Europe Wakes Up A Bit

[Billy_Kinetta]

Starve them into submission. Maybe the Iranian people will get fed up enough to kill the bastards.

Isolated Iran leader lashes out at Europe as nations join US in ramping up pressure

The North Wind and the Sun is one of Aesop's Fables (Perry Index 46). The moral it teaches about the superiority of persuasion over force has made the story widely known.

The story concerns a competition between the North Wind and the Sun to decide which is the stronger of the two. The challenge was to make a passing traveler remove his cloak. However hard the North Wind blew, the traveler only wrapped his cloak tighter to keep warm, but when the Sun shone, the traveler was overcome with heat and soon took his cloak off.

but when the Sun shone, the traveler was overcome with heat and soon took his cloak off.

I agree, we should turn up the heat on Iran.

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[martybegan]

Starve them into submission. Maybe the Iranian people will get fed up enough to kill the bastards.

Isolated Iran leader lashes out at Europe as nations join US in ramping up pressure

The North Wind and the Sun is one of Aesop's Fables (Perry Index 46). The moral it teaches about the superiority of persuasion over force has made the story widely known.

The story concerns a competition between the North Wind and the Sun to decide which is the stronger of the two. The challenge was to make a passing traveler remove his cloak. However hard the North Wind blew, the traveler only wrapped his cloak tighter to keep warm, but when the Sun shone, the traveler was overcome with heat and soon took his cloak off.

In WWII, the Axis powers were not persuaded. End of lesson.

Wrong lesson. We bombed Germany's cities night and day just as Germany bombed the Brit's cities before them. The results were the same, no capitulation. If anything, the bombing made the people more patriotic and united.

What it made them is admit the fact they were totally defeated, which made rebuilding them in a way that we wanted easier.

We turned two militaristic societies into a bunch of bankers and salarymen.

This guy tried persuasion, didn't work too well.

You also learned the wrong lesson. The aerial bombing of Britain and Germany did NOT make them admit the fact they were totally defeated. Britain never gave up and Germany had to be occupied by ground forces.

The air campaign had a large part of that, besides the actual destruction it prevented them from increasing their war production rapidly enough to at least attempt to make good their losses. It also forced them to keep airpower in central Germany when it could have been better used in France and the Eastern Front.

 

[martybegan]

The North Wind and the Sun is one of Aesop's Fables (Perry Index 46). The moral it teaches about the superiority of persuasion over force has made the story widely known.

The story concerns a competition between the North Wind and the Sun to decide which is the stronger of the two. The challenge was to make a passing traveler remove his cloak. However hard the North Wind blew, the traveler only wrapped his cloak tighter to keep warm, but when the Sun shone, the traveler was overcome with heat and soon took his cloak off.

In WWII, the Axis powers were not persuaded. End of lesson.

Wrong lesson. We bombed Germany's cities night and day just as Germany bombed the Brit's cities before them. The results were the same, no capitulation. If anything, the bombing made the people more patriotic and united.

What it made them is admit the fact they were totally defeated, which made rebuilding them in a way that we wanted easier.

We turned two militaristic societies into a bunch of bankers and salarymen.

This guy tried persuasion, didn't work too well.

You also learned the wrong lesson. The aerial bombing of Britain and Germany did NOT make them admit the fact they were totally defeated. Britain never gave up and Germany had to be occupied by ground forces.

Your point was your thinking that persuasion is superior to force. They are the same.

When reason fails, force remains.

No one has said that the bombing of Germany was all that made them surrender. As to Japan, the second drop did.

The Strategic Air Campaign showed Germany it couldn't stand up on even footing to the allies as far as quantities of materiel and men. If forced them to keep air forces and AA forces in Germany that could have been used elsewhere. Same with Japan.

On the other hand all the US needed to keep in country were basically training cadres. All war needed men and material could be shipped out as quick as it was trained/produced.

 

[gipper]

Starve them into submission. Maybe the Iranian people will get fed up enough to kill the bastards.

Isolated Iran leader lashes out at Europe as nations join US in ramping up pressure

Yeah it’s good to starve Iranian women and children. After all, they’re crazed animals.

Why do Americans think it their right to harm people of other nations, just because their oligarchy wants it so?

 

[alang1216]

In WWII, the Axis powers were not persuaded. End of lesson.

Wrong lesson. We bombed Germany's cities night and day just as Germany bombed the Brit's cities before them. The results were the same, no capitulation. If anything, the bombing made the people more patriotic and united.

What it made them is admit the fact they were totally defeated, which made rebuilding them in a way that we wanted easier.

We turned two militaristic societies into a bunch of bankers and salarymen.

This guy tried persuasion, didn't work too well.

You also learned the wrong lesson. The aerial bombing of Britain and Germany did NOT make them admit the fact they were totally defeated. Britain never gave up and Germany had to be occupied by ground forces.

Your point was your thinking that persuasion is superior to force. They are the same.

When reason fails, force remains.

No one has said that the bombing of Germany was all that made them surrender. As to Japan, the second drop did.

The Strategic Air Campaign showed Germany it couldn't stand up on even footing to the allies as far as quantities of materiel and men. If forced them to keep air forces and AA forces in Germany that could have been used elsewhere. Same with Japan.

On the other hand all the US needed to keep in country were basically training cadres. All war needed men and material could be shipped out as quick as it was trained/produced.

I agree with all you said but the fact is that aerial bombing alone did not convince either Germany or Britain to sue for peace.

 

[martybegan]

Wrong lesson. We bombed Germany's cities night and day just as Germany bombed the Brit's cities before them. The results were the same, no capitulation. If anything, the bombing made the people more patriotic and united.

What it made them is admit the fact they were totally defeated, which made rebuilding them in a way that we wanted easier.

We turned two militaristic societies into a bunch of bankers and salarymen.

This guy tried persuasion, didn't work too well.

You also learned the wrong lesson. The aerial bombing of Britain and Germany did NOT make them admit the fact they were totally defeated. Britain never gave up and Germany had to be occupied by ground forces.

Your point was your thinking that persuasion is superior to force. They are the same.

When reason fails, force remains.

No one has said that the bombing of Germany was all that made them surrender. As to Japan, the second drop did.

The Strategic Air Campaign showed Germany it couldn't stand up on even footing to the allies as far as quantities of materiel and men. If forced them to keep air forces and AA forces in Germany that could have been used elsewhere. Same with Japan.

On the other hand all the US needed to keep in country were basically training cadres. All war needed men and material could be shipped out as quick as it was trained/produced.

I agree with all you said but the fact is that aerial bombing alone did not convince either Germany or Britain to sue for peace.

My point wasn't about the government suing for peace, it was about convincing the people to give up entirely once it was over.

The combination of full occupation with the pounding from the air they got the last 2 years of the war sold the people on the fact they were beaten, unlike the first time around.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Starve them into submission. Maybe the Iranian people will get fed up enough to kill the bastards.

Isolated Iran leader lashes out at Europe as nations join US in ramping up pressure

The North Wind and the Sun is one of Aesop's Fables (Perry Index 46). The moral it teaches about the superiority of persuasion over force has made the story widely known.

The story concerns a competition between the North Wind and the Sun to decide which is the stronger of the two. The challenge was to make a passing traveler remove his cloak. However hard the North Wind blew, the traveler only wrapped his cloak tighter to keep warm, but when the Sun shone, the traveler was overcome with heat and soon took his cloak off.

In WWII, the Axis powers were not persuaded. End of lesson.

Wrong lesson. We bombed Germany's cities night and day just as Germany bombed the Brit's cities before them. The results were the same, no capitulation. If anything, the bombing made the people more patriotic and united.

The Brits bombed German cities, but the US bombed the industrial base, making it impossible for the German government to feed its people or field an effective military force. the lesson to be learned is that if we destroy the economy, the government will not be able to afford to fund foreign wars in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen and Gaza and pursue nuclear weapons while also feeding the people. Already Iranians are protesting in the streets about the price of gasoline and the scarcity of fresh meant, and conditions will only get worse. Add to this the killing of Soleimani and the very weak response of the IRGC has shown the even the most exalted and protected of high officials is vulnerable that the lying about shooting down the Ukrainian plane that the government cannot be trusted, and we have the perfect storm that will blow away the current leadership and force Iran to make serious concessions to sue for peace.

Iran will not surrender to the US, but the regime will surrender to the Iranian people who will demand the government stop spending money on foreign wars and terrorism and on nuclear weapons so that it can care for the people of Iran.