Ending UNRWA and Advancing Peace

[abu afak]

I'm always willing to help out the knuckleheads.


The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 - 1945?1952 - Milestones - Office of the Historian

The United Nations resolution sparked conflict between Jewish and Arab groups within Palestine. Fighting began with attacks by irregular bands of Palestinian Arabs attached to local units of the Arab Liberation Army composed of volunteers from Palestine and neighboring Arab countries. These groups launched their attacks against Jewish cities, settlements, and armed forces. The Jewish forces were composed of the Haganah, the underground militia of the Jewish community in Palestine, and two small irregular groups, the Irgun, and LEHI. The goal of the Arabs was initially to block the Partition Resolution and to prevent the establishment of the Jewish state. The Jews, on the other hand, hoped to gain control over the territory allotted to them under the Partition Plan.

That's true to, but it doesn't negate what I said.

The problem was, Zionists didn't stop at the territory allotted to them. They went after territory that wasn't allotted to them and that started a war.

Actually Hollie just Refuted your claim of who started the War.. so brillo merely repeated the falsEhood again.

 

[Billo_Really]

Actually Hollie just Refuted your claim of who started the War.. so brillo merely repeated the falsEhood again.

No she didn't.

Fighting began when Zionists didn't respect the inalienable rights of indigenous arabs.

 

[Indeependent]

Actually Hollie just Refuted your claim of who started the War.. so brillo merely repeated the falsEhood again.

No she didn't.

Fighting began when Zionists didn't respect the inalienable rights of indigenous arabs.

How many Muslims, Christians and Jews were living in Palestine before 1948? - Yahoo Answers

In 1854, according to a report in the New York Tribune, Jews constituted two-thirds of the population of that holy city. (The source: A journalist on assignment in the Middle East that year for the Tribune. His name was Karl Marx -- yes, that Karl Marx.)

In 1867, Mark Twain took a tour of Palestine. This is how he described that land: "A desolate country whose soil is rich enough but is given over wholly to weeds. A silent, mournful expanse. We never saw a human."

In 1882, official Ottoman Turk census figures showed that, in the entire Land of Israel, there were only 141 000 Muslims, both Arab and non-Arab.

A travel guide to Palestine and Syria was published in 1906 by Karl Baedeker; The book estimated the total population of Jerusalem at 60,000, of whom 7,000 were Muslims, 13,000 were Christians and 40,000 were Jews.

As the Jews came and drained the swamps and made the deserts bloom, Arabs followed. They came for jobs, for prosperity, for freedom. And, they came in large numbers.

In 1922, with what was widely acknowledged as the illegal separation of Transjordan, the Jews were forbidden to settle on almost 77% of Palestine, while Arab settlement went unrestricted and actually encouraged by British mandatory authority.

Prior to the Second World War, Mojli Amin, a member of the Arab Defense Committee for Palestine, proposed the idea "that all the Arabs of Palestine will leave and be divided up amongst the neighboring Arab countries. In exchange for this, all the Jews living in Arab countries will leave and come to Palestine."

Did you know that Saudi Arabia was not created until 1913, Lebanon until 1920? Iraq did not exist as a nation until 1932, Syria until 1941; the borders of Jordan were established in 1946, and Kuwait in 1961. Any of these nations that would say Israel is only a recent arrival would have to deny their own rights as recent arrivals as well. They did not exist as countries. They were all under the control of the Turks. Over 80% of the original British Mandate land was given to Arabs, without population transfer of Arabs from the land designated for Jews.

In 1947, the Jewish state huddled on 18% of the original British Mandate land. The Jews accepted it gratefully. The Arabs rejected it with a vengeance and seven Arab states immediately declared war against Israel.

In 1948, the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Most of them left in fear of being killed by their own Arab brothers as traitors.

Some 850,000 Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab countries, due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is claimed to be around 630,000 (but where did they get this number?). Based on population census, the estimated number of Arabs who left Israel was around 460,000. They were ordered to leave by Arab leaders at the time.

From 1948 till 1967 Arabs made no attempt to create a Palestinian state. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated, 58 synagogues in Jerusalem were destroyed, and the Jews and Christians were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

Arabs began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1964 only, on the initiative of Egyptian-born Yasser Arafat. The idea became popular Arab propaganda tool after Israel re-captured Judea, Samaria and Gaza in the defensive Six-Day War of 1967,

Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, Arab-Palestinians are the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel.

Arab refugees INTENTIONALLY were not absorbed or integrated by the rich Arab oil states that control 99.9 percent of the Middle East landmass. They are kept as virtual prisoners by the Arab power brokers with misplaced hatred for Jews and Western democracy.

There is only one Jewish state. There are 60 Muslim countries, including 22 Arab nations.

The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel.

Pan-Arabism, or the doctrine of Muslim Caliphate, declares that all land that used to belong to Muslims must be returned to them. Thus, Spain, for example, must eventually be re-conquered.

.
.
.
But of course...LIES!!! ALL LIES!!!! KILL THE JEWS!!!!

 

[Billo_Really]

How many Muslims, Christians and Jews were living in Palestine before 1948? - Yahoo Answers

In 1854, according to a report in the New York Tribune, Jews constituted two-thirds of the population of that holy city. (The source: A journalist on assignment in the Middle East that year for the Tribune. His name was Karl Marx -- yes, that Karl Marx.)

In 1867, Mark Twain took a tour of Palestine. This is how he described that land: "A desolate country whose soil is rich enough but is given over wholly to weeds. A silent, mournful expanse. We never saw a human."

In 1882, official Ottoman Turk census figures showed that, in the entire Land of Israel, there were only 141 000 Muslims, both Arab and non-Arab.

A travel guide to Palestine and Syria was published in 1906 by Karl Baedeker; The book estimated the total population of Jerusalem at 60,000, of whom 7,000 were Muslims, 13,000 were Christians and 40,000 were Jews.

As the Jews came and drained the swamps and made the deserts bloom, Arabs followed. They came for jobs, for prosperity, for freedom. And, they came in large numbers.

In 1922, with what was widely acknowledged as the illegal separation of Transjordan, the Jews were forbidden to settle on almost 77% of Palestine, while Arab settlement went unrestricted and actually encouraged by British mandatory authority.

According to Lord Balfour in 1919, there were 700,000 arabs living in Palestine.

In a memorandum to Lord Curzon on 11 August 1919, Balfour candidly wrote:

"The four Great Powers are committed to zionism. And zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long traditions, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desires and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land."​

And in 1920, Lord Curzon had this to say...

Here is a country with 580,000 Arabs and 30,000 or is it 60,000 Jews (by no means all Zionists).

Here's the official migration records up to 1929 and it clearly shows the ones migrating into the area, were Zionists, not arabs.



It also shows that in 1929, jews only made up 17% of the population.

Prior to the Second World War, Mojli Amin, a member of the Arab Defense Committee for Palestine, proposed the idea "that all the Arabs of Palestine will leave and be divided up amongst the neighboring Arab countries. In exchange for this, all the Jews living in Arab countries will leave and come to Palestine."

He can say whatever he wants.

People just don't get up and leave a home they've been living in for generations.

Did you know that Saudi Arabia was not created until 1913, Lebanon until 1920? Iraq did not exist as a nation until 1932, Syria until 1941; the borders of Jordan were established in 1946, and Kuwait in 1961. Any of these nations that would say Israel is only a recent arrival would have to deny their own rights as recent arrivals as well. They did not exist as countries. They were all under the control of the Turks. Over 80% of the original British Mandate land was given to Arabs, without population transfer of Arabs from the land designated for Jews.

Here's Jewish immigration in the 30's, where their numbers rose to 30% of the population.

Compared to the 100,000 in the 1920s, Palestine received about 232,000 legal immigrants in the 1930s. The Jewish population in 1939 numbered over 445,000 out of a total of about 1,500,000 - nearly 30 per cent compared to the less than 10 per cent 20 years before.

So the Tribune, Mark Twain and the Turk census reports, were a little off.

In 1947, the Jewish state huddled on 18% of the original British Mandate land. The Jews accepted it gratefully. The Arabs rejected it with a vengeance and seven Arab states immediately declared war against Israel.

Anyone would reject it. It wasn't a fair offer in the first place.

In 1948, the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Most of them left in fear of being killed by their own Arab brothers as traitors.

That's bullshit! Why would arab leaders ask them to leave land they were going in to protect from Zionist militia groups? That doesn't make any sense.

Some 850,000 Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab countries, due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

And over 750,000 arabs, were forced to leave this land due to jewish terrorist groups like Irgun.

The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is claimed to be around 630,000 (but where did they get this number?). Based on population census, the estimated number of Arabs who left Israel was around 460,000. They were ordered to leave by Arab leaders at the time.

This is bullshit! People don't leave an area they've been living in for over 2000 years, just because someone asked them to. That's ridiculous!

From 1948 till 1967 Arabs made no attempt to create a Palestinian state. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated, 58 synagogues in Jerusalem were destroyed, and the Jews and Christians were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

Historian Arnold Toynbee summed up the 30 year migration this way...

Arnold J. Toynbee who, before becoming recognized as an eminent world historian had dealt directly with the Palestine Mandate in the British Foreign Office, wrote in 1968:

"All through those 30 years, Britain (admitted) into Palestine, year by year, a quota of Jewish immigrants that varied according to the strength of the respective pressures of the Arabs and Jews at the time. These immigrants could not have come in if they had not been shielded by a British chevaux-de-frise. If Palestine had remained under Ottoman Turkish rule, or if it had become an independent Arab state in 1918, Jewish immigrants would never have been admitted into Palestine in large enough numbers to enable them to overwhelm the Palestinian Arabs in this Arab people's own country. The reason why the State of Israel exists today and why today 1,500,000 Palestinian Arabs are refugees is that, for 30 years, Jewish immigration was imposed on the Palestinian Arabs by British military power until the immigrants were sufficiently numerous and sufficiently well-armed to be able to fend for themselves with tanks and planes of their own. The tragedy in Palestine is not just a local one; it is a tragedy for the world, because it is an injustice that is a menace to the world's peace."​

There were indigenous jews in that area, but they got along with their arab neighbors.

Arabs began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1964 only, on the initiative of Egyptian-born Yasser Arafat. The idea became popular Arab propaganda tool after Israel re-captured Judea, Samaria and Gaza in the defensive Six-Day War of 1967,

Doesn't matter what name you call them, there were people living there when jews migrated into the area and they have rights to.

Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, Arab-Palestinians are the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel.

Arab refugees INTENTIONALLY were not absorbed or integrated by the rich Arab oil states that control 99.9 percent of the Middle East landmass. They are kept as virtual prisoners by the Arab power brokers with misplaced hatred for Jews and Western democracy.

There's no reason to be absorbed anywhere.

This is their home.

There is only one Jewish state. There are 60 Muslim countries, including 22 Arab nations.

And the Pals deserve their's to.

The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel.

So what! Doesn't matter what they say. They don't have the military to make it happen. However, I'm sure their revise that Charter after Israel ends the occupation and blockade. Until that happens, there's no reason to.

Pan-Arabism, or the doctrine of Muslim Caliphate, declares that all land that used to belong to Muslims must be returned to them. Thus, Spain, for example, must eventually be re-conquered.

And Zionists declared that the land owned by jews in that area, could only be worked on by jewish labor only.

But of course...LIES!!! ALL LIES!!!! KILL THE JEWS!!!!

Said the 15 year old.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I'm always willing to help out the knuckleheads.


The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 - 1945?1952 - Milestones - Office of the Historian

The United Nations resolution sparked conflict between Jewish and Arab groups within Palestine. Fighting began with attacks by irregular bands of Palestinian Arabs attached to local units of the Arab Liberation Army composed of volunteers from Palestine and neighboring Arab countries. These groups launched their attacks against Jewish cities, settlements, and armed forces. The Jewish forces were composed of the Haganah, the underground militia of the Jewish community in Palestine, and two small irregular groups, the Irgun, and LEHI. The goal of the Arabs was initially to block the Partition Resolution and to prevent the establishment of the Jewish state. The Jews, on the other hand, hoped to gain control over the territory allotted to them under the Partition Plan.

That's true to, but it doesn't negate what I said.

The problem was, Zionists didn't stop at the territory allotted to them. They went after territory that wasn't allotted to them and that started a war.

Actually Hollie just Refuted your claim of who started the War.. so brillo merely repeated the falsEhood again.

No she didn't. 1948 was 25-30 years into the war.

 

[abu afak]

That's true to, but it doesn't negate what I said.

The problem was, Zionists didn't stop at the territory allotted to them. They went after territory that wasn't allotted to them and that started a war.

Actually Hollie just Refuted your claim of who started the War.. so brillo merely repeated the falsEhood again.

No she didn't. 1948 was 25-30 years into the war.

Yes, you were refuted Tinhead.
Because You WERE Talking about 1948 and "The problem was, Zionists didn't stop at the territory allotted to them."
There was No allotment "25-30 years" earlier.
You're a Dishonest Clown who cannot do anything but post youtubes or try one-line Disingenuity.
`

 

[P F Tinmore]

Actually Hollie just Refuted your claim of who started the War.. so brillo merely repeated the falsEhood again.

No she didn't. 1948 was 25-30 years into the war.

Yes, you were refuted Tinhead.
Because You WERE Talking about 1948 and "The problem was, Zionists didn't stop at the territory allotted to them."
There was No allotment "25-30 years" earlier.
You're a Dishonest Clown who cannot do anything but post youtubes or try one-line Disingenuity.
`

Who started the war in 1948?

Nobody.

The war started before then.

 

[aris2chat]

Arabs had been rioting and attacking jews since '20

No she didn't. 1948 was 25-30 years into the war.

Yes, you were refuted Tinhead.
Because You WERE Talking about 1948 and "The problem was, Zionists didn't stop at the territory allotted to them."
There was No allotment "25-30 years" earlier.
You're a Dishonest Clown who cannot do anything but post youtubes or try one-line Disingenuity.
`

Who started the war in 1948?

Nobody.

The war started before then.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Arabs had been rioting and attacking jews since '20

Yes, you were refuted Tinhead.
Because You WERE Talking about 1948 and "The problem was, Zionists didn't stop at the territory allotted to them."
There was No allotment "25-30 years" earlier.
You're a Dishonest Clown who cannot do anything but post youtubes or try one-line Disingenuity.
`

Who started the war in 1948?

Nobody.

The war started before then.

Why not before then?

 

[aris2chat]

Mohammad Amin al-Husayni took on more preaching and authority from his brother, and was appointed by the mandate after Kamil's death. Their father was the first to hold the office.

Arabs had been rioting and attacking jews since '20

Who started the war in 1948?

Nobody.

The war started before then.

Why not before then?

 

[abu afak]

Arabs had been rioting and attacking jews since '20

Who started the war in 1948?

Nobody.

The war started before then.

Why not before then?

Actually Arabs were attacking Jews in the Holy Land at least since the 1830s.
Documentation of course available.
`

 

[Phoenall]

Let those people go back home.

Problem solved.

Could the Islamic nations support them if they did ?

 

[Phoenall]

Let those people go back home.

Problem solved.

There is no chance that Syria, Jordan, Egypt, etc., are going to accept the financial burden of repatriation for the Arabs falsely labeled as "Palestinians".

The problem of Arab beggars and squatters occupying Palestine is an Arab problem but of course, they understand the dangers presented by "Palestinian' Arabs.

Do a search with "Black September" as the criteria.

I believe that most Palestinians can trace their ancestry back hundreds even thousands of years.

Do you have some statistics to back up your claim?

That is highly unlikely as even the arabs have said they are recent arrivals from other Islamic areas. But here are some links that show just how recent the arrivals are

The Smoking Gun: Arab Immigration into Palestine, 1922-1931 :: Middle East Quarterly

More on Arab immigrants, So called "Palestinians". When they started to flood Palestine as Jews changed and cultivated the vacant land :: Reader comments at Daniel Pipes

Arab- Muslim Waves of Immigration to Palestine (the Land of Israel )/ DR.Rivka Shpak Lissak | Rivka Shpak Lissak

Substantial Immigration of Arab Migrant workers into Western Palestine from 1880-1948

 

[Phoenall]

I believe that most Palestinians can trace their ancestry back hundreds even thousands of years.

Link?

You are the one claiming that they came from somewhere else. Prove it.

Not that it matters. they were there when the country was defined in 1922. So they go back to the beginning.

Only if the country of Palestine was defined in 1922, if it was never defined and accepted internationally then their claim, and yours, is invalid.

 

[Phoenall]

You are the one claiming that they came from somewhere else. Prove it.

Not that it matters. they were there when the country was defined in 1922. So they go back to the beginning.

No link for your blustering claim, eh? I didn't there would be.

It is your claim.

Post war treaties state that anyone who normally reside in a newly created state, become citizens of that state.

So until Palestine is created they are homeless vagrants, when Palestine is created they lose their right of return. Its a lose/lose situation for the muslims

 

[Phoenall]

The UN created the Palestinian problem in 1948 and now they have to deal with the results of their action. ...

No the combined arab armies caused the problem and they turned their backs on it. Just as many Jews were displaced by the 1948 war and most ended up as Israeli citizens. This is how the rules are supposed to be followed, not like Islamic states that placed the people behind barbed wire and starved them.

 

[Phoenall]

It is your claim.

Post war treaties state that anyone who normally reside in a newly created state, become citizens of that state.

Link?

Are you thinking that people living in a defined area became citizens of someplace else?

So which country was this defined area in then, as there has never been a nation of Palestine. Many were in Syria, Egypt and Jordan at the time so why haven't they taken on that nationality ?

 

[Phoenall]

Are you thinking that people living in a defined area became citizens of someplace else?

I was anticipating that you would be unable to support your specific claim. And you were unable.

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

But no state was dissolved so your post is just bluff and bluster.

On the declaration of the state of Israel the muslims were given the option of staying and becoming full Israeli citizens, or leaving and giving up all rights to property and citizenship. This complied with international law as it applied at the time.

 

[Phoenall]

There was never a legal entity of Palestine with established borders.

Israel has never had declared borders. .....

But it has with Egypt and Jordan as they negotiated them as part of a peace plan. Those borders are now set in stone and are legally valid.

 

[Phoenall]

It seems you never read what you cut and pasted, tinny.

"In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established,"

Are you not seeing how your claim is not applicable?

No.
----------------
The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your link refers to the unilateral declaration of the state of Palestine in 1988 that has no legal existence on the world stage.

And as you link states
Since the British Mandate, the term "Palestine" has been associated with the geographical area that currently covers the State of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip
It destroys your whole argument to it being a de facto nation