Ex-Pastor Turned American Atheist Director

[turzovka]

Prayer does work. I've seen it happen too many times to deny it. Miraculous events occurring when people faithfully petition the Lord.

But if you don't believe, I understand. I might be the in the same place if I didn't have the experiences I have had.

The Lord is merciful to those who seek mercy. And He is just against the wicked.

Morrison also sang in "When the Music's Over" about going to hell, but then at the end of the song screams out "Persian Night! See the Light! Save Us! Jesus! Save Us!"

I would say he was doing a little petitioning of his own.

(fyi, an epic song of unheralded proportions, imo)

"When the music's over" is not about going to hell...its about abandoning religious beliefs (cancel my subscription to the resurrection) that places his friends in prison which also makes him a criminal, sinner..... "persian night" "see the light" is a reference to the magi who saw the star of bethlehem and his appeal to Jesus was from having abandoned false religion and needing a new one but not knowing what it is.....

I hope you are right because Morrison and the The Doors are way on top over all musicians for me. And I had figured out the Persian Night reference for myself after years of pondering. Love it!

But as far as "cancel my subscription to the resurrection" is concerned... well he follows that with "send my credentials to the house of detention." Then... "I got some friends inside." All that sounds rather hellish to me? Again, I hope your theory prevails. Morrison was a gentle, kind and charitable soul in many ways. I would not dare to judge him. I know God is merciful in ways man cannot see.

 

[hobelim]

I hope you are right because Morrison and the The Doors are way on top over all musicians for me. And I had figured out the Persian Night reference for myself after years of pondering. Love it!

But as far as "cancel my subscription to the resurrection" is concerned... well he follows that with "send my credentials to the house of detention." Then... "I got some friends inside." All that sounds rather hellish to me? Again, I hope your theory prevails. Morrison was a gentle, kind and charitable soul in many ways. I would not dare to judge him. I know God is merciful in ways man cannot see.

People subscribe to beliefs. To cancel a subscription to the resurrection is a renouncement of such a belief. "Send my credentials to the house of detention...I got some friends inside." doesn't sound anymore hellish to me than the kind of hell Jesus and his friends experienced trying to promote a new way to understand life in the face of violent oppression.....

At the time Morrison, along with the entire counter culture movement, were deeply hated by the religious and political establishment as some sort of demonic plague. Skulls were cracked and people were thrown in prison for nothing more than wanting peace, smoking pot, listening to rock music and enjoying sex (the scream of the butterfly) in attempt to make the world a better place through freedom of expression and love..

Some people who were in positions of power and authority are still pissed off.

What are your thoughts on, "Turn out the lights. Turn out the lights. Turn out the lights"?

 

[turzovka]

I hope you are right because Morrison and the The Doors are way on top over all musicians for me. And I had figured out the Persian Night reference for myself after years of pondering. Love it!

But as far as "cancel my subscription to the resurrection" is concerned... well he follows that with "send my credentials to the house of detention." Then... "I got some friends inside." All that sounds rather hellish to me? Again, I hope your theory prevails. Morrison was a gentle, kind and charitable soul in many ways. I would not dare to judge him. I know God is merciful in ways man cannot see.

People subscribe to beliefs. To cancel a subscription to the resurrection is a renouncement of such a belief. "Send my credentials to the house of detention...I got some friends inside." doesn't sound anymore hellish to me than the kind of hell Jesus and his friends experienced trying to promote a new way to understand life in the face of violent oppression.....

At the time Morrison, along with the entire counter culture movement, were deeply hated by the religious and political establishment as some sort of demonic plague. Skulls were cracked and people were thrown in prison for nothing more than wanting peace, smoking pot, listening to rock music and enjoying sex (the scream of the butterfly) in attempt to make the world a better place through freedom of expression and love..

Some people who were in positions of power and authority are still pissed off.

What are your thoughts on, "Turn out the lights. Turn out the lights. Turn out the lights"?

Even though this is my all time favorite song, I never gave that verse too much deep thought. I always looked at it as Morrison's consent that he had chose to dance and now it was time to pay the piper. He accepted his fate of condemnation for he had rebelled against God for the sake of pleasure and self indulgence. He understood and blamed no one.

What I really hate about that phrase is that many claim those were Hitler's last words before he committed suicide to his confidant (Goebels, not sure?) But allegedly he said "when the music's over turn out the lights." I sure as heck hope that is total baloney.

As to your theory or philosophy on the other verses, I am not a big proponent of the love generation in the least, even though I was part of it. Young in the sixties but by the seventies I was heavily into pot and rock music and enjoying the thrills and laughter of youth. But to think that generation had any real insight on a new way of looking at life was horribly naïve. They chucked far too many necessary responsibilities and only looked at the thrill of the moment, and "everybody just love one another." Yeah, that worked great. To me it was far more a motto of "he that soweth the wind, reap the whirlwind." (Cue the following mindless generation)

 

[hobelim]

People subscribe to beliefs. To cancel a subscription to the resurrection is a renouncement of such a belief. "Send my credentials to the house of detention...I got some friends inside." doesn't sound anymore hellish to me than the kind of hell Jesus and his friends experienced trying to promote a new way to understand life in the face of violent oppression.....

At the time Morrison, along with the entire counter culture movement, were deeply hated by the religious and political establishment as some sort of demonic plague. Skulls were cracked and people were thrown in prison for nothing more than wanting peace, smoking pot, listening to rock music and enjoying sex (the scream of the butterfly) in attempt to make the world a better place through freedom of expression and love..

Some people who were in positions of power and authority are still pissed off.

What are your thoughts on, "Turn out the lights. Turn out the lights. Turn out the lights"?

Even though this is my all time favorite song, I never gave that verse too much deep thought. I always looked at it as Morrison's consent that he had chose to dance and now it was time to pay the piper. He accepted his fate of condemnation for he had rebelled against God for the sake of pleasure and self indulgence. He understood and blamed no one.

What I really hate about that phrase is that many claim those were Hitler's last words before he committed suicide to his confidant (Goebels, not sure?) But allegedly he said "when the music's over turn out the lights." I sure as heck hope that is total baloney.

As to your theory or philosophy on the other verses, I am not a big proponent of the love generation in the least, even though I was part of it. Young in the sixties but by the seventies I was heavily into pot and rock music and enjoying the thrills and laughter of youth. But to think that generation had any real insight on a new way of looking at life was horribly naïve. They chucked far too many necessary responsibilities and only looked at the thrill of the moment, and "everybody just love one another." Yeah, that worked great. To me it was far more a motto of "he that soweth the wind, reap the whirlwind." (Cue the following mindless generation)

Knowing where you are coming from I can understand why you would think the song was about abandoning God and accepting the consequences, hell.

I see it as a rejection of religion, not God, and knowingly accepting the consequences, being hated and reviled persecuted and imprisoned by the people who supported the religions they rejected..

And I don't think they had any real insight on a new way to understand life as much as they had an insight that the old way of life was barren and were searching for a better way based on love, hence "save us, Jesus." which seems to contradict your interpretation that Morrison rejected a belief in Jesus or God.

I think we as a society are only beginning to reap the fruits of their efforts that can be measured by real advances in freedom , equality, and justice that would not be happening at all had they not been so naive as to believe that they could change the world.

BTW, I have a much more positive opinion of the generations that followed. They are knowingly and deliberately moving things forward. Haven't you noticed? I would hardly call them mindless.

 

[turzovka]

People subscribe to beliefs. To cancel a subscription to the resurrection is a renouncement of such a belief. "Send my credentials to the house of detention...I got some friends inside." doesn't sound anymore hellish to me than the kind of hell Jesus and his friends experienced trying to promote a new way to understand life in the face of violent oppression.....

At the time Morrison, along with the entire counter culture movement, were deeply hated by the religious and political establishment as some sort of demonic plague. Skulls were cracked and people were thrown in prison for nothing more than wanting peace, smoking pot, listening to rock music and enjoying sex (the scream of the butterfly) in attempt to make the world a better place through freedom of expression and love..

Some people who were in positions of power and authority are still pissed off.

What are your thoughts on, "Turn out the lights. Turn out the lights. Turn out the lights"?

Even though this is my all time favorite song, I never gave that verse too much deep thought. I always looked at it as Morrison's consent that he had chose to dance and now it was time to pay the piper. He accepted his fate of condemnation for he had rebelled against God for the sake of pleasure and self indulgence. He understood and blamed no one.

What I really hate about that phrase is that many claim those were Hitler's last words before he committed suicide to his confidant (Goebels, not sure?) But allegedly he said "when the music's over turn out the lights." I sure as heck hope that is total baloney.

As to your theory or philosophy on the other verses, I am not a big proponent of the love generation in the least, even though I was part of it. Young in the sixties but by the seventies I was heavily into pot and rock music and enjoying the thrills and laughter of youth. But to think that generation had any real insight on a new way of looking at life was horribly naïve. They chucked far too many necessary responsibilities and only looked at the thrill of the moment, and "everybody just love one another." Yeah, that worked great. To me it was far more a motto of "he that soweth the wind, reap the whirlwind." (Cue the following mindless generation)

Knowing where you are coming from I can understand why you would think the song was about abandoning God and accepting the consequences, hell.

I see it as a rejection of religion, not God, and knowingly accepting the consequences, being hated and reviled persecuted and imprisoned by the people who supported the religions they rejected..

And I don't think they had any real insight on a new way to understand life as much as they had an insight that the old way of life was barren and were searching for a better way based on love, hence "save us, Jesus." which seems to contradict your interpretation that Morrison rejected a belief in Jesus or God.

I think we as a society are only beginning to reap the fruits of their efforts that can be measured by real advances in freedom , equality, and justice that would not be happening at all had they not been so naive as to believe that they could change the world.

BTW, I have a much more positive opinion of the generations that followed. They are knowingly and deliberately moving things forward. Haven't you noticed? I would hardly call them mindless.

The mindless generation comment was hyperbole for the sake of emphasizing a particular reality. It by no means can convict the whole person (good and evil in each of us) and certainly not a whole generation. Suffice it to say there is a greater preponderance of hedonism and a disinterest in God by the generations that exceed those parents who also think that way. America stands in serious judgment either as its future keeps eroding morally, or towards those particulars who have lived for themselves. Others of this present age remain as saints towards others, either secular or spiritual ones.

It strikes me as though you are too hard on Christianity. To call it “religion” creates an unfair class action guilt. If Islam goes to war with those who will not believe as them, how is it the fault of “religion?” It is the fault of Islam. Christianity, despite its many grave sins, has been a beacon of light, charity, defense of the defenseless, and advancements of civilizations in too many ways to count.

You give the ideas and creeds of the 60’s generation more credit or valor than I do. Surely they advanced some principles or morals, such as overcoming racial or other prejudices, but they abandoned others just as necessary, imo. We all can learn from the experiences of past generations, but we all can become even more corrupt as well. Newer does not always mean better. I hope your are right in that societies and the world are heading towards more peaceful times. I remain gravely concerned.

 

[THE LIGHT]

She overcame her mental illness

Ex-Pastor Turned American Atheist Director Tells How She Lost Faith

How do you know he isn't still mentally ill? What is the scientific basis for your assertion?

 

[Manonthestreet]

Doesnt sound like she ever had any faith........btw what was she doing in seminary as all those questions are addressed?

 

[hobelim]

The mindless generation comment was hyperbole for the sake of emphasizing a particular reality. It by no means can convict the whole person (good and evil in each of us) and certainly not a whole generation. Suffice it to say there is a greater preponderance of hedonism and a disinterest in God by the generations that exceed those parents who also think that way. America stands in serious judgment either as its future keeps eroding morally, or towards those particulars who have lived for themselves. Others of this present age remain as saints towards others, either secular or spiritual ones.

It strikes me as though you are too hard on Christianity. To call it “religion” creates an unfair class action guilt. If Islam goes to war with those who will not believe as them, how is it the fault of “religion?” It is the fault of Islam. Christianity, despite its many grave sins, has been a beacon of light, charity, defense of the defenseless, and advancements of civilizations in too many ways to count.

You give the ideas and creeds of the 60’s generation more credit or valor than I do. Surely they advanced some principles or morals, such as overcoming racial or other prejudices, but they abandoned others just as necessary, imo. We all can learn from the experiences of past generations, but we all can become even more corrupt as well. Newer does not always mean better. I hope your are right in that societies and the world are heading towards more peaceful times. I remain gravely concerned.

I said that 'cancel my subscription to the resurrection' was a rejection of a religious belief, one that happens to be shared by many religions.

If you felt that I was being too hard on Christianity perhaps its because what I said struck home because I am sure that you are well aware that it was from the christian pulpit the counter culture movement was reviled as satanic which as a consequence gave politicians, lawmakers and the police a false sense of moral superiority to enact laws and domestic policies targeting them as some sort of punishment as if it was a religious duty to crack skulls and round them all up into the house of detention for having different thoughts and views about life.

And what makes you think that people who do not share your repressed views on human sexuality and do not have a belief in a triune god or any expectation for a literal resurrection of the dead have a disinterest in God and are eroding morally on some sort of disaster course?

Perhaps in this day and age with all that is known about truth and reality to perpetuate such beliefs impossible to be true is what is immoral and why you are having a vague sense of impending doom.

what happened to you? Who convinced you that it was all idealistic bullshit that you should feel bad about and repent of and instead needed to worship an edible god made man made matzoh made by human hands?

Seriously, you gave up having a good time and partying for that?? Damn.

Where is your faith?


break on through to the other side.