Education a right ?

[Mr.Fitnah]

It is a right in Washington state!
I guess it is all Washington State's duty to fund education.

Wash. judge rules state failing constitutional duty to fully fund basic education
A judge has ruled that the state of Washington is not fulfilling its constitutional duty to fully pay for basic public education.


Thursday’s decision by King County Superior Court Judge John Erlick comes after nearly two months of testimony last fall in the lawsuit brought by a coalition of school districts, parents, teachers and community leaders. They said the state was failing its constitutional duty. The state argued it was fully funding education.

You cannot force someone to be educated.Education is a privilege and a personal responsibility, The teachers can only do so much, it is the student and the parents job to take the fruit.

 

[Bill O'Olberman]

it is the student and the parents job to take the fruit

And the oppurtunity to do such should be indiscriminately and equally provided for every child in this country.

 

[Luissa]

It is a right in Washington state!
I guess it is all Washington State's duty to fund education.

Wash. judge rules state failing constitutional duty to fully fund basic education
A judge has ruled that the state of Washington is not fulfilling its constitutional duty to fully pay for basic public education.


Thursday’s decision by King County Superior Court Judge John Erlick comes after nearly two months of testimony last fall in the lawsuit brought by a coalition of school districts, parents, teachers and community leaders. They said the state was failing its constitutional duty. The state argued it was fully funding education.

You cannot force someone to be educated.Education is a privilege and a personal responsibility, The teachers can only do so much, it is the student and the parents job to take the fruit.

If it is right, doesn't mean you are forcing anyone to be educated.
And I believe here you have to be enrolled in some sort of education program until you are 15, after that I am not sure what happens.

 

[antagon]

I fully believe this is 3 separate arguments

Differing education for minors and adults
Whether right to education is covered under right to pursue happiness
And whether right to the education of minors should be in the nation's constitution or still left up to the individual states (and if it should be a right in your state)

the issue could be seen in the same light for each argument: educating oneself is an unalienable right. it is a benefit to living in a modern country like the US that the government goes out of its way at the local to federal level to see that schools and libraries, etc. are positioned to assist, often at no direct cost.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

It is a right in Washington state!
I guess it is all Washington State's duty to fund education.

Wash. judge rules state failing constitutional duty to fully fund basic education
A judge has ruled that the state of Washington is not fulfilling its constitutional duty to fully pay for basic public education.


Thursday’s decision by King County Superior Court Judge John Erlick comes after nearly two months of testimony last fall in the lawsuit brought by a coalition of school districts, parents, teachers and community leaders. They said the state was failing its constitutional duty. The state argued it was fully funding education.

You cannot force someone to be educated.Education is a privilege and a personal responsibility, The teachers can only do so much, it is the student and the parents job to take the fruit.

If it is right, doesn't mean you are forcing anyone to be educated.
And I believe here you have to be enrolled in some sort of education program until you are 15, after that I am not sure what happens.

Well ,if it is a right, you are educated.
Are you educated if you just sit there for 15 years Luissa?

 

[Jurginvoncelle]

The idea of education being a right, can not be a fact.
It is a law, none the less, that you must ATTEND (if under a certain age).
No one can force you to become educated. Public schooling is paid for with public taxes, so one could argue that taxation without appropriation would be the only thing at play in this sandbox. (that common good stuff is Communism).

The path to our future depends upon our children. Whether we decide to give them proper education for the new needs of the global economy remains to be seen. If they don’t finish high school then what about collage? No new Dr’s, chemists, engineers, architects, etc. These all have to be imported because we produce none.

No it’s not an inalienable right but the failure of our children, is the failure of our nation.

 

[random3434]

Still waiting to hear how you're going to "fix" education Mr. F!

Or are you just going to 'sit there?'

 

[Paulie]

The idea of education being a right, can not be a fact.
It is a law, none the less, that you must ATTEND (if under a certain age).
No one can force you to become educated. Public schooling is paid for with public taxes, so one could argue that taxation without appropriation would be the only thing at play in this sandbox. (that common good stuff is Communism).

The path to our future depends upon our children. Whether we decide to give them proper education for the new needs of the global economy remains to be seen. If they don’t finish high school then what about collage? No new Dr’s, chemists, engineers, architects, etc. These all have to be imported because we produce none.

No it’s not an inalienable right but the failure of our children, is the failure of our nation.

The grammar and syntax errors in this post are quite ironic in the face of its intended purpose.

 

[boedicca]

Here's the problem with calling things like Education and Health Care "Rights":

The concept of rights embedded in our founding documents is one of "negative rights" - essentially the right to be left alone. They are the natural rights of an individual that preexist and are independent of the form of government. We are born with them.

Education and Health Care are things we acquire with some effort, i.e., services we earn. Calling them rights confuses them with a natural condition. Instead of a student having to study, he has a right to get a "diploma" certifying something that is often just social promotion. The purpose of education, to acquire skills and knowledge has been replaced with something that is owed regardless of merit. To call it a "right" to an education is a farce.

(The same thing can be said for Health Care - which has been warped into a right to be healthy, regardless of the lifestyle own has lived. But that is a discussion for another thread.)

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Still waiting to hear how you're going to "fix" education Mr. F!

Or are you just going to 'sit there?'

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2070056-post43.html
Sorry if that was not sufficient.
Go back to an early 1880 curriculum for the first 8 years
teach the basics .
Real agriculture and ecology if you have to. On real farms .
Math ,science ,history ,music ,military history .
Then you narrow it down by aptitude .
Teach to the student based on personal history .
Not how bad America sucks.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Sometimes it seems like education is trying to keep up with culture and consumerism.
In that case the lines have been blurred.
It is the parents job to protect children from that as well as the voting public.
it is wrong to turn the class room into a strip mall of pop culture.

 

[Samson]

Still waiting to hear how you're going to "fix" education Mr. F!

Or are you just going to 'sit there?'

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2070056-post43.html
Sorry if that was not sufficient.
Go back to an early 1880 curriculum for the first 8 years
teach the basics .
Real agriculture and ecology if you have to. On real farms .
Math ,science ,history ,music ,military history .
Then you narrow it down by aptitude .
Teach to the student based on personal history .
Not how bad America sucks.

For one I would do away with the DOE and its insane text book policies.

Putting a bone in your nose is not the same as putting a man on the moon.

Teach real history and math and science ,not culture and dogma.
Culture is based of poverty of resources and ideas, Not opertunity

.

Do you REALLY think anyone believes that "putting a bone in your nose" IS the same as putting a man on the moon?

My solution is to decrease the age for compusory education to 14, simultaneously lower the legal full time hiring age to 14, and require all "high" schools teach only vocational studies.

Anyone wishing to atted college could be admitted at age 14, based on their academic achievements through grade 8. Degree plans would obviously need to be expanded, and most graduate degrees would be attainable only after 7 years. Payment would be through the same methods that are currently in place.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Still waiting to hear how you're going to "fix" education Mr. F!

Or are you just going to 'sit there?'

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2070056-post43.html
Sorry if that was not sufficient.
Go back to an early 1880 curriculum for the first 8 years
teach the basics .
Real agriculture and ecology if you have to. On real farms .
Math ,science ,history ,music ,military history .
Then you narrow it down by aptitude .
Teach to the student based on personal history .
Not how bad America sucks.

For one I would do away with the DOE and its insane text book policies.

Putting a bone in your nose is not the same as putting a man on the moon.

Teach real history and math and science ,not culture and dogma.
Culture is based of poverty of resources and ideas, Not opertunity

.

Do you REALLY think anyone believes that "putting a bone in your nose" IS the same as putting a man on the moon?

My solution is to decrease the age for compusory education to 14, simultaneously lower the legal full time hiring age to 14, and require all "high" schools teach only vocational studies.

Anyone wishing to atted college could be admitted at age 14, based on their academic achievements through grade 8. Degree plans would obviously need to be expanded, and most graduate degrees would be attainable only after 7 years. Payment would be through the same methods that are currently in place.

Really?
For some that is a reasonable rational option.
Does college start at 15 ?
Do we clog up college math with trig?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Do you REALLY think anyone believes that "putting a bone in your nose" IS the same as putting a man on the moon?

Yeah, just look outside, people are saving up money to follow in suit.

 

[Bezukhov]

No one can claim a right if excercising that right imposes an obligation on someone else.

 

[chanel]

Isn't that the way its done in Europe? The US has the bizarre idea that all students are potential college candidates. They are not. I like Samsons idea.

 

[boedicca]

Do you REALLY think anyone believes that "putting a bone in your nose" IS the same as putting a man on the moon?

Bones in the nose are So Last Week. You gotta keep up with the new style.

 

[Samson]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2070056-post43.html
Sorry if that was not sufficient.
Go back to an early 1880 curriculum for the first 8 years
teach the basics .
Real agriculture and ecology if you have to. On real farms .
Math ,science ,history ,music ,military history .
Then you narrow it down by aptitude .
Teach to the student based on personal history .
Not how bad America sucks.

For one I would do away with the DOE and its insane text book policies.

Putting a bone in your nose is not the same as putting a man on the moon.

Teach real history and math and science ,not culture and dogma.
Culture is based of poverty of resources and ideas, Not opertunity

.

Do you REALLY think anyone believes that "putting a bone in your nose" IS the same as putting a man on the moon?

My solution is to decrease the age for compusory education to 14, simultaneously lower the legal full time hiring age to 14, and require all "high" schools teach only vocational studies.

Anyone wishing to atted college could be admitted at age 14, based on their academic achievements through grade 8. Degree plans would obviously need to be expanded, and most graduate degrees would be attainable only after 7 years. Payment would be through the same methods that are currently in place.

Really?
For some that is a reasonable rational option.
Does college start at 15 ?
Do we clog up college math with trig?

College would begin any time after students complete compulsory education, just like it does now. The difference would be, after the 8th grade, people wouldn't be warehoused against their will in institutions that were never designed for the absurd purpose of teaching courses like Trigonometry.

I'm not sure what "Clog Up College Math with Trig" means. Most colleges already teach Algebra and Trig.

 

[The Rabbi]

No one can claim a right if excercising that right imposes an obligation on someone else.

More libertarian malarkey. I guess there is no right to trial by jury of one's peers then.

 

[The Rabbi]

Still waiting to hear how you're going to "fix" education Mr. F!

Or are you just going to 'sit there?'

We could start by dismantling public education, taking all the heads of teachers' unions and machine gunning them.
It's a start.