Expectations of Minimum Wage

[DustyInfinity]

I'm sure this thread has been done to death, but I have never followed any as of yet. I think it boils down to one simple question. Are minimum wage jobs meant to support and raise families, to be the primary income for families? Does it make sense for someone working at McDonald's for 30 hrs a week, if they can get those hours, to say hey, I think I'll have three kids? I know many Republicans make the erroneous statement that it is just high school kids getting their first jobs. Many, many adults work minimum wage jobs, and many adults are not able to move up to better jobs. This doesn't change anything however, because if you are an adult, I would hope you would not try to start a family on a minimum wage job. Why do Democrats think that adults who work minimum wage jobs should have kids they can't afford? I have a strong hunch that the attempt to make every single job in America a bread winning family supporting job is a folly. Does it make sense that every job should guarantee the ability to raise a family? I think it makes more sense for people to wait to have kids until if or when they can afford them. Is that a radical idea?

 

[Toronado3800]

I'm sure this thread has been done to death, but I have never followed any as of yet. I think it boils down to one simple question. Are minimum wage jobs meant to support and raise families, to be the primary income for families? Does it make sense for someone working at McDonald's for 30 hrs a week, if they can get those hours, to say hey, I think I'll have three kids? I know many Republicans make the erroneous statement that it is just high school kids getting their first jobs. Many, many adults work minimum wage jobs, and many adults are not able to move up to better jobs. This doesn't change anything however, because if you are an adult, I would hope you would not try to start a family on a minimum wage job. Why do Democrats think that adults who work minimum wage jobs should have kids they can't afford? I have a strong hunch that the attempt to make every single job in America a bread winning family supporting job is a folly. Does it make sense that every job should guarantee the ability to raise a family? I think it makes more sense for people to wait to have kids until if or when they can afford them. Is that a radical idea?

I dunno. Its a deep topic. Minimum wage going up is going to cause inflation. Inflation will lessen the burden of plenty of bad mortgages.

Also consider those for illegals are effectively for people working under minimum wage. Those against illegals are demanding businesses pay at least minimum wage.

 

[Supposn]

I'm sure this thread has been done to death, but I have never followed any as of yet. I think it boils down to one simple question. Are minimum wage jobs meant to support and raise families, to be the primary income for families? ...

DustyInfinity, your questioning if the purchasing power of “minimum wage jobs meant to support and raise families, to be the primary income for families?”, is not the essential question regarding the Federal Minimum Wage rate.

Due to the concept of wage differential, the purchasing power of the Federal Minimum Wage rate bolsters the purchasing powers of all USA wage scales. Wages are the primary incomes of almost every USA family and the vast preponderance of individuals within the 3d fifth of USA's income earners. They are essentially USA's earners of our median income. The purchasing power of USA's median income determines USA's living standards and is very much dependent upon the purchasing power of the minimum rate.

The essential question is what purchasing power of USA's median wage and living standards is the minimum wage meant to support?

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Supposn]

I dunno. Its a deep topic. Minimum wage going up is going to cause inflation. Inflation will lessen the burden of plenty of bad mortgages.

Also consider those for illegals are effectively for people working under minimum wage. Those against illegals are demanding businesses pay at least minimum wage.

Toronado3800, the minimum wage rate is not among the primary drivers of U.S. dollar's inflation. The U.S. dollar continues to lose purchasing power when the minimum is or is not increased.

The purchasing power of USA's minimum rate is among the driving forces of our median wage and that does determine our nation's living standards.

“Consider those for illegals are effectively for people working under minimum wage”? Where does that come from? Are you contending that people promoting illegal migration into the USA are generally also proponents of increasing the Federal Minimum Wage rate?

Illegal immigrants are attracted to the USA and are dependent upon employers that will hire them. Employers are pleased to hire illegals because they're more docile, more easily controlled, and will work for lesser wages. Those employers are not proponents of increasing the minimum rate.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Slyhunter]

The Minimum wage shouldn't be enough to support a family of 3. It should be enough to support yourself in decent living conditions. When partnering up with someone who also makes the minimum wage then it should be enough to support a family of 3.

If you are requiring a Bachelors degree to be employed there, you damn well better pay better than the minimum wage. Saw that on Facebook. If you require a college degree to work there, even an AS, then you should pay enough to live and go to college while working there. Too many jobs require experience only, only paying the minimum wage or right next to it. Minimum wage jobs are supposed to be entry level jobs and not require experience to work there.

 

[dblack]

I'm sure this thread has been done to death, but I have never followed any as of yet. I think it boils down to one simple question. Are minimum wage jobs meant to support and raise families, to be the primary income for families?

Interesting. See, for me, that question is completely irrelevant. I just don't believe in wage and price controls. I think they are an abuse of government power.

 

[Supposn]

USA's Federal Minimum Wage rate is applicable to the least desired employee, performing the least demanding task. That rate substantially effects USA's median rate and thus, effectively effects our nation's living standards.

Sly hunter, the minimum law legally defines the minimum rate and is involved only with the minimum. Minimum laws and regulations are not entangled within the weeds of details beyond the minimum rate. The legal text makes no explicit or implied references to experience, or education, or ability.

DBlack, you do not believe our nation's economy and living standards are matters of public interest and properly subject to voters considerations?

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[dblack]

DBlack, you do not believe our nation's economy and living standards are matters of public interest and properly subject to voters considerations?

I don't. I think it's a mistake on par with saying that religion is a matter "of public interest and properly subject to voter considerations". Both claims give government too much power over society.

The nation's economy is people, not money. Government control of the economy is government control of people. I'll never welcome that kind of tyranny, regardless of whether it's "democratic" or not.

 

[Supposn]

DBlack, you do not believe our nation's economy and living standards are matters of public interest and properly subject to voters considerations?

I don't. I think it's a mistake on par with saying that religion is a matter "of public interest and properly subject to voter considerations". Both claims give government too much power over society.

The nation's economy is people, not money. Government control of the economy is government control of people. I'll never welcome that kind of tyranny, regardless of whether it's "democratic" or not.

Dblack, I suppose you're completely aware of the U.S. Constitution's first amendment's words, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, …” ?

Although you've attempted to equate government establishing or promoting a religious concept as being similar to our federal minimum wage rate, our United States Congress and our Supreme Court does not share your viewpoint.

Regarding your second paragraph within post #8 of this discussion thread, your position, “The nation's economy is people, not money. Government control of the economy is government control of people”, is far from clear. I doubt if you clearly understand what you're trying to assert.

The minimum wage rate is not government control over wages, and it's certainly not government control of (USA's) economy or its population.

Are you contending that government cannot prohibit kidnapping or extortion because they are economic matters? What if we did not prohibit those acts but simply put an additional tax surcharge on profits due to those commercial enterprises? Then if entrepreneurs did not identify their acts and itemize their profits, we could get them for tax evasion?

I doubt that's what you're advocating. Please further explain your position.

Respectfully Supposn

 

[Toronado3800]

I dunno. Its a deep topic. Minimum wage going up is going to cause inflation. Inflation will lessen the burden of plenty of bad mortgages.

Also consider those for illegals are effectively for people working under minimum wage. Those against illegals are demanding businesses pay at least minimum wage.

Toronado3800, the minimum wage rate is not among the primary drivers of U.S. dollar's inflation. The U.S. dollar continues to lose purchasing power when the minimum is or is not increased.

The purchasing power of USA's minimum rate is among the driving forces of our median wage and that does determine our nation's living standards.

“Consider those for illegals are effectively for people working under minimum wage”? Where does that come from? Are you contending that people promoting illegal migration into the USA are generally also proponents of increasing the Federal Minimum Wage rate?

Illegal immigrants are attracted to the USA and are dependent upon employers that will hire them. Employers are pleased to hire illegals because they're more docile, more easily controlled, and will work for lesser wages. Those employers are not proponents of increasing the minimum rate.

Respectfully, Supposn

-Inflation is and isn't a problem. That 30 year mortgage seems a lot lighter after 30 years of wage inflation. When is the last time we had an inflation problem?

-People promoting illegal immigration are AGAINST minimum wage. Illegal immigrants work for less than minimum wage.

-People who say illegal immigrants are bad for the economy obviously are for minimum wage. If not having minimum wage was good for the economy then illegal immigrants who don't work for minimum wage and who don't have all them pesky OSHA protections would be the best thing ever for the economy.

 

[Supposn]

-Inflation is and isn't a problem. That 30 year mortgage seems a lot lighter after 30 years of wage inflation. When is the last time we had an inflation problem?

-People promoting illegal immigration are AGAINST minimum wage. Illegal immigrants work for less than minimum wage.

-People who say illegal immigrants are bad for the economy obviously are for minimum wage. If not having minimum wage was good for the economy then illegal immigrants who don't work for minimum wage and who don't have all them pesky OSHA protections would be the best thing ever for the economy.

Tornado3800, those promoting illegal emigration do so by hiring illegals to work for less than U.S. Labor- market rates, (which are not necessarily less than any specific or proposed minimum rate).

Those promoting illegal emigration by hiring illegals are opposed to effective enforcement of the minimum wage, but their additional profits are dependent upon the extent that they can illegally undermine the minimum rate, rather than whatever is or will be the explicit minimum rate.

You correctly surmise those promoting illegal emigration by hiring illegals profit by disobeying whatever are U.S. minimum wage rate or health and safety regulations.

Lesser legally mandated or enforced occupational health or safety regulations, or minimum wage rate are detrimental to our nation's economic and social conditions.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[dblack]

DBlack, you do not believe our nation's economy and living standards are matters of public interest and properly subject to voters considerations?

I don't. I think it's a mistake on par with saying that religion is a matter "of public interest and properly subject to voter considerations". Both claims give government too much power over society.

The nation's economy is people, not money. Government control of the economy is government control of people. I'll never welcome that kind of tyranny, regardless of whether it's "democratic" or not.

Dblack, I suppose you're completely aware of the U.S. Constitution's first amendment's words, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, …” ?

What? Why do you say that?

Although you've attempted to equate government establishing or promoting a religious concept as being similar to our federal minimum wage rate, our United States Congress and our Supreme Court does not share your viewpoint.

Don't care. It doesn't change my opinion on the matter.

Regarding your second paragraph within post #8 of this discussion thread, your position, “The nation's economy is people, not money. Government control of the economy is government control of people”, is far from clear. I doubt if you clearly understand what you're trying to assert.

Your doubt (and insulting tone) is noted.

The minimum wage rate is not government control over wages, and it's certainly not government control of (USA's) economy or its population.

Yes, it is.

Are you contending that government cannot prohibit kidnapping or extortion because they are economic matters?
What if we did not prohibit those acts but simply put an additional tax surcharge on profits due to those commercial enterprises? Then if entrepreneurs did not identify their acts and itemize their profits, we could get them for tax evasion?

Not sure what you're talking about here. It sounds idiotic.

I doubt that's what you're advocating. Please further explain your position.

Respectfully Supposn

I don't think I will. Your response was not 'Respectful'. It was dishonest and full of strawmanning garbage. Try again.

 

[Brain357]

I'm sure this thread has been done to death, but I have never followed any as of yet. I think it boils down to one simple question. Are minimum wage jobs meant to support and raise families, to be the primary income for families?

Interesting. See, for me, that question is completely irrelevant. I just don't believe in wage and price controls. I think they are an abuse of government power.

I’ve always agreed with you. But now I see incredibly low unemployment and almost no wage increases. The market appears to be broken.

 

[dblack]

I'm sure this thread has been done to death, but I have never followed any as of yet. I think it boils down to one simple question. Are minimum wage jobs meant to support and raise families, to be the primary income for families?

Interesting. See, for me, that question is completely irrelevant. I just don't believe in wage and price controls. I think they are an abuse of government power.

I’ve always agreed with you. But now I see incredibly low unemployment and almost no wage increases. The market appears to be broken.

There are all kinds of things broken. All kinds of bad policy distorting the actual preferences of consumers. But I reject the idea that there's some ideal state of the market that government should pursue. The market is just people freely trading. The government's responsibility is to protect their freedom, not to "coach them toward desired results.

 

[Brain357]

I'm sure this thread has been done to death, but I have never followed any as of yet. I think it boils down to one simple question. Are minimum wage jobs meant to support and raise families, to be the primary income for families?

Interesting. See, for me, that question is completely irrelevant. I just don't believe in wage and price controls. I think they are an abuse of government power.

I’ve always agreed with you. But now I see incredibly low unemployment and almost no wage increases. The market appears to be broken.

There are all kinds of things broken. All kinds of bad policy distorting the actual preferences of consumers. But I reject the idea that there's some ideal state of the market that government should pursue. The market is just people freely trading. The government's responsibility is to protect their freedom, not to "coach them toward desired results.

We really need healthy wage markets. But I agree politicians can’t be trusted.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I dunno. Its a deep topic. Minimum wage going up is going to cause inflation. Inflation will lessen the burden of plenty of bad mortgages.

Also consider those for illegals are effectively for people working under minimum wage. Those against illegals are demanding businesses pay at least minimum wage.

Toronado3800, the minimum wage rate is not among the primary drivers of U.S. dollar's inflation. The U.S. dollar continues to lose purchasing power when the minimum is or is not increased.

The purchasing power of USA's minimum rate is among the driving forces of our median wage and that does determine our nation's living standards.

“Consider those for illegals are effectively for people working under minimum wage”? Where does that come from? Are you contending that people promoting illegal migration into the USA are generally also proponents of increasing the Federal Minimum Wage rate?

Illegal immigrants are attracted to the USA and are dependent upon employers that will hire them. Employers are pleased to hire illegals because they're more docile, more easily controlled, and will work for lesser wages. Those employers are not proponents of increasing the minimum rate.

Respectfully, Supposn

The purchasing power of USA's minimum rate is among the driving forces of our median wage

The bottom few percent of wage earners don't do anything to drive our median wage.

 

[Supposn]

I dunno. Its a deep topic. Minimum wage going up is going to cause inflation. Inflation will lessen the burden of plenty of bad mortgages.

Also consider those for illegals are effectively for people working under minimum wage. Those against illegals are demanding businesses pay at least minimum wage.

Toronado3800, the minimum wage rate is not among the primary drivers of U.S. dollar's inflation. The U.S. dollar continues to lose purchasing power when the minimum is or is not increased.

The purchasing power of USA's minimum rate is among the driving forces of our median wage and that does determine our nation's living standards.

“Consider those for illegals are effectively for people working under minimum wage”? Where does that come from? Are you contending that people promoting illegal migration into the USA are generally also proponents of increasing the Federal Minimum Wage rate?

Illegal immigrants are attracted to the USA and are dependent upon employers that will hire them. Employers are pleased to hire illegals because they're more docile, more easily controlled, and will work for lesser wages. Those employers are not proponents of increasing the minimum rate.

Respectfully, Supposn

The purchasing power of USA's minimum rate is among the driving forces of our median wage

The bottom few percent of wage earners don't do anything to drive our median wage.

ToddsterPatriot, you prefer to appear ignorant but you're well aware of federal minimum wage's boosts to all USA wages. It doesn't affect all wages and wage scales equally. It's effect's greater for lower, and lesser for higher wages. Its effect is proportionally inverse to the difference between the minimum's and the job's wage rates.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I dunno. Its a deep topic. Minimum wage going up is going to cause inflation. Inflation will lessen the burden of plenty of bad mortgages.

Also consider those for illegals are effectively for people working under minimum wage. Those against illegals are demanding businesses pay at least minimum wage.

Toronado3800, the minimum wage rate is not among the primary drivers of U.S. dollar's inflation. The U.S. dollar continues to lose purchasing power when the minimum is or is not increased.

The purchasing power of USA's minimum rate is among the driving forces of our median wage and that does determine our nation's living standards.

“Consider those for illegals are effectively for people working under minimum wage”? Where does that come from? Are you contending that people promoting illegal migration into the USA are generally also proponents of increasing the Federal Minimum Wage rate?

Illegal immigrants are attracted to the USA and are dependent upon employers that will hire them. Employers are pleased to hire illegals because they're more docile, more easily controlled, and will work for lesser wages. Those employers are not proponents of increasing the minimum rate.

Respectfully, Supposn

The purchasing power of USA's minimum rate is among the driving forces of our median wage

The bottom few percent of wage earners don't do anything to drive our median wage.

ToddsterPatriot, you prefer to appear ignorant but you're well aware of federal minimum wage's boosts to all USA wages. It doesn't affect all wages and wage scales equally. It's effect's greater for lower, and lesser for higher wages. Its effect is proportionally inverse to the difference between the minimum's and the job's wage rates.

Respectfully, Supposn

you're well aware of federal minimum wage's boosts to all USA wages.

Show me how the wages of the bottom 2 million workers boosts all wages.
If you can, use more than just your ill-educated feelings in your proof.

 

[Supposn]

you're well aware of federal minimum wage's boosts to all USA wages.

Show me how the wages of the bottom 2 million workers boosts all wages.
If you can, use more than just your ill-educated feelings in your proof.

ToddsterPatriot, your pretense of ignorance is not (as you seem to believe), particularly cute.
I suppose but will not waste my time searching to confirm, if you are or aren't among those explicitly referring to economic concepts as economic “laws”. Linguistics is not among my major interests.

Due to the economic concept of “wage differentials”, to the extent of the federal minimum wage rate's purchasing power and its legal enforcement in the USA, it also to some extent bolsters all other than USA's minimum wage rate. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

you're well aware of federal minimum wage's boosts to all USA wages.

Show me how the wages of the bottom 2 million workers boosts all wages.
If you can, use more than just your ill-educated feelings in your proof.

ToddsterPatriot, your pretense of ignorance is not (as you seem to believe), particularly cute.
I suppose but will not waste my time searching to confirm, if you are or aren't among those explicitly referring to economic concepts as economic “laws”. Linguistics is not among my major interests.

Due to the economic concept of “wage differentials”, to the extent of the federal minimum wage rate's purchasing power and its legal enforcement in the USA, it also to some extent bolsters all other than USA's minimum wage rate. Respectfully, Supposn

ToddsterPatriot, your pretense of ignorance is not (as you seem to believe), particularly cute.

Your ignorant claims and recommendations aren't cute either.

Due to the economic concept of “wage differentials”, to the extent of the federal minimum wage rate's purchasing power and its legal enforcement in the USA, it also to some extent bolsters all other than USA's minimum wage rate.

I've never had a job where my compensation was based on multiples of the minimum wage.

When the minimum wage was increased in the past, I never received a notification from HR that said "since the minimum wage was increased by X, wages across the board will now increase by (X+Y) or by (X*Y)".

Have you?