Ethical Dilemma

[ABikerSailor]

It wasnt that they were rowdy.It was the specifics of what they were saying.

Oh, so you were "offended" by what they were saying? You sound like a self-righteous asshole.

Hey, there have been times that I have told people who were bullying others to knock it off. Even have stopped a couple of fights. Had some poor dude walking down the street with his girlfriend get jumped by two dudes at the base of my driveway. Went out there, told them to knock it off, and that the cops were being called, but that was because they were kicking the dude on the ground and that is assault in my eyes.

I personally can't stand those who think it's okay to berate others in public just because they look different.

 

[Tilly]

I agree with BikerSailor. This isn't a free speech or ethical issue at all. Some guys were rowdy, when asked to cool it, they did. My only issue with this whole affair is trying to imagine being threatened by Tommy and a guy similar to him.

It wasnt that they were rowdy.It was the specifics of what they were saying. And, make no mistake, I can be quite feisty when roused.

Doubtful

 

[Tilly]

If the owners/manager/servers didn't like the behaviour of the diners they could ask them to leave. This is an imaginative story, imho.
At least the OP knew not to go too far and allege he confronted a group of men.

 

[Tilly]

"Oi Mo - more lager here mate. Step on it and theres a virgin in it for ya"

You said it was behind the waiters back. You should at least get your story straight

 

[2aguy]

So we have a few of us out on a liquid night around town.

Its nudging midnight and the vote is for food rather than a club.

So we adjourn to our favourite curry house and settle in for a spicy feast.

Anyway there is another party on the next table.

Middle aged blokes not too dissimilar to us.

And they seem to be as drunk as we are.

We order our food and some drinks and are soon munching on popadoms.

But the Guys on the next table are a bit loud and are starting to be obnoxious.

They are abusing the staff. Not overmuch to their faces but very much so behind their backs.

And its nothing to do with the quality of the food or ambience or service.

Its straight on anti islamic crap.

"Oi Mo - more lager here mate. Step on it and theres a virgin in it for ya"

Bombing jokes get rolled out as well.

Anyway at some point during this one of our party gets up,walks over and tells these muppets that they are out of line and that we dont want to hear it anymore.

Obviously we are expecting a ruck so everyone is now standing up.

But it doesnt happen.

These gobshites seem a bit embarrassed and look at the table muttering:

"Yeah,yeah, no problem mate, sorry if we have upset ya. Just banter innit."

And that was the end of it. They behaved themselves for the rest of the time they were in there.

They paid and left before us. No idea who they were or even where they were from. I am guessing that they all had employers who would frown on employees getting involved in fights over racist abuse.

Now here is the question.

Did we stifle their right to "free speech" ?

What would you have done ?

It isn't free speech, it is in a private business.....speech can only be unfree if the government is doing it.

 

[2aguy]

Ladies and gentlemen, just so as you all know, none of what was described in the OP actually happened. After a few beers at home, alone, Tommy began fantasising over what it'd be like to 'confront' some boistrous right-wing types... before going upstairs for a pot noddle and a tearful wank.

Sadly, this is the CDZ....so you can't personally attack a poster.....please keep that in mind.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I look at it as they exercised their right to free speech, and your response was your right to free speech in commenting about their behavior.

They shut it down voluntarily. If you had beat the crap out of them to stop their loudmouth banter, then it would have been different.

Does free speech extend to insulting people?

Just because you can do something legally and not get locked up for it, doesn't mean it's your RIGHT to do so.

 

[2aguy]

I look at it as they exercised their right to free speech, and your response was your right to free speech in commenting about their behavior.

They shut it down voluntarily. If you had beat the crap out of them to stop their loudmouth banter, then it would have been different.

Does free speech extend to insulting people?

Just because you can do something legally and not get locked up for it, doesn't mean it's your RIGHT to do so.

Yeah, it does extend to insulting people...that is one of the points...insulting the government and insulting other people without having to fear violence.

 

[Tilly]

and that really wasn't a dilemma.

you really didn't have only two undesirable choices.

And IMO you should always mind your own business

Well the choice was do something or not do something. Neither were really attractive. We just wanted a quiet meal.

The decision was down to the restaurant staff and it seems as though they were OK with the situation - maybe they value money more than they care about what some idiots are muttering - but of course you also claimed this stuff was being said behind their backs so they weren't even aware of it.

Either way, it was their decision and it seems they chose to ignore it.
You and your drunk mates on the other hand, could have caused a fight and caused damage to the restaurant, which I'm sure the restaurant staff could do without.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I look at it as they exercised their right to free speech, and your response was your right to free speech in commenting about their behavior.

They shut it down voluntarily. If you had beat the crap out of them to stop their loudmouth banter, then it would have been different.

Does free speech extend to insulting people?

Just because you can do something legally and not get locked up for it, doesn't mean it's your RIGHT to do so.

Yeah, it does extend to insulting people...that is one of the points...insulting the government and insulting other people without having to fear violence.

But with free speech comes a responsibility.If you are going to be obnoxious then there might be consequences.
So you have the "right" to call me a jackass, but that would count as provocation and would mitigate my fine for punching you on the nose.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I look at it as they exercised their right to free speech, and your response was your right to free speech in commenting about their behavior.

They shut it down voluntarily. If you had beat the crap out of them to stop their loudmouth banter, then it would have been different.

Does free speech extend to insulting people?

Just because you can do something legally and not get locked up for it, doesn't mean it's your RIGHT to do so.

Yeah, it does extend to insulting people...that is one of the points...insulting the government and insulting other people without having to fear violence.

But with free speech comes a responsibility.If you are going to be obnoxious then there might be consequences.
So you have the "right" to call me a jackass, but that would count as provocation and would mitigate my fine for punching you on the nose.

Well actually one thing is you have a right to do something, and the other is that you can legally do something. They're not the same thing. Rights have limits far before the law gets involved.

 

[Tilly]

and that really wasn't a dilemma.

you really didn't have only two undesirable choices.

And IMO you should always mind your own business

Well the choice was do something or not do something. Neither were really attractive. We just wanted a quiet meal.

Restaurants full of drunks don't make for quiet meals. Why do you and your 'mates' get drunk before going out for a 'quiet' meal? Lol.

 

[baileyn45]

So we have a few of us out on a liquid night around town.

Its nudging midnight and the vote is for food rather than a club.

So we adjourn to our favourite curry house and settle in for a spicy feast.

Anyway there is another party on the next table.

Middle aged blokes not too dissimilar to us.

And they seem to be as drunk as we are.

We order our food and some drinks and are soon munching on popadoms.

But the Guys on the next table are a bit loud and are starting to be obnoxious.

They are abusing the staff. Not overmuch to their faces but very much so behind their backs.

And its nothing to do with the quality of the food or ambience or service.

Its straight on anti islamic crap.

"Oi Mo - more lager here mate. Step on it and theres a virgin in it for ya"

Bombing jokes get rolled out as well.

Anyway at some point during this one of our party gets up,walks over and tells these muppets that they are out of line and that we dont want to hear it anymore.

Obviously we are expecting a ruck so everyone is now standing up.

But it doesnt happen.

These gobshites seem a bit embarrassed and look at the table muttering:

"Yeah,yeah, no problem mate, sorry if we have upset ya. Just banter innit."

And that was the end of it. They behaved themselves for the rest of the time they were in there.

They paid and left before us. No idea who they were or even where they were from. I am guessing that they all had employers who would frown on employees getting involved in fights over racist abuse.

Now here is the question.

Did we stifle their right to "free speech" ?

What would you have done ?

Personally, I'd have told you to mind your own business. When I'm tipping a few with my close buddies we have two rules to joke telling, nothing is sacred and everyone gets it in the end. Pretty sad when the pc police follow you to the bar.

 

[Tilly]

So we have a few of us out on a liquid night around town.

Its nudging midnight and the vote is for food rather than a club.

So we adjourn to our favourite curry house and settle in for a spicy feast.

Anyway there is another party on the next table.

Middle aged blokes not too dissimilar to us.

And they seem to be as drunk as we are.

We order our food and some drinks and are soon munching on popadoms.

But the Guys on the next table are a bit loud and are starting to be obnoxious.

They are abusing the staff. Not overmuch to their faces but very much so behind their backs.

And its nothing to do with the quality of the food or ambience or service.

Its straight on anti islamic crap.

"Oi Mo - more lager here mate. Step on it and theres a virgin in it for ya"

Bombing jokes get rolled out as well.

Anyway at some point during this one of our party gets up,walks over and tells these muppets that they are out of line and that we dont want to hear it anymore.

Obviously we are expecting a ruck so everyone is now standing up.

But it doesnt happen.

These gobshites seem a bit embarrassed and look at the table muttering:

"Yeah,yeah, no problem mate, sorry if we have upset ya. Just banter innit."

And that was the end of it. They behaved themselves for the rest of the time they were in there.

They paid and left before us. No idea who they were or even where they were from. I am guessing that they all had employers who would frown on employees getting involved in fights over racist abuse.

Now here is the question.

Did we stifle their right to "free speech" ?

What would you have done ?

Personally, I'd have told you to mind your own business. When I'm tipping a few with my close buddies we have two rules to joke telling, nothing is sacred and everyone gets it in the end. Pretty sad when the pc police follow you to the bar.

It's also incredibly patronising to the restaurant staff, imho. They are probably very experienced in dealing with drunks like Tommy and his 'mates' and didn't need one group of drunks 'defending' them from the unpleasant jokes of another group of drunks.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So we have a few of us out on a liquid night around town.

Its nudging midnight and the vote is for food rather than a club.

So we adjourn to our favourite curry house and settle in for a spicy feast.

Anyway there is another party on the next table.

Middle aged blokes not too dissimilar to us.

And they seem to be as drunk as we are.

We order our food and some drinks and are soon munching on popadoms.

But the Guys on the next table are a bit loud and are starting to be obnoxious.

They are abusing the staff. Not overmuch to their faces but very much so behind their backs.

And its nothing to do with the quality of the food or ambience or service.

Its straight on anti islamic crap.

"Oi Mo - more lager here mate. Step on it and theres a virgin in it for ya"

Bombing jokes get rolled out as well.

Anyway at some point during this one of our party gets up,walks over and tells these muppets that they are out of line and that we dont want to hear it anymore.

Obviously we are expecting a ruck so everyone is now standing up.

But it doesnt happen.

These gobshites seem a bit embarrassed and look at the table muttering:

"Yeah,yeah, no problem mate, sorry if we have upset ya. Just banter innit."

And that was the end of it. They behaved themselves for the rest of the time they were in there.

They paid and left before us. No idea who they were or even where they were from. I am guessing that they all had employers who would frown on employees getting involved in fights over racist abuse.

Now here is the question.

Did we stifle their right to "free speech" ?

What would you have done ?

Personally, I'd have told you to mind your own business. When I'm tipping a few with my close buddies we have two rules to joke telling, nothing is sacred and everyone gets it in the end. Pretty sad when the pc police follow you to the bar.

Well, there's a BIG difference between jokes AMONG friends, and jokes which spill over and start insulting people, especially when you're insulting the people serving you. That's disrespectful as fuck. If you came to me and did that, you'd be out, and I've said my mind to a few customers in my time.

 

[rightwinger]

A restaurant open at midnight is looking to serve drunks

You shouldn't be surprised at drunk behavior. Now, if you confront a bunch of drunks about their behavior several things could happen. They stop their behavior or they can start a fight. In this case, they stopped

By the way...the virgin line was funny

 

[Skull Pilot]

I look at it as they exercised their right to free speech, and your response was your right to free speech in commenting about their behavior.

They shut it down voluntarily. If you had beat the crap out of them to stop their loudmouth banter, then it would have been different.

Does free speech extend to insulting people?

Just because you can do something legally and not get locked up for it, doesn't mean it's your RIGHT to do so.

Of course it does.

It's not illegal to insult someone

 

[Skull Pilot]

A restaurant open at midnight is looking to serve drunks

You shouldn't be surprised at drunk behavior. Now, if you confront a bunch of drunks about their behavior several things could happen. They stop their behavior or they can start a fight. In this case, they stopped

By the way...the virgin line was funny

I always said nothing good happens after midnight

 

[baileyn45]

A restaurant open at midnight is looking to serve drunks

You shouldn't be surprised at drunk behavior. Now, if you confront a bunch of drunks about their behavior several things could happen. They stop their behavior or they can start a fight. In this case, they stopped

By the way...the virgin line was funny

I always said nothing good happens after midnight

I don't know about that. You haven't seen my wife. As Eric Clapton said "after midnight we gonna let all hang out".

 

[usmbguest5318]

Did we stifle their right to "free speech" ?

In the UK, I don't know. In the U.S., definitely not because the right of free speech as provided for in the Constitution pertains to what the government can do to curtail people's speech. Insofar as you and your group were not government officials acting in the capacity of such, you were not stifling any right the other fellows have.