Examples of Christian respect for critical thinking, and individuality

[ding]

And I should care why?

I always care when an oppressive organisation brainwashes a large group of people into wilful ignorance, and stupidity. Especially when those people then are able to influence the secular government of the nation.

I'm suspicious of anyone who believes their way of thinking is the only acceptable mode of thought.

Kinda the point of the OP. It isn't atheism that discourages free thinking, and individuality. That would be religion.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

You have that exactly backwards. There are tens of thousands of diverse religions. You don't want diversity. You want uniformity.

Your religion is socialism acts which worships big government and social policy. It is based on atheism and deification of man. It proceeds in almost all its manifestations from the assumption that the basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts. You have no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. Your doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and communality or equality. The religious nature of socialism explains the extraordinary attraction to socialist doctrines and its capacity to inflame individuals and inspire popular movements and condemn respect for any who believe in Christianity. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural marxism and normalization of deviance. Their hostility towards traditional religions is that of an animosity between a rival religion. They can be identified by an external locus of control. They worship science but are the first to argue against it. Socialism intentionally denies examination. In fact there is no formal defined dogma. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something noble and good, of equality, communal ownership, and justice: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. World socialism as a whole, and all the figures associated with it, are shrouded in legend; its contradictions are forgotten or concealed; it does not respond to arguments but continually ignores them--all this stems from the mist of irrationality that surrounds socialism and from its instinctive aversion to scientific analysis. Socialism dismisses its defeats and ignores its incongruities. Shafarevich points out with great precision both the cause and the genesis of the first socialist doctrines, which he characterizes as reactions: Plato as a reaction to Greek culture, and the Gnostics as a reaction to Christianity. They sought to counteract the endeavor of the human spirit to stand erect, and strove to return to the earthbound existence of the primitive states of antiquity. He convincingly demonstrates the diametrical opposition between the concepts of man held by religion and by socialism. Socialism seeks to reduce human personality to its most primitive levels and to extinguish the highest, most complex, and "God-like" aspects of human individuality. And even equality itself, that powerful appeal and great promise of socialists throughout the ages, turns out to signify not equality of rights, of opportunities, and of external conditions, but equality qua identity, equality seen as the movement of variety toward uniformity.


Alexander I. Solzhenitsyn -- A World Split Apart — Commencement Address Delivered At Harvard University, June 8, 1978

The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich

You keep posting that stupid cut and paste like it actually seems like you're making a point. No one bothers responding because no one cares about your bullshit cut and paste. Although you do make my point for me. You are incapable of actual individual thought, so all of your responses are bullshit cut and paste passages you have read, from sources that you allow to tell you what to to think.

Too bad you gave your ability to think for yourself over to your religion.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

I post it because it is true and I am sharing with others. I am happy enough to let them decide for themselves if it has merit. Those statements are readily verifiable through your actions, behaviors and words. Let's let them decide for themselves. After all that is what free thinking is all about, right?

It is because of religion that I am objective and a free thinker. You practice critical theory, not critical thinking. Critical theory is the theory to unfairly criticize everything that you don't believe in to validate what you do believe in. The problem is that you never test what you do believe. Critical thinking is used to test what you do believe. Critical theory is used to test what you don't believe. Now do you understand the difference? You are no free thinker. I have yet to hear you make a positive case for atheism. Your case for atheism is religion is bad. That's not critical thinking.

 

[fncceo]

I want people to think for themselves.

And you're willing to ridicule and disparage anyone who doesn't think for themselves in the same way as you.

That's not freedom of thought, it's freedom FROM thought.

 

[ding]

And I should care why?

I always care when an oppressive organisation brainwashes a large group of people into wilful ignorance, and stupidity. Especially when those people then are able to influence the secular government of the nation.

So you want others to believe as you do.

I want people to think for themselves.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Bullshit. You want everyone to think as you do.

 

[Czernobog]

I want people to think for themselves.

And you're willing to ridicule and disparage anyone who doesn't think for themselves in the same way as you.

That's not freedom of thought, it's freedom FROM thought.

I'm willing to ridicule anyone who replaces thought with superstition.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[ding]

From an anthropological perspective, why do you think that groups with religious cultures, out competed groups without?

This is an excellent question. I doubt he will answer it. I'll give him a chance but if he doesn't, I will.

 

[ding]

I want people to think for themselves.

And you're willing to ridicule and disparage anyone who doesn't think for themselves in the same way as you.

That's not freedom of thought, it's freedom FROM thought.

I'm willing to ridicule anyone who replaces thought with superstition.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Which is why you troll religious forums, right?

 

[Correll]

I want people to think for themselves.

And you're willing to ridicule and disparage anyone who doesn't think for themselves in the same way as you.

That's not freedom of thought, it's freedom FROM thought.

I'm willing to ridicule anyone who replaces thought with superstition.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

You've started such threads before, and I always ask you about the topic from an anthropological or cultural evolution perspective.


Because I find such discussions of interest.


Yet, you never have anything to say about the science of what role religion plays in the development of societies, especially in the development of Western culture.


Which greatly undermines your pretense of being reasonable and open minded about this.

 

[Czernobog]

From an anthropological perspective, why do you think that groups with religious cultures, out competed groups without?

Well, I would argue that, at least as far as monotheistic religions, that's not always been true.

How many monotheistic empires have existed in the world? To my knowledge, one: The Holy Roman Empire. Polytheistic, or secular? The Romans, The Greeks, The Macedonians, the Egyptians, and many others too numerous to mention.

Now has Christianity been better at wiping the others out of existence? Sure. But, I don't think being good at genocide, and systematically destroying anyone who didn't convert is exactly an endorsement for religion.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[ding]

And I should care why?

I always care when an oppressive organisation brainwashes a large group of people into wilful ignorance, and stupidity. Especially when those people then are able to influence the secular government of the nation.

It would be really nice if maybe you could tell us what good atheism has done for the world besides murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

Sure, because not a single murder, or crime has been ever committed by a Christian. That would be why Christians make up more than 60% of prison population in this country. But, religion does soooo much good...

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

You are proving my point that your only case for atheism is attacking religion. I just gave you an opportunity to tell me what good atheism has done and your answer to that was, "Sure, because not a single murder, or crime has been ever committed by a Christian. That would be why Christians make up more than 60% of prison population in this country. But, religion does soooo much good..."

How did that make the positive case for atheism? It didn't. You are literally making a negative case for religion as your justification for atheism. How exactly is that an example of free thinking?

Basically you are saying follow atheism because religion is bad. Wow. That's one compelling argument you have there.

 

[Czernobog]

And I should care why?

I always care when an oppressive organisation brainwashes a large group of people into wilful ignorance, and stupidity. Especially when those people then are able to influence the secular government of the nation.

It would be really nice if maybe you could tell us what good atheism has done for the world besides murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

Sure, because not a single murder, or crime has been ever committed by a Christian. That would be why Christians make up more than 60% of prison population in this country. But, religion does soooo much good...

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

You are proving my point that your only case for atheism is attacking religion. I just gave you an opportunity to tell me what good atheism has done and your answer to that was, "Sure, because not a single murder, or crime has been ever committed by a Christian. That would be why Christians make up more than 60% of prison population in this country. But, religion does soooo much good..."

How did that make the positive case for atheism? It didn't. You are literally making a negative case for religion as your justification for atheism. How exactly is that an example of free thinking?

Basically you are saying follow atheism because religion is bad. Wow. That's one compelling argument you have there.

What an interesting take you have. What you actually did was attack atheism with a fake statistic about murder. What I did was respond with data about religion.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[ding]

From an anthropological perspective, why do you think that groups with religious cultures, out competed groups without?

Well, I would argue that, at least as far as monotheistic religions, that's not always been true.

How many monotheistic empires have existed in the world? To my knowledge, one: The Holy Roman Empire. Polytheistic, or secular? The Romans, The Greeks, The Macedonians, the Egyptians, and many others too numerous to mention.

Now has Christianity been better at wiping the others out of existence? Sure. But, I don't think being good at genocide, and systematically destroying anyone who didn't convert is exactly an endorsement for religion.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

That's the biggest bullshit answer I have ever heard. The reason for the success of religion is that virtue is the greatest organizing principle and that is what religion teaches. Furthermore, as a rule, people who follow the values from religion are happier which leads to natural success. Do you need for me to provide the science on this or would you prefer to spout more mumbo jumbo bullshit which does not explain the success of Western Civilization or any other group of religious people?

 

[ding]

And I should care why?

I always care when an oppressive organisation brainwashes a large group of people into wilful ignorance, and stupidity. Especially when those people then are able to influence the secular government of the nation.

It would be really nice if maybe you could tell us what good atheism has done for the world besides murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

Sure, because not a single murder, or crime has been ever committed by a Christian. That would be why Christians make up more than 60% of prison population in this country. But, religion does soooo much good...

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

You are proving my point that your only case for atheism is attacking religion. I just gave you an opportunity to tell me what good atheism has done and your answer to that was, "Sure, because not a single murder, or crime has been ever committed by a Christian. That would be why Christians make up more than 60% of prison population in this country. But, religion does soooo much good..."

How did that make the positive case for atheism? It didn't. You are literally making a negative case for religion as your justification for atheism. How exactly is that an example of free thinking?

Basically you are saying follow atheism because religion is bad. Wow. That's one compelling argument you have there.

What an interesting take you have. What you actually did was attack atheism with a fake statistic about murder. What I did was respond with data about religion.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Ummm... you mean after I made the positive case for religion?

 

[Czernobog]

From an anthropological perspective, why do you think that groups with religious cultures, out competed groups without?

Well, I would argue that, at least as far as monotheistic religions, that's not always been true.

How many monotheistic empires have existed in the world? To my knowledge, one: The Holy Roman Empire. Polytheistic, or secular? The Romans, The Greeks, The Macedonians, the Egyptians, and many others too numerous to mention.

Now has Christianity been better at wiping the others out of existence? Sure. But, I don't think being good at genocide, and systematically destroying anyone who didn't convert is exactly an endorsement for religion.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

That's the biggest bullshit answer I have ever heard. The reason for the success of religion is that virtue is the greatest organizing principle and that is what religion teaches. Furthermore, as a rule, people who follow the values from religion are happier which leads to natural success. Do you need for me to provide the science on this or would you prefer to spout more mumbo jumbo bullshit which does not explain the success of Western Civilization or any other group of religious people?

That is the bullshit answer. The reason Christianity has "succeeded" is because they burned, drowned, hung or put to the sword anyone who dared disagree with them.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Czernobog]

I always care when an oppressive organisation brainwashes a large group of people into wilful ignorance, and stupidity. Especially when those people then are able to influence the secular government of the nation.

It would be really nice if maybe you could tell us what good atheism has done for the world besides murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

Sure, because not a single murder, or crime has been ever committed by a Christian. That would be why Christians make up more than 60% of prison population in this country. But, religion does soooo much good...

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

You are proving my point that your only case for atheism is attacking religion. I just gave you an opportunity to tell me what good atheism has done and your answer to that was, "Sure, because not a single murder, or crime has been ever committed by a Christian. That would be why Christians make up more than 60% of prison population in this country. But, religion does soooo much good..."

How did that make the positive case for atheism? It didn't. You are literally making a negative case for religion as your justification for atheism. How exactly is that an example of free thinking?

Basically you are saying follow atheism because religion is bad. Wow. That's one compelling argument you have there.

What an interesting take you have. What you actually did was attack atheism with a fake statistic about murder. What I did was respond with data about religion.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Ummm... you mean after I made the positive case for religion?

You mean with made up bullshit you copied from a website?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[ding]

From an anthropological perspective, why do you think that groups with religious cultures, out competed groups without?

Well, I would argue that, at least as far as monotheistic religions, that's not always been true.

How many monotheistic empires have existed in the world? To my knowledge, one: The Holy Roman Empire. Polytheistic, or secular? The Romans, The Greeks, The Macedonians, the Egyptians, and many others too numerous to mention.

Now has Christianity been better at wiping the others out of existence? Sure. But, I don't think being good at genocide, and systematically destroying anyone who didn't convert is exactly an endorsement for religion.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

That's the biggest bullshit answer I have ever heard. The reason for the success of religion is that virtue is the greatest organizing principle and that is what religion teaches. Furthermore, as a rule, people who follow the values from religion are happier which leads to natural success. Do you need for me to provide the science on this or would you prefer to spout more mumbo jumbo bullshit which does not explain the success of Western Civilization or any other group of religious people?

That is the bullshit answer. The reason Christianity has "succeeded" is because they burned, drowned, hung or put to the sword anyone who dared disagree with them.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Wrong. Religious people in general and Christians specifically succeed because religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. These are successful behaviors which naturally lead to happiness and success. Dopamine serves two purposes; 1. it makes us feel happy ; 2. it turns on all the learning centers of the brain. Scientific studies show that people with positive attitudes (i.e. happy people) perform 33% better than people who are neutral, negative or stressed. Scientific studies show that the values and practices taught through religion train the brain to be in a happy state of mind.

 

[ding]

It would be really nice if maybe you could tell us what good atheism has done for the world besides murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

Sure, because not a single murder, or crime has been ever committed by a Christian. That would be why Christians make up more than 60% of prison population in this country. But, religion does soooo much good...

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

You are proving my point that your only case for atheism is attacking religion. I just gave you an opportunity to tell me what good atheism has done and your answer to that was, "Sure, because not a single murder, or crime has been ever committed by a Christian. That would be why Christians make up more than 60% of prison population in this country. But, religion does soooo much good..."

How did that make the positive case for atheism? It didn't. You are literally making a negative case for religion as your justification for atheism. How exactly is that an example of free thinking?

Basically you are saying follow atheism because religion is bad. Wow. That's one compelling argument you have there.

What an interesting take you have. What you actually did was attack atheism with a fake statistic about murder. What I did was respond with data about religion.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Ummm... you mean after I made the positive case for religion?

You mean with made up bullshit you copied from a website?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Really? Which website did I copy that from, Einstein?

 

[Czernobog]

From an anthropological perspective, why do you think that groups with religious cultures, out competed groups without?

Well, I would argue that, at least as far as monotheistic religions, that's not always been true.

How many monotheistic empires have existed in the world? To my knowledge, one: The Holy Roman Empire. Polytheistic, or secular? The Romans, The Greeks, The Macedonians, the Egyptians, and many others too numerous to mention.

Now has Christianity been better at wiping the others out of existence? Sure. But, I don't think being good at genocide, and systematically destroying anyone who didn't convert is exactly an endorsement for religion.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

That's the biggest bullshit answer I have ever heard. The reason for the success of religion is that virtue is the greatest organizing principle and that is what religion teaches. Furthermore, as a rule, people who follow the values from religion are happier which leads to natural success. Do you need for me to provide the science on this or would you prefer to spout more mumbo jumbo bullshit which does not explain the success of Western Civilization or any other group of religious people?

That is the bullshit answer. The reason Christianity has "succeeded" is because they burned, drowned, hung or put to the sword anyone who dared disagree with them.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Wrong. Religious people in general and Christians specifically succeed because religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. These are successful behaviors which naturally lead to happiness and success. Dopamine serves two purposes; 1. it makes us feel happy ; 2. it turns on all the learning centers of the brain. Scientific studies show that people with positive attitudes (i.e. happy people) perform 33% better than people who are neutral, negative or stressed. Scientific studies show that the values and practices taught through religion train the brain to be in a happy state of mind.

Sure, and I'm sure the Crusades, the inquisitions, the bloody campaigns into pagan lands, killing anyone who would not convert, the conquistadors, and all of the other Christian atrocities against non-christians had nothing to do with it.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[ding]

And I should care why?

I always care when an oppressive organisation brainwashes a large group of people into wilful ignorance, and stupidity. Especially when those people then are able to influence the secular government of the nation.

It would be really nice if maybe you could tell us what good atheism has done for the world besides murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

Sure, because not a single murder, or crime has been ever committed by a Christian. That would be why Christians make up more than 60% of prison population in this country. But, religion does soooo much good...

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Are you ever going to make a positive case for atheism?

Just so you know what a positive case looks like, here's my positive case for religion.

Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Religion is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man. Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Religious persons and institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility Religion teaches accountability and responsibility. Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Religion helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Religion brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Religion gave us America. Religion gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

 

[Czernobog]

And I should care why?

I always care when an oppressive organisation brainwashes a large group of people into wilful ignorance, and stupidity. Especially when those people then are able to influence the secular government of the nation.

It would be really nice if maybe you could tell us what good atheism has done for the world besides murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

Sure, because not a single murder, or crime has been ever committed by a Christian. That would be why Christians make up more than 60% of prison population in this country. But, religion does soooo much good...

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Are you ever going to make a positive case for atheism?

Just so you know what a positive case looks like, here's my positive case for religion.

Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Religion is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man. Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Religious persons and institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility Religion teaches accountability and responsibility. Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Religion helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Religion brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Religion gave us America. Religion gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

Are you ever going to make an argument using your own words, and thoughts?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[ding]

From an anthropological perspective, why do you think that groups with religious cultures, out competed groups without?

Well, I would argue that, at least as far as monotheistic religions, that's not always been true.

How many monotheistic empires have existed in the world? To my knowledge, one: The Holy Roman Empire. Polytheistic, or secular? The Romans, The Greeks, The Macedonians, the Egyptians, and many others too numerous to mention.

Now has Christianity been better at wiping the others out of existence? Sure. But, I don't think being good at genocide, and systematically destroying anyone who didn't convert is exactly an endorsement for religion.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

That's the biggest bullshit answer I have ever heard. The reason for the success of religion is that virtue is the greatest organizing principle and that is what religion teaches. Furthermore, as a rule, people who follow the values from religion are happier which leads to natural success. Do you need for me to provide the science on this or would you prefer to spout more mumbo jumbo bullshit which does not explain the success of Western Civilization or any other group of religious people?

That is the bullshit answer. The reason Christianity has "succeeded" is because they burned, drowned, hung or put to the sword anyone who dared disagree with them.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Wrong. Religious people in general and Christians specifically succeed because religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. These are successful behaviors which naturally lead to happiness and success. Dopamine serves two purposes; 1. it makes us feel happy ; 2. it turns on all the learning centers of the brain. Scientific studies show that people with positive attitudes (i.e. happy people) perform 33% better than people who are neutral, negative or stressed. Scientific studies show that the values and practices taught through religion train the brain to be in a happy state of mind.

Sure, and I'm sure the Crusades, the inquisitions, the bloody campaigns into pagan lands, killing anyone who would not convert, the conquistadors, and all of the other Christian atrocities against non-christians had nothing to do with it.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Again you are proving my point that you cannot make a posoitive case for atheism. Can you imagine Ford airing a commercial that tells prospective customers, "we're not GM." Ridiculous. Can you make a positive case for atheism?