Elder Rampage Shootings: Is It "Age Rage?"

[Circe]

I have no doubt there are individuals who precisely fit the pathological profile you've described. But considering how many millions of Americans are avid gun enthusiasts and collectors, what percentage of these otherwise ordinary people do you believe occupy the pathological category you've outlined? I would think the number is very small.

Have you ever tuned into what I will call the QVC of fantasy slasher-ware, where every conceivable kind of the most menacingly lethal knives and swords imaginable are hawked?

What is most surprising about the Knife Show is it's on several nights a week and has been for several years. And they push (typically wholesale) everything from samurai swords to Bowie knives, pocket-knives that flip open with a thumb-flick, fold-away straight razors, sword canes, and "specialty" items which obviously are designed with sidewalk surgery in mind. The long-term existence of this hour-long pitch assuredly means there is a substantial market for the kind of cutlery Jack The Ripper would endorse. But how often do we read or hear about knife attacks?

What I'm suggesting is the vast majority of those who are into personal weaponry, including those who harbor homicidal fantasies, are relatively harmless onanist-types, whereas the comparative few who are potentially dangerous will manage to arm themselves if and when the compulsion to act overcomes them. I don't believe possession of exotic weaponry stimulates homicidal impulses anymore than pornography inspires forcible rape. If anything it might serve as a form of release.

Oh, well, if you are going to use a word like "onanist" correctly, I have to take your ideas seriously. All right, you argument is that there has been a conspicuous market in dire knives for years, but we don' t have knife massacres, at least not very many. And you argue that the availability of pornography may lessen the incidence of rape. I agree with that --- at least for male on female rape; the argument doesn't hold for child pornography, of course. Better to soak up some of the impulses on girly pictures, yes, so to speak.

Well, it's a simple thing to track! We are very likely to see a large number of copycat gun massacres this year, since that's the trend. We should watch and see whether the guys doing it are the one-gun wonders or someone loaded down like Adam Lanza was with assault weapons and high-capacity magazines and semiautomatics plural until he could hardly walk.

Lanza and the Columbine kids were the Ninja soldiers imitators loaded with assault rifles and bombs and high-capacity magazines, the full Monty, they wanted a Big Show. On the other hand, the current issue of the New Yorker has a great article on the Amy Bishop case -- that female prof who shot six other profs in a faculty meeting (talk about living out a fantasy!!) in Alabama February 2010. She sat by the door so they couldn't get out. She shot six and then her semiautomatic jammed, it was her only gun, and she kept clicking and clicking it at her erstwhile best friend who crawled out of the room while Bishop chased her, trying to unjam her gun, and then the other woman rushed back in and they barricaded the door. She clearly meant to kill more; I'd like to know if she had enough ammo for the lot of them. She killed three outright and injured three more, she shot them all in the heads, like Lanza did, but she didn't have as good a people-killer as he had. She was a crazy; she heard voices, particularly her dead brother Seth whom she had shot years before, but her mother had covered it up.

You are saying there aren't a lot of the Ninja Commando types who go in heavily armed with dedicated people-killers and at least potentially get a much higher kill rate. I don't know; there certainly have been plenty of those lately. If Bishop had had better preparation she'd have taken out the entire biology department.

There are always going to be psychotics who want to kill, evidently. The question is, how many do they wipe out? I'm willing to watch and see this year.

I don't think collectors of things intended to hurt people are innocent, though. Men who collect lots of guns, or knives, or torture implements, or bondage implements --- there is something wrong with people who do that and I think this society seriously needs to stop pretending all that is respectable, excusable. It's not; it's weird. It's suspect; it's suspicious.

 

[PaulS1950]

The semi-automatic rifles used in the most recent mass murders are used daily by individuals in competition shooting events all over the country. They have other uses than "killing lots of people.
Collectors enjoy having lots of what they collect, be it bladed weapons or guns or stamps. The collections appreciate in value so it is generally a good investment. Two years ago you could buy an AR-15 for less than $1000 and today they are selling for upwards of $2500. That would have been a great investment. I bought two semi-automatic rifles more than a few years ago for $100. Those weapons are now worth a great deal more than the $50 a piece I paid.
I am not a collector though - I am a shooter. I enjoy shooting at targets, gongs, and animals in season.
The guns - any of them - are more "adult" toys and although they can be used for defense they are more often enjoyed with family and friends at the range than for anything else.

 

[Snookie]

Shooting guns a lot can give you lead poisoning. You know what happens to people with lead poison. They go out of their rabbit ass minds, lol.

 

[PaulS1950]

Shooting guns a lot doesn't give you lead poisoning unless you are shooting in an enclosed space or you are the target.

Indoor ranges have to have adequate ventilation and if you are the target then you are doing something very wrong.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I am worried that there is a trend here that is going along with the baby boom aging out. (Me, too.) Not only are there getting to be more and more people in this age with organic paranoia, but also there is a huge fashion right now for people having giant collections of guns, especially guns designed for shooting other people. And there is a lot of anger in this seriously divided land, and most of the anger is from the right, the gun-owning right.

I wondered how long before the ill-considered, knowledgeless and prejudiciously intolerant opinions would rear their ugly head.
2nd post. Excellent work.

 

[Snookie]

Shooting guns a lot doesn't give you lead poisoning unless you are shooting in an enclosed space or you are the target.

Indoor ranges have to have adequate ventilation and if you are the target then you are doing something very wrong.

Stay safe. I meant no harm. Just joking a bit.

 

[iolo]

What the vast majority of murderers have in common is not their age but the availability of guns. Everyone knows this. Our British murder rate is a quarter of yours, and it's not caused by age: if you believed your Constitution gave everyone the right to fill his house with poisons I've no doubt that would mean more deaths too.

 

[editec]

I think the country needs to take this seriously, and watch out for serious paranoia warning signs in older men ---- who own a lot of guns.

Good idea, the question is how?

Most gun queers are perfectly harmless, if not, a positive influence on their society.

 

[M14 Shooter]

What the vast majority of murderers have in common is not their age but the availability of guns.

~300,000,000 guns in the US.
~8500 murder involving guns per year.
~0.0028% of our guns are involved in a murder per year.
Everyone knows this.

 

[iolo]

What the vast majority of murderers have in common is not their age but the availability of guns.

~300,000,000 guns in the US.
~8500 murder involving guns per year.
~0.0028% of our guns are involved in a murder per year.
Everyone knows this.

Are you saying that you are just naturally more murderous than we are? I've never seen any evidence for it. No guns, scarcely any murder. It's quite simple. If you care more for guns than life, fine: your choice.

 

[M14 Shooter]

What the vast majority of murderers have in common is not their age but the availability of guns.

~300,000,000 guns in the US.
~8500 murder involving guns per year.
~0.0028% of our guns are involved in a murder per year.
Everyone knows this.

Are you saying that you are just naturally more murderous than we are?

I'm saying that the number of guns involved in murder in the US compared to the number of guns in the US statistically approaches zero.
Thus, the number of guns in the US has little to no bearing on the number of murders in the US.

 

[Snookie]

What the vast majority of murderers have in common is not their age but the availability of guns.

~300,000,000 guns in the US.
~8500 murder involving guns per year.
~0.0028% of our guns are involved in a murder per year.
Everyone knows this.

Only 8500 murdered by guns. How trivial. I feel better now, la, la, la.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Another case for killing our aged!!!!!

 

[PaulS1950]

Murder is not the only violent crime that having a gun can stop.
The UK has a signifigantly higher violent crime rate than the US simply because they have no right, nor means to defend themselves.
In the US more murders are caused by hands, feet, knives, and clubs than by guns (just like the UK). Then you have violent crime (of which murder is only a section) robbery, forced entry, rape, assault, and so on all increase without the means to defend one's self. There are thousands of instances each year where the mere presence of a firearm stops violent crime before it can be completed.
The average number of people killed in public area shootings when the police are the ones that stop the vriminal is just over 4, but when the shooting is stopped by an armed civilian the number is cut in half. If those people didn't have the ability to carry guns you could add those thousands to the violent crime rate and it would be almost as high as that of the UK.

 

[iolo]

~300,000,000 guns in the US.
~8500 murder involving guns per year.
~0.0028% of our guns are involved in a murder per year.
Everyone knows this.

Are you saying that you are just naturally more murderous than we are?

I'm saying that the number of guns involved in murder in the US compared to the number of guns in the US statistically approaches zero.
Thus, the number of guns in the US has little to no bearing on the number of murders in the US.

Of course it has - you are just playing with words. Any nutter, any angry person, any small child seems to be able to get hold of a quick means of murder. That is not the case in civilized countries, so their murder rates are vastly lower. Get rid of the guns, get rid of almost all the killing. Hard, given the number of brainwashed persons over there, but American know-how will do it!

 

[iolo]

Murder is not the only violent crime that having a gun can stop.
The UK has a signifigantly higher violent crime rate than the US simply because they have no right, nor means to defend themselves.
In the US more murders are caused by hands, feet, knives, and clubs than by guns (just like the UK). Then you have violent crime (of which murder is only a section) robbery, forced entry, rape, assault, and so on all increase without the means to defend one's self. There are thousands of instances each year where the mere presence of a firearm stops violent crime before it can be completed.
The average number of people killed in public area shootings when the police are the ones that stop the vriminal is just over 4, but when the shooting is stopped by an armed civilian the number is cut in half. If those people didn't have the ability to carry guns you could add those thousands to the violent crime rate and it would be almost as high as that of the UK.

Crime rates are very difficult to compare. As far as I know, it is nonsense to say we have a higher crime rate - but Fox News and the like will manufacture lies to the gunmerchants' order, obviously. Equally obviously more murders are done without guns here, because we don't let cowboys have 'em - BUT WE HAVE HUGELY FEWER MURDERS. Have some sense!

 

[M14 Shooter]

Are you saying that you are just naturally more murderous than we are?

I'm saying that the number of guns involved in murder in the US compared to the number of guns in the US statistically approaches zero.
Thus, the number of guns in the US has little to no bearing on the number of murders in the US.

Of course it has - you are just playing with words.

No, I am stating fact.

If the number of guns involved in murder in the US compared to the number of guns in the US statistically approaches zero - as it does - then it is impossible to argue that the number of guns in the US has any bearing on the number of murders in the US.

No amount of rhetoric can change that fact.

 

[PaulS1950]

The fact is that many more murders are committed without guns than with guns. Add to that the number of times each year that guns, in the hands of lawful citizens, actually prevent violent crimes and murders and you can understand why it is ludicrous to disarm - or restrict the arms - of law abiding citizens.

 

[beagle9]

Could it be that your real fear is, is that you are now thinking and fearing about having a government that may be offending these people very badly now, and so instead of you asking your government what can they do better to make this nation a more peaceful and great nation for all while going into the future, you think only about the elderly whom have guns?

How about asking the government, why do they have a more aggressive stance in the changing of policy that affects this group in such a bad way now, and also sadly in the most adverse way in some or in many cases (or) why is the government being found absent within it's null and void economic plans and/or policies, in which affects the future of these groups big time in many ways, (or) why are they having discussions in which targets new policies towards this group and/or it's ideals as American legal gun owners and etc. in which is being found or seen as oppressive now in regards to this age group or groups in concerning their very rights as law abiding Americans, and for which is leaving them hanging in the balance or angered afterwards (or) why is the government blaming this group for things in which they are not guilty of or has had nothing to do with ( that is now being found in those tragic massacres) in which the age group being mentioned has had no links to as legal gun owners or involvement in, but yet they are being tied into them anyways ?

So you think that it's just a phenomenon that is occurring among these age groups involving their age maybe /medical conditions in life maybe, so they need to be tested somehow now ?

Many things could also be part of it for sure when finally act out (who knows really), but it's always a mixture of things in which causes the whole problem eventually........ Otherwise you might think that the government has no role in this, and has no links to these things in which I mentioned of them, when in fact I think these things I mentioned of the government are involved sometimes more than people think or can be in the final lighting of the fuse possibly in some cases or instances as proven in the past in some cases or instances.

Many factors are always as well involved (government being one of them also), in which serves as a volatile cocktail in the end, but what is the ultimate thing that finally over whelms them in life, and causes them to pull the trigger finally is what you are after correct ? Do you think that it's cultural swings or government policy changes that come to fast maybe, therefore leaving many behind to quickly, and then desperate afterwards (especially this group whom you say is heavily armed), and so in your opinion this makes for a very bad situation in America, and is tied into these latest age affiliated killings or rampages ?

So now it's age + cultural change + government inaction or actions + guns, equals killings by old people who are heavily armed as some sort of a left over from their youth? Are they living in an America they no longer recognize, and are now being quickly out casted from? I will almost betcha that this rationale in thinking or studying you have going on here, is the exact rational, studying and thinking that eventually led Hitler and his Nazi's to go after the Jews, and to exterminate them, otherwise by all this studying of a class or sector of people, whom might not be conforming well to the new society is the new fear or is being found in the new ways of thinking in that new society in which is coming, and that is causing this fear of the old and the separation from, so it's what next eliminate them maybe ? Do we do that in America ?

Ok so is this just another attempt at making a case to ban guns again. except this time among certain age groups for whom the government may be angering and setting off these days maybe is your opinion ? Is the government living in fear because of it's policies or policy changes now, and this is but a government probe into the mindsets of the population that are found amongst these age groups now ? Do you realize how high tech Germany was during world war two and before the war? Are we heading down the same paths that Germany under Hitler went down, where as the citizens must be targeted or looked closely at as possible threats to the government, but why is our government heading down this road that Hitler once traveled? Think about it all, and then sit back and drink you some good old ice tea afterwards....

This is what we and you are all now wondering of course with the situations we are seeing in America today. Yes this is a good article as is written, just as long as the bias stereo typing stays to a minimum, and the real issues and answers be explored truthfully and decently without further provocation being involved, because there is no reason for people to be living in fear of their government or vice versa if so be the case these days in America, and if anything all should be feeling a sigh of relief due to the American government in life, and not the other way around. It's up to the government to make these things better, so we shall see what they do next, and hopefully it will reflect the will of the law abiding and hardworking citizens in this nation, and not the will of a government become dictator for a better America, yet found only in it's own opinion of now, and not that of the people as it should be.

 

[beagle9]

Well, I suggest you watch me if you are affraid of old people.
I am approaching that age group but then I don't hate anyone or group and I am not a criminal and the only area that I have any fanaticism is protection of our rights - so I am more likely to defend you than go on a rage rampage and kill people.

You can't focus on one aspect of a person and make the connection from that to a crime they commit. Well, you can but it doesn't address the cause of the crime and you place a stigmatism on others who share that one aspect but have little chance of committing the same or similar crimes.

After someone commits a crime it is easier to look at the traits they have exhibited, their hatreds, and fears and piece it all together with a trigger that set them off but it doesn't work the other way because most of us have a moral "shut-down" switch that keeps us from doing the unspeakable. Two people with identical hatreds and fears will respond differently to the the same circumstances based on a whole set of other governing forces within our personalities. People are just too complex to be able to reliably predict the manner in which they will respond in any set of circumstances.

This is a good post, and I appreciate your addressing the issue.

I am worried that there is a trend here that is going along with the baby boom aging out. (Me, too.) Not only are there getting to be more and more people in this age with organic paranoia, but also there is a huge fashion right now for people having giant collections of guns, especially guns designed for shooting other people. And there is a lot of anger in this seriously divided land, and most of the anger is from the right, the gun-owning right.

I'm worried about the combination. Age rage paranoia plus LOTS of guns plus generalized anger. We are starting to see a lot of old guys going on rampages, and you have to admit, that was not expected! That's just weird.

States are very aware that there is a problem with older people driving and we are tested more, repeatedly, for that reason. I am wondering if there is going to be a problem perceived with older men having lots of guns. I know of TWO older men whose families did sort of .....take and sell off their guns. I know one person who quite simply stole her mother's carkeys when her mother kept on driving when she said she wouldn't (she had had three accidents within six weeks --- it was clear she was likely to kill someone).

I wouldn't bring this up if there weren't this strange problem developing with older men in their 60s and up going on sudden shooting rampages, as we have seen lately.

Should guns properly be confiscated from older men who are showing signs of anger and paranoia and have a lot of guns?

Adolph Hitler would say yes to his officers who would be studying this phenomena under his order, in which is that maybe in which you speak of here, and is placed in a way in which you seem to think is growing & growing among Americans who are up in age, and for whom you might think do remember or think still about what they may see as being to swift of a change to America in as far as this government is operating or the culture is heading...