Every Third Child In Gaza Stunted by Hunger

[rhodescholar]

Todd - And why does one side, and one side only, have to be responsible for the malnutrition? Isn't it possible both Palestinian terror groups and Israeli policy contribute to the problem?

How many billions in aid from abroad, including the UN and Iran, flow into gaza each year?

How much goes towards food, and how much towards weapons?

You claimed to be a journalist, yet seem to be devoid of the most basic facts. Did you do any research before attacking israel? I doubt it, b/c if you had, you'd know that they send in all non-weapons aid, excluding items like concrete that can be used to build bunkers/pill boxes, etc., each day.

BTW, your later post complaining about how the karni and other crossings is further proof you are severely lacking in the basic skills of a journalist; Israel had opened multiple crossings FOR YEARS until the arab terrorists began firing rockets at them, sending suicide bombers into them, etc.

If you are going to complain about a situation, get some facts behind you, or you're going to sound like the idiot, clueless rabble here like loincloth/liq-me, tin-turd, etc. I generally don't lump you in with that garbage, don't make me start doing so now.

 

[Saigon]

Camp David sucked? what should you think Israel should do besides just all comitting mass suicide and let the Palestinians have everything?

According to Reinhart (who is an Israeli Jew) the offer cut Palestinian territory into 4 separate enclaves, partitioned with Israeli highways and 'free fire zones'.

Palestinians would not have controlled their own borders, ports or airports.

She claims the total Palestinian state would have been something like 18% smaller than the current West Bank & Gaza, because of Israel land seizures and the 'free fire zones'.

If she is correct (and some sources say she is not), then the offer was a dog.

Can you imagine one country split into 4 enclaves?

 

[rhodescholar]

It's possible. I read one book by the Israeli author Tanya Reinhart which said the offer was completely unacceptable, and that no leader could have accepted it...but other sources say it was the best deal likely to ever be offered. Possibly both statements are true, unfortunately.

Really? First off, after spending the prior decades murdering jews, they were lucky to be even alive, let alone still allowed to live there. Other nations like jordan and qatar had ALREADY expelled all of the pal arabs, so the fact that israel was still even willing to negotiate was astounding to me.

Second, if we were to actually review the offer, they got 98% of the territory they requested - and the country was to be de-militarised - what was the problem there? Oh that's right - arafat was the issue - if he ever made peace, he would no longer be needed, and his stolen billions would have been investigated and found. Couldn't have that now, could we - it would mean Suha could not live on her $100,000/month income in Paris anymore...

 

[Saigon]

Todd - And why does one side, and one side only, have to be responsible for the malnutrition? Isn't it possible both Palestinian terror groups and Israeli policy contribute to the problem?

How many billions in aid from abroad, including the UN and Iran, flow into gaza each year?

How much goes towards food, and how much towards weapons?

.

Actually, the overwhelming majority of aid to Gaza is in the form of food, medical and structural aid.

It is not just a bag of cash.

Of course - and obviously - there are multiple border crossings into Gaza, and most of them are open much of the time. No one disputes this.

The point is that some shipments have been blocked by Israelis, often without clear reasons being given. These delays and stoppages have, at times, cause severe shortages. There is a link to a story on this posted earlier, I'd be happy to post it again.

(btw. As to my work as a journalist, I don't currently cover the ME - I cover Africa. My last trip into the region for work was 2006.)

 

[rhodescholar]

According to Reinhart (who is an Israeli Jew) the offer cut Palestinian territory into 4 separate enclaves, partitioned with Israeli highways and 'free fire zones'. Palestinians would not have controlled their own borders, ports or airports.
She claims the total Palestinian state would have been something like 18% smaller than the current West Bank & Gaza, because of Israel land seizures and the 'free fire zones'.
If she is correct (and some sources say she is not), then the offer was a dog. Can you imagine one country split into 4 enclaves?

She can claim whatever she wants, clinton and dennis ross have already written what was offered, and her story is garbage. Clinton to this day is livid that arafat rejected the offer, and instead chose terrorism.

 

[Saigon]

if we were to actually review the offer, they got 98% of the territory they requested - and the country was to be de-militarised - what was the problem there? Oh that's right - arafat was the issue - if he ever made peace, he would no longer be needed, and his stolen billions would have been investigated and found. Couldn't have that now, could we - it would mean Duha could not live on her $100,000/month income in Paris anymore...

I totally agree that Arafat was a horrendous leader in many ways. Corrupt, mercurial, and prone to inexplicable decision making.

But that does not mean that the offer - if it was 4 separate enclaves - was a good one.

P.S. Many sites detailing the offer show the West Bank as a single entity. Reinhart maintains that the map did not show the highways and free fire zones - it was these which cut the West Bank into enclaves.

 

[High_Gravity]

Camp David sucked? what should you think Israel should do besides just all comitting mass suicide and let the Palestinians have everything?

According to Reinhart (who is an Israeli Jew) the offer cut Palestinian territory into 4 separate enclaves, partitioned with Israeli highways and 'free fire zones'.

Palestinians would not have controlled their own borders, ports or airports.

She claims the total Palestinian state would have been something like 18% smaller than the current West Bank & Gaza, because of Israel land seizures and the 'free fire zones'.

If she is correct (and some sources say she is not), then the offer was a dog.

Can you imagine one country split into 4 enclaves?

I can understand that but I want to hear if Tinmore has something better, all he has said is the deal sucked. Tinmore just want the Israelis to pack their bags and move away and is not being realistic.

 

[Artevelde]

if we were to actually review the offer, they got 98% of the territory they requested - and the country was to be de-militarised - what was the problem there? Oh that's right - arafat was the issue - if he ever made peace, he would no longer be needed, and his stolen billions would have been investigated and found. Couldn't have that now, could we - it would mean Duha could not live on her $100,000/month income in Paris anymore...

I totally agree that Arafat was a horrendous leader in many ways. Corrupt, mercurial, and prone to inexplicable decision making.

But that does not mean that the offer - if it was 4 separate enclaves - was a good one.

P.S. Many sites detailing the offer show the West Bank as a single entity. Reinhart maintains that the map did not show the highways and free fire zones - it was these which cut the West Bank into enclaves.

No, the offer was not very good. But it was there. The Palestinians refused it. The next offer will be worse.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Camp David sucked? what should you think Israel should do besides just all comitting mass suicide and let the Palestinians have everything?

According to Reinhart (who is an Israeli Jew) the offer cut Palestinian territory into 4 separate enclaves, partitioned with Israeli highways and 'free fire zones'.

Palestinians would not have controlled their own borders, ports or airports.

She claims the total Palestinian state would have been something like 18% smaller than the current West Bank & Gaza, because of Israel land seizures and the 'free fire zones'.

If she is correct (and some sources say she is not), then the offer was a dog.

Can you imagine one country split into 4 enclaves?

That is true. Israel would even control the Jordan valley. Nothing and nobody could move around inside Palestine or to the outside world without Israel's permission.

Anytime Israel got a hair up its ass it could close down the whole thing.

 

[Saigon]

Tinmore -

If this thing about Israel controlling the Jordan Valley is true, then I understand Arafat rejecting it. The idea that any one country would control a border between two other countries is simply bizarre.

I can understand Israel having security concerns about that area, but surely UN inspectors would be a better option than Israel controlling a line of land that surrounded the WB.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Tinmore -

If this thing about Israel controlling the Jordan Valley is true, then I understand Arafat rejecting it. The idea that any one country would control a border between two other countries is simply bizarre.

I can understand Israel having security concerns about that area, but surely UN inspectors would be a better option than Israel controlling a line of land that surrounded the WB.

 

[Artevelde]

Tinmore -

If this thing about Israel controlling the Jordan Valley is true, then I understand Arafat rejecting it. The idea that any one country would control a border between two other countries is simply bizarre.

I can understand Israel having security concerns about that area, but surely UN inspectors would be a better option than Israel controlling a line of land that surrounded the WB.

Yes, because UN inspectors have been such a great succes in the Middle East right?

 

[High_Gravity]

Tinmore -

If this thing about Israel controlling the Jordan Valley is true, then I understand Arafat rejecting it. The idea that any one country would control a border between two other countries is simply bizarre.

I can understand Israel having security concerns about that area, but surely UN inspectors would be a better option than Israel controlling a line of land that surrounded the WB.

The UN couldn't even control a group of unruly girl scouts and you want them dealing with Hamas? yikes.

 

[rhodescholar]

FAKE MAP

Sharon was not even prime minister during camp david you stupid fucking jackass:

2000 Camp David Summit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Saigon]

Tinmore -

If this thing about Israel controlling the Jordan Valley is true, then I understand Arafat rejecting it. The idea that any one country would control a border between two other countries is simply bizarre.

I can understand Israel having security concerns about that area, but surely UN inspectors would be a better option than Israel controlling a line of land that surrounded the WB.

The UN couldn't even control a group of unruly girl scouts and you want them dealing with Hamas? yikes.

The UN have got an excellent track record in the area - very successful missions in the Golan Heights and in Southern Lebanon (UNiFiL).

The UN troops do fine if they have a clear and strong mandate - when they don't, they can't do anything.

 

[High_Gravity]

Tinmore -

If this thing about Israel controlling the Jordan Valley is true, then I understand Arafat rejecting it. The idea that any one country would control a border between two other countries is simply bizarre.

I can understand Israel having security concerns about that area, but surely UN inspectors would be a better option than Israel controlling a line of land that surrounded the WB.

The UN couldn't even control a group of unruly girl scouts and you want them dealing with Hamas? yikes.

The UN have got an excellent track record in the area - very successful missions in the Golan Heights and in Southern Lebanon (UNiFiL).

The UN troops do fine if they have a clear and strong mandate - when they don't, they can't do anything.

Lebanon is still a Hezbollah strong hold though right?

 

[Artevelde]

Tinmore -

If this thing about Israel controlling the Jordan Valley is true, then I understand Arafat rejecting it. The idea that any one country would control a border between two other countries is simply bizarre.

I can understand Israel having security concerns about that area, but surely UN inspectors would be a better option than Israel controlling a line of land that surrounded the WB.

The UN couldn't even control a group of unruly girl scouts and you want them dealing with Hamas? yikes.

The UN have got an excellent track record in the area - very successful missions in the Golan Heights and in Southern Lebanon (UNiFiL).

The UN troops do fine if they have a clear and strong mandate - when they don't, they can't do anything.

Why do you keep spouting such blatant lies. The UN in Lebanon did nothing to stop terrorist attacks across the border and were completely ineffective in bringing any kind of security. Same for the Sinai in an earlier period.

 

[Saigon]

Lebanon is still a Hezbollah strong hold though right?

Very much so - but UNIFIL has never been asked to do anything about Hezbollah.

I have no problem with blaming the UN for its obvious failings, but you can not criticise the UN troops for not performing tasks they have never been asked to do - that is the failing of the Security Council.

For instance - UN troops in Rwanda reported the location of four major caches of weapons days before the start of the genocide, and asked for specific permission to shoot they way in, seize the weapons, and shoot their way out if necessary.

That permission was denied by the UNSC.

I was in Golan a few years back, and talked to a lot of local people about the UN, and heard oonly good things about them. They've done what they said they would do, and done it very well.

I'd have no problem at all assigning the UN to monitor the borders of a future Palestinian state, or to monitor Jersualem, but they'd have to have a mandate to do what they need to do.

 

[rhodescholar]

Very much so - but UNIFIL has never been asked to do anything about Hezbollah.

WTF are you talking about? Their mandate was to prevent the re-armification of hezbollah, and they've failed completely.

 

[Saigon]

Rhodes -

It depends exactly when and where we are talking about, because the UN have been in Lebanon for many years, since long before Hezbollah even existed. The original mandate did not mention Hezbollah at all for this reason - there was no Hezbollah.


The United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, or UNIFIL, was created by the United Nations, with the adoption of Security Council Resolution 425 and 426 on 19 March 1978, to confirm Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon which Israel had invaded five days prior, restore international peace and security, and help the Government of Lebanon restore its effective authority in the area.[1]

The first UNIFIL troops were deployed in the area on 23 March 1978; these troops were reassigned from other UN peacekeeping operations in the area (namely the United Nations Emergency Force and the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force Zone).[1]

During the occupation, UNIFIL's function was mainly to provide humanitarian aid.[2]

UNIFIL's mandate is renewed by United Nations Security Council annually. Current mandate expires on 31 August 2012

United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia