boss fires me after I call him an asshole.

This is a transaction between parties. There's no due process issue here. These guys were caught on tape chanting racist epitaths, which violates the universities code of conduct. Therefore the university was well within its rights to expell the little racist fucks.

Yes, it is a free speech issue. The difference between your examples is those people were with private companies who could set their own rules. This is a public university paid with public funds. They are part of the government. If the government can throw people out of school for speech you don't like, they can throw them out for speech you do.

It's not private when someone posts the video of it on youtube.

Public speech isn't protected? I can say what I please so long as I don't let anyone hear me do it?

You are not protected from paying consequences once your racist rant goes viral, no.

You are protected from government imposing those consequences, except for very narrow exceptions, such as fighting words, and "yelling fire! in a crowded theater".

 

[PratchettFan]

Its called being in favor of due process.

There is a statement out there. If you only support speech YOU agree with, you are a hack. If you only support speech that everyone agrees with, then you are a coward"

It isn't a free speech issue. Just like the Duck Dynasty guy or that Fat chick who liked to cook with butter, whatever her name was. It's not a free speech issue if my boss fires me after I call him an asshole.

This is a transaction between parties. There's no due process issue here. These guys were caught on tape chanting racist epitaths, which violates the universities code of conduct. Therefore the university was well within its rights to expell the little racist fucks.

Yes, it is a free speech issue. The difference between your examples is those people were with private companies who could set their own rules. This is a public university paid with public funds. They are part of the government. If the government can throw people out of school for speech you don't like, they can throw them out for speech you do.

It's not private when someone posts the video of it on youtube.

Public speech isn't protected? I can say what I please so long as I don't let anyone hear me do it?

You are not protected from paying consequences once your racist rant goes viral, no.

Actually, you are. Despite the fact you would so happily throw that precious right away, the courts won't.

 

[martybegan]

Last I heard, the First Amendment even applied to racist frat boys.

And the consequences thereof...
These people have no legal right to remain students of this university...if they do post the evidence.

If the University, a part of the government, applies negative consequences to the exercise of free speech they are in violation of the First Amendment. The First Amendment isn't there to make sure only one point of view is allowed. If you think it doesn't apply to "that point of view" then you don't understand it at all.

Actually you seem to be the befuddled one here...
The First Amendment of these racists weren't infringed, they were never instructed as to what language and/or words they could not use.
Free Speech does not protect you from the consequences of it...

So if you get thrown in jail because you made a comment about the Government, that is ok because getting jailed is just the consequence of saying what you said. No one stopped you from saying it.

These kids are not going to jail.

Jail isn't the only consequence the government can invoke.

 

[Carla_Danger]

It isn't a free speech issue. Just like the Duck Dynasty guy or that Fat chick who liked to cook with butter, whatever her name was. It's not a free speech issue if my boss fires me after I call him an asshole.

This is a transaction between parties. There's no due process issue here. These guys were caught on tape chanting racist epitaths, which violates the universities code of conduct. Therefore the university was well within its rights to expell the little racist fucks.

Yes, it is a free speech issue. The difference between your examples is those people were with private companies who could set their own rules. This is a public university paid with public funds. They are part of the government. If the government can throw people out of school for speech you don't like, they can throw them out for speech you do.

It's not private when someone posts the video of it on youtube.

Public speech isn't protected? I can say what I please so long as I don't let anyone hear me do it?

You are not protected from paying consequences once your racist rant goes viral, no.

Actually, you are. Despite the fact you would so happily throw that precious right away, the courts won't.

That's a bunch of BS. I can't say whatever I want and expect to keep my job.

The school has a code of conduct, and those students signed papers agreeing to the code of conduct before they started class.

 

[martybegan]

Yes, it is a free speech issue. The difference between your examples is those people were with private companies who could set their own rules. This is a public university paid with public funds. They are part of the government. If the government can throw people out of school for speech you don't like, they can throw them out for speech you do.

It's not private when someone posts the video of it on youtube.

Public speech isn't protected? I can say what I please so long as I don't let anyone hear me do it?

You are not protected from paying consequences once your racist rant goes viral, no.

Actually, you are. Despite the fact you would so happily throw that precious right away, the courts won't.

That's a bunch of BS. I can't say whatever I want and expect to keep my job.

The school has a code of conduct, and those students signed papers agreeing to the code of conduct before they started class.

Again, being a student is not a "job." And a public university is not a typical employer.

 

[Carla_Danger]

And the consequences thereof...
These people have no legal right to remain students of this university...if they do post the evidence.

If the University, a part of the government, applies negative consequences to the exercise of free speech they are in violation of the First Amendment. The First Amendment isn't there to make sure only one point of view is allowed. If you think it doesn't apply to "that point of view" then you don't understand it at all.

Actually you seem to be the befuddled one here...
The First Amendment of these racists weren't infringed, they were never instructed as to what language and/or words they could not use.
Free Speech does not protect you from the consequences of it...

So if you get thrown in jail because you made a comment about the Government, that is ok because getting jailed is just the consequence of saying what you said. No one stopped you from saying it.

These kids are not going to jail.

Jail isn't the only consequence the government can invoke.

The Government is not doing anything. They were expelled for not following code of conduct.

 

[Carla_Danger]

It's not private when someone posts the video of it on youtube.

Public speech isn't protected? I can say what I please so long as I don't let anyone hear me do it?

You are not protected from paying consequences once your racist rant goes viral, no.

Actually, you are. Despite the fact you would so happily throw that precious right away, the courts won't.

That's a bunch of BS. I can't say whatever I want and expect to keep my job.

The school has a code of conduct, and those students signed papers agreeing to the code of conduct before they started class.

Again, being a student is not a "job." And a public university is not a typical employer.

They had to sign papers agreeing to the code of conduct.

 

[martybegan]

If the University, a part of the government, applies negative consequences to the exercise of free speech they are in violation of the First Amendment. The First Amendment isn't there to make sure only one point of view is allowed. If you think it doesn't apply to "that point of view" then you don't understand it at all.

Actually you seem to be the befuddled one here...
The First Amendment of these racists weren't infringed, they were never instructed as to what language and/or words they could not use.
Free Speech does not protect you from the consequences of it...

So if you get thrown in jail because you made a comment about the Government, that is ok because getting jailed is just the consequence of saying what you said. No one stopped you from saying it.

These kids are not going to jail.

Jail isn't the only consequence the government can invoke.

The Government is not doing anything. They were expelled for not following code of conduct.

A public university is an extension of the government, and have been held to the same standards as government.

 

[martybegan]

Public speech isn't protected? I can say what I please so long as I don't let anyone hear me do it?

You are not protected from paying consequences once your racist rant goes viral, no.

Actually, you are. Despite the fact you would so happily throw that precious right away, the courts won't.

That's a bunch of BS. I can't say whatever I want and expect to keep my job.

The school has a code of conduct, and those students signed papers agreeing to the code of conduct before they started class.

Again, being a student is not a "job." And a public university is not a typical employer.

They had to sign papers agreeing to the code of conduct.

Plenty of codes of conduct have been found unconstitutional, or have been modified when confronted by groups such as F.I.R.E.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Actually you seem to be the befuddled one here...
The First Amendment of these racists weren't infringed, they were never instructed as to what language and/or words they could not use.
Free Speech does not protect you from the consequences of it...

So if you get thrown in jail because you made a comment about the Government, that is ok because getting jailed is just the consequence of saying what you said. No one stopped you from saying it.

These kids are not going to jail.

Jail isn't the only consequence the government can invoke.

The Government is not doing anything. They were expelled for not following code of conduct.

A public university is an extension of the government, and have been held to the same standards as government.

Rules are a bitch.

 

[martybegan]

So if you get thrown in jail because you made a comment about the Government, that is ok because getting jailed is just the consequence of saying what you said. No one stopped you from saying it.

These kids are not going to jail.

Jail isn't the only consequence the government can invoke.

The Government is not doing anything. They were expelled for not following code of conduct.

A public university is an extension of the government, and have been held to the same standards as government.

Rules are a bitch.

Not pertinent to this discussion.

 

[PratchettFan]

Yes, it is a free speech issue. The difference between your examples is those people were with private companies who could set their own rules. This is a public university paid with public funds. They are part of the government. If the government can throw people out of school for speech you don't like, they can throw them out for speech you do.

It's not private when someone posts the video of it on youtube.

Public speech isn't protected? I can say what I please so long as I don't let anyone hear me do it?

You are not protected from paying consequences once your racist rant goes viral, no.

Actually, you are. Despite the fact you would so happily throw that precious right away, the courts won't.

That's a bunch of BS. I can't say whatever I want and expect to keep my job.

The school has a code of conduct, and those students signed papers agreeing to the code of conduct before they started class.

You know, Carla, I would think you, of all people, would get this. The thing that prevents public schools from requiring students to pray is the First Amendment. You are arguing the First Amendment doesn't apply to public schools. You're chasing a pretty butterfly right off a cliff.

 

[Carla_Danger]

You are not protected from paying consequences once your racist rant goes viral, no.

Actually, you are. Despite the fact you would so happily throw that precious right away, the courts won't.

That's a bunch of BS. I can't say whatever I want and expect to keep my job.

The school has a code of conduct, and those students signed papers agreeing to the code of conduct before they started class.

Again, being a student is not a "job." And a public university is not a typical employer.

They had to sign papers agreeing to the code of conduct.

Plenty of codes of conduct have been found unconstitutional, or have been modified when confronted by groups such as F.I.R.E.

Then let them take it to court. I think that's a stupid idea for several reasons. First, it's obvious that when you sing about "N's" hanging from a tree, it is going to create a hostile educational environment for others. Second, I think it will bring to light other racist activity going on in frat houses.

Fraternity: Investigations underway in Texas, Louisiana

Fraternity Investigations underway in Texas Louisiana - AOL.com

KFOR reports the Oklahoma State University fraternity has taken down the Confederate flag inside the student's room.

 

[martybegan]

It's not private when someone posts the video of it on youtube.

Public speech isn't protected? I can say what I please so long as I don't let anyone hear me do it?

You are not protected from paying consequences once your racist rant goes viral, no.

Actually, you are. Despite the fact you would so happily throw that precious right away, the courts won't.

That's a bunch of BS. I can't say whatever I want and expect to keep my job.

The school has a code of conduct, and those students signed papers agreeing to the code of conduct before they started class.

You know, Carla, I would think you, of all people, would get this. The thing that prevents public schools from requiring students to pray is the First Amendment. You are arguing the First Amendment doesn't apply to public schools. You're chasing a pretty butterfly right off a cliff.

They get it. Its just that the believe rights are mutable to whichever they agree with.

 

[Carla_Danger]

It's not private when someone posts the video of it on youtube.

Public speech isn't protected? I can say what I please so long as I don't let anyone hear me do it?

You are not protected from paying consequences once your racist rant goes viral, no.

Actually, you are. Despite the fact you would so happily throw that precious right away, the courts won't.

That's a bunch of BS. I can't say whatever I want and expect to keep my job.

The school has a code of conduct, and those students signed papers agreeing to the code of conduct before they started class.

You know, Carla, I would think you, of all people, would get this. The thing that prevents public schools from requiring students to pray is the First Amendment. You are arguing the First Amendment doesn't apply to public schools. You're chasing a pretty butterfly right off a cliff.

In college, you have to sign a code of conduct. You must sign an agreement. What part of that don't you get?

 

[PratchettFan]

You are not protected from paying consequences once your racist rant goes viral, no.

Actually, you are. Despite the fact you would so happily throw that precious right away, the courts won't.

That's a bunch of BS. I can't say whatever I want and expect to keep my job.

The school has a code of conduct, and those students signed papers agreeing to the code of conduct before they started class.

Again, being a student is not a "job." And a public university is not a typical employer.

They had to sign papers agreeing to the code of conduct.

Plenty of codes of conduct have been found unconstitutional, or have been modified when confronted by groups such as F.I.R.E.

Agree. You cannot sign away your rights, nor can a public entity require you to.

 

[martybegan]

Actually, you are. Despite the fact you would so happily throw that precious right away, the courts won't.

That's a bunch of BS. I can't say whatever I want and expect to keep my job.

The school has a code of conduct, and those students signed papers agreeing to the code of conduct before they started class.

Again, being a student is not a "job." And a public university is not a typical employer.

They had to sign papers agreeing to the code of conduct.

Plenty of codes of conduct have been found unconstitutional, or have been modified when confronted by groups such as F.I.R.E.

Then let them take it to court. I think that's a stupid idea for several reasons. First, it's obvious that when you sing about "N's" hanging from a tree, it is going to create a hostile educational environment for others. Second, I think it will bring to light other racist activity going on in frat houses.

Fraternity: Investigations underway in Texas, Louisiana

Fraternity Investigations underway in Texas Louisiana - AOL.com

KFOR reports the Oklahoma State University fraternity has taken down the Confederate flag inside the student's room.

They were not threatening any specific person, nor was there any person in direct contact with them when the song was sung to BE threatened.

Also, are you now implying students should be suspended for hanging a confederate flag? A flag that is part of several state flags?

 

[martybegan]

Public speech isn't protected? I can say what I please so long as I don't let anyone hear me do it?

You are not protected from paying consequences once your racist rant goes viral, no.

Actually, you are. Despite the fact you would so happily throw that precious right away, the courts won't.

That's a bunch of BS. I can't say whatever I want and expect to keep my job.

The school has a code of conduct, and those students signed papers agreeing to the code of conduct before they started class.

You know, Carla, I would think you, of all people, would get this. The thing that prevents public schools from requiring students to pray is the First Amendment. You are arguing the First Amendment doesn't apply to public schools. You're chasing a pretty butterfly right off a cliff.

In college, you have to sign a code of conduct. You must sign an agreement. What part of that don't you get?

Agreements that violate constitutional rights are null and void.