Each according to his ability, to each according to his need

[sangha]

Okay, then you're a little confused about what I'm saying.

Please re-read the fact that I am MOCKING the fact that socialists believe government is God.

As for my Biblical understanding, it may be a little rusty in places but it's far better than most Christians. I've studied it with a concordance as well as own a parallel study Bible with and own at least 6 different translations, an encyclopedias, scholarly works on certain subjects in scripture as well. I've been a member of a church's deliverance ministry as well. So please be careful on your assumption on what I know or don't know and also know very well about people playing 'salad bar' with the scriptures.

And I am mocking that fact that christians (like you) are hypocrits for not believing that the govt gets its' authority from God.

And despite your claims of Biblical knowledge, you obviously are either:

a) ignorant that the Bible says the govt gets its' authority from God
OR
b) a lying hypocrit who knows what God said, but who ignores it because it's inconvenient to do what God wants you to do

 

[Big Fitz]

Okay, then you're a little confused about what I'm saying.

Please re-read the fact that I am MOCKING the fact that socialists believe government is God.

As for my Biblical understanding, it may be a little rusty in places but it's far better than most Christians. I've studied it with a concordance as well as own a parallel study Bible with and own at least 6 different translations, an encyclopedias, scholarly works on certain subjects in scripture as well. I've been a member of a church's deliverance ministry as well. So please be careful on your assumption on what I know or don't know and also know very well about people playing 'salad bar' with the scriptures.

And I am mocking that fact that christians (like you) are hypocrits for not believing that the govt gets its' authority from God.

And despite your claims of Biblical knowledge, you obviously are either:

a) ignorant that the Bible says the govt gets its' authority from God
OR
b) a lying hypocrit who knows what God said, but who ignores it because it's inconvenient to do what God wants you to do

Oh so now you're trying to twist the fact that since God is sovereign that those who have been appointed to government have divine right and therefore speak with the authority of God? Sorry bucko. If that's the case, Hitler spoke with the authority of God and God was trying to exterminate His Chosen People.

Or are you going to twist that too?

I am quite familiar that God allows and or ordains every one their appointed place in his creation, but we are all given to free will and can stray from God's desired path for us. God has foreknowledge of every decision we will make but that doesn't mean He makes it for us.

What I find revolting is the fact that you seem to be saying that God is a socialist and that taxation is Godly.

 

[daveman]

The Government's Prayer

Our Government in D.C.,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy nanny state come.
Thy mandate be done
on flyover country as it is in the coasts.
Give us this month our monthly check,
and audit us our trespasses,
as we file suit against those who trespass against us,
and lead us not into liberty,
but deliver us from ourselves.
For thine is the oligarchy,
and the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen.

 

[sangha]

Okay, then you're a little confused about what I'm saying.

Please re-read the fact that I am MOCKING the fact that socialists believe government is God.

As for my Biblical understanding, it may be a little rusty in places but it's far better than most Christians. I've studied it with a concordance as well as own a parallel study Bible with and own at least 6 different translations, an encyclopedias, scholarly works on certain subjects in scripture as well. I've been a member of a church's deliverance ministry as well. So please be careful on your assumption on what I know or don't know and also know very well about people playing 'salad bar' with the scriptures.

And I am mocking that fact that christians (like you) are hypocrits for not believing that the govt gets its' authority from God.

And despite your claims of Biblical knowledge, you obviously are either:

a) ignorant that the Bible says the govt gets its' authority from God
OR
b) a lying hypocrit who knows what God said, but who ignores it because it's inconvenient to do what God wants you to do

Oh so now you're trying to twist the fact that since God is sovereign that those who have been appointed to government have divine right and therefore speak with the authority of God? Sorry bucko. If that's the case, Hitler spoke with the authority of God and God was trying to exterminate His Chosen People.

Or are you going to twist that too?

I don't have to twist anything. The Bible is quite clear about the matter. According to the Bible, God is sovereign, the govt gets its' authority from God, and there are no exclusions in the Bible for Hitler. According to the Bible, which Christians are supposed to believe is the Word of God, Hitler got his authority to rule from God Himself.

I am quite familiar that God allows and or ordains every one their appointed place in his creation, but we are all given to free will and can stray from God's desired path for us. God has foreknowledge of every decision we will make but that doesn't mean He makes it for us.

What I find revolting is the fact that you seem to be saying that God is a socialist and that taxation is Godly.

You find it revolting becuase you're a moron who can't understand the written word.

I have not said anything about what *I* believe. I have merely pointed out that Christians are hypocrits who ignore God when they find His Word to be inconvenient. This just proves that Christians revel in their sinfulness to the point they publically reject His Word

 

[sangha]

The Government's Prayer

Our Government in D.C.,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy nanny state come.
Thy mandate be done
on flyover country as it is in the coasts.
Give us this month our monthly check,
and audit us our trespasses,
as we file suit against those who trespass against us,
and lead us not into liberty,
but deliver us from ourselves.
For thine is the oligarchy,
and the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen.

That's not what socialists say. That's what the Bible says

Christians are so dumb, they don't even know what God has said

Romans 13
Submission to Governing Authorities
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

 

[Big Fitz]

That's what the Bible says

No. That is what your twisted interpretation says.

 

[Big Fitz]

And I am mocking that fact that christians (like you) are hypocrits for not believing that the govt gets its' authority from God.

And despite your claims of Biblical knowledge, you obviously are either:

a) ignorant that the Bible says the govt gets its' authority from God
OR
b) a lying hypocrit who knows what God said, but who ignores it because it's inconvenient to do what God wants you to do

Oh so now you're trying to twist the fact that since God is sovereign that those who have been appointed to government have divine right and therefore speak with the authority of God? Sorry bucko. If that's the case, Hitler spoke with the authority of God and God was trying to exterminate His Chosen People.

Or are you going to twist that too?

I don't have to twist anything. The Bible is quite clear about the matter. According to the Bible, God is sovereign, the govt gets its' authority from God, and there are no exclusions in the Bible for Hitler. According to the Bible, which Christians are supposed to believe is the Word of God, Hitler got his authority to rule from God Himself.

I am quite familiar that God allows and or ordains every one their appointed place in his creation, but we are all given to free will and can stray from God's desired path for us. God has foreknowledge of every decision we will make but that doesn't mean He makes it for us.

What I find revolting is the fact that you seem to be saying that God is a socialist and that taxation is Godly.

You find it revolting becuase you're a moron who can't understand the written word.

I have not said anything about what *I* believe. I have merely pointed out that Christians are hypocrits who ignore God when they find His Word to be inconvenient. This just proves that Christians revel in their sinfulness to the point they publically reject His Word

Mmm... I see. You are the supreme authority of the meaning of the Bible.

Just like a socialist.

 

[sangha]

That's what the Bible says

No. That is what your twisted interpretation says.

Here's what the Bible says

Romans 13
Submission to Governing Authorities
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

In wingnut world, "The authorities that exists have been established by God" means that the authorities that exist have NOT been established by God

 

[sangha]

Oh so now you're trying to twist the fact that since God is sovereign that those who have been appointed to government have divine right and therefore speak with the authority of God? Sorry bucko. If that's the case, Hitler spoke with the authority of God and God was trying to exterminate His Chosen People.

Or are you going to twist that too?

I don't have to twist anything. The Bible is quite clear about the matter. According to the Bible, God is sovereign, the govt gets its' authority from God, and there are no exclusions in the Bible for Hitler. According to the Bible, which Christians are supposed to believe is the Word of God, Hitler got his authority to rule from God Himself.

I am quite familiar that God allows and or ordains every one their appointed place in his creation, but we are all given to free will and can stray from God's desired path for us. God has foreknowledge of every decision we will make but that doesn't mean He makes it for us.

What I find revolting is the fact that you seem to be saying that God is a socialist and that taxation is Godly.

You find it revolting becuase you're a moron who can't understand the written word.

I have not said anything about what *I* believe. I have merely pointed out that Christians are hypocrits who ignore God when they find His Word to be inconvenient. This just proves that Christians revel in their sinfulness to the point they publically reject His Word

Mmm... I see. You are the supreme authority of the meaning of the Bible.

Just like a socialist.

How does a Christian "moron" like you interpret Romans 13?

Romans 13
Submission to Governing Authorities
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

DO you think that the sentence "The authorities that exist have been established by God" means that the authorities have NOT been establoished by God?

Do you think "They are Gods' servants" means that they are NOT Gods' servants?

 

[Big Fitz]

So you're a Calvinist. No free will, only predestination?

 

[sangha]

So you're a Calvinist. No free will, only predestination?

Fitz has completely given up on trying to defend his violent and evil religion. He's too scared to offer his interpretation of Romans 13 because he knows that I am right

 

[Big Fitz]

You do realize that by this we should still be English subjects according to your own interpretation... and it IS your own.

Our founding fathers rebelled against the divine authority of the English King, appointed by God to rule us. Is God contradicting His own word?

So what are you trying to say here, other than to work hard to illustrate your own foolishness?

 

[Big Fitz]

So you're a Calvinist. No free will, only predestination?

Fitz has completely given up on trying to defend his violent and evil religion. He's too scared to offer his interpretation of Romans 13 because he knows that I am right

ROFL... declaring victory a little premature I do believe. Why aren't you defending your twisted interpretation by answering my questions on your spurious reasoning?

 

[sangha]

You do realize that by this we should still be English subjects according to your own interpretation... and it IS your own.

Our founding fathers rebelled against the divine authority of the English King, appointed by God to rule us. Is God contradicting His own word?

So what are you trying to say here, other than to work hard to illustrate your own foolishness?

I see that Fitz is still to afraid to post his interpretation of Romans 13. He knows my interpretation is right (how else can "the authorities are God’s servants" be interpreted?) but he's not honest enough to say what is wrong with it, and what it really means

 

[sangha]

So you're a Calvinist. No free will, only predestination?

Fitz has completely given up on trying to defend his violent and evil religion. He's too scared to offer his interpretation of Romans 13 because he knows that I am right

ROFL... declaring victory a little premature I do believe. Why aren't you defending your twisted interpretation by answering my questions on your spurious reasoning?

Once again,. Fitz shows that he is too scared to post his interpretation of Roman 13. He dishonestly claims I'm wrong, but he can't demonstrate anything inaccurate that I've said and he can't post what he thinks is the proper interpretaion of Romans 13

Christians hate to talk about what the Bible says becuase it makes it harder to ignore the Bible, which is what christians do best

 

[Big Fitz]

Since you're focusing so hard on one verse, let's take a look at what smarter people than you say.

I see you're using ONLY the king James translation. Always useful to get more clear translations like the NIV or expanded KJV.

From the NIV:

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

Does this word mean that God is actively running the government that is totally under his control and doing His will in all things? If it was a good government, it should be. But since mankind has free will, this is not always so. In fact it is almost NEVER the case.

So what does "Establish" mean? To bigger experts than you, it means that it was allowed to come into existence. It does not mean that it is actually run by or synonymous to God's will. It means that God allowed them to come to power to serve His purposes and move forward to His ends. Now as with all thing God does, he allows us to choose His will or our own will and rebel in sin. He knows what we will do already, and has already planned ahead to use what we do for His ends. But that does not mean that God directs our choice. It is still OUR choice.

Now let's actually read more into context. Remember, that Romans was written by Paul as a letter to the Romans to help them with the big questions for Christians living in a culture that claimed it's ruler WAS a god. They were told to bow down and worship him or suffer imprisonment or death. There were problems from people using coins stamped with the caesar's image. It is part of why the Pharisees tried to trap Jesus into the questions about taxation being a rebellion against God in their faith, and failed. Christ diffused it best of course by pointing out we should render unto caesar, what is caesar's. Money. He demands taxes, give him taxes. Render unto God, what is God's. SO what IS God's? Your heart and soul. The flesh and this world is temporary and passing. Corrupted with sin and decay. His Kingdom is eternal and not of the flesh. Know the difference between the two, and give God what is of real value.

Paul continues in Romans 13 about taxation.

6: This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.

In common sense and vernacular, what does this mean? Simply put, Government works to govern and people devote their lives to this. They must be supported and therefore require you, as a member of the people they rule or in modern reference, serve, to pay for them to sustain themselves. This does not exempt them from being good rulers and servants of the people. They must still hold to their obligations of being Godly and seeking God's will, but you have an obligation to pay taxes for what the government needs to run.

Now, where the issue falls apart for socialists in this nation is that Government has abandoned it's agreed upon limits and has gone... rogue. It is violating the covenant between it and it's people. It does not serve equally, favoring special interests. It does not limit itself to it's properly appointed taxes, taking more than it needs to redistribute wealth to it's friends. This is not Godly behavior, and therefore we the people have the right to complain and petition, question and replace according to our own governmental compact. Which, if you seem to recall, has been established by God by your own logic, and therefore must be honored and obeyed. Something our own government is not doing.

7: Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Simply put: Do not lie and cheat the government out of what is rightfully theirs for their operation. Since our government is in violation of it's rules as established, we have a right to demand their return to the rules, but until then, you pay what government commands you to pay and be good citizens.

8: Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law.

And our government is obeying God on this how? They steal from one citizen to give to another. How is this showing the debt of love?

9: The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," [fn] and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." [fn]

Love your neighbor as yourself. How is it that you believe that the top 2% of wage earners do not deserve what they have worked for? Where's the love in this? No where in scripture does it say that someone is not allowed to enjoy the fruits of their labor. If you can find it without twisting it's meaning or taking it out of context, I'll be shocked.

So, now that we've shown you are playing 'salad bar' with scripture for your own evil ends, you wanna try this again sockpuppet? And lest we not forget:

Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[daveman]

The Government's Prayer

Our Government in D.C.,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy nanny state come.
Thy mandate be done
on flyover country as it is in the coasts.
Give us this month our monthly check,
and audit us our trespasses,
as we file suit against those who trespass against us,
and lead us not into liberty,
but deliver us from ourselves.
For thine is the oligarchy,
and the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen.

That's not what socialists say. That's what the Bible says

Christians are so dumb, they don't even know what God has said

Romans 13
Submission to Governing Authorities
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

No, that's what Statists say. God never said to worship government.

 

[Big Fitz]

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
2Ti 4:4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
2Ti 4:5 But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

Yet another nail in SangHAH!'s laughable theology.

 

[sangha]

Since you're focusing so hard on one verse, let's take a look at what smarter people than you say.

I see you're using ONLY the king James translation. Always useful to get more clear translations like the NIV or expanded KJV.

Please feel free to use any English version of the Bible.

From the NIV:

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

Does this word mean that God is actively running the government that is totally under his control and doing His will in all things? If it was a good government, it should be. But since mankind has free will, this is not always so. In fact it is almost NEVER the case.

You have engaged in selective editing. Romans 13 answers your question, but you edited the answer out

They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer

This quote clearly states that the authorities are Gods servants. They do what God wants.

So what does "Establish" mean? To bigger experts than you, it means that it was allowed to come into existence. It does not mean that it is actually run by or synonymous to God's will. It means that God allowed them to come to power to serve His purposes and move forward to His ends. Now as with all thing God does, he allows us to choose His will or our own will and rebel in sin. He knows what we will do already, and has already planned ahead to use what we do for His ends. But that does not mean that God directs our choice. It is still OUR choice.

Regardless of what "Establish" means, God was very clear on how christians should behave towards their govt. But christians find it easier to ignore the Word of God.

Now let's actually read more into context. Remember, that Romans was written by Paul as a letter to the Romans to help them with the big questions for Christians living in a culture that claimed it's ruler WAS a god. They were told to bow down and worship him or suffer imprisonment or death. There were problems from people using coins stamped with the caesar's image. It is part of why the Pharisees tried to trap Jesus into the questions about taxation being a rebellion against God in their faith, and failed. Christ diffused it best of course by pointing out we should render unto caesar, what is caesar's. Money. He demands taxes, give him taxes. Render unto God, what is God's. SO what IS God's? Your heart and soul. The flesh and this world is temporary and passing. Corrupted with sin and decay. His Kingdom is eternal and not of the flesh. Know the difference between the two, and give God what is of real value.

It's nice to see you finally attempt a fact based response. Unfortunately, the facts you cite do nothing to refute anything I've actually said.

Paul continues in Romans 13 about taxation.

6: This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.

In common sense and vernacular, what does this mean? Simply put, Government works to govern and people devote their lives to this. They must be supported and therefore require you, as a member of the people they rule or in modern reference, serve, to pay for them to sustain themselves. This does not exempt them from being good rulers and servants of the people. They must still hold to their obligations of being Godly and seeking God's will, but you have an obligation to pay taxes for what the government needs to run.

Correction: God said you should pay your taxes. It says nothing about not paying taxes that are not "needed" by the govt. You just made that up. God was clear about this, so why tell such a transparent lie. Here's what God said

This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe: If you owe taxes, pay taxes

I see nothing in there about paying only the taxes that are "needed"

Now, where the issue falls apart for socialists in this nation is that Government has abandoned it's agreed upon limits and has gone... rogue.

God Himself says you are wrong.

there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves

It is violating the covenant between it and it's people. It does not serve equally, favoring special interests.

God disagrees (see Romans 13)

It does not limit itself to it's properly appointed taxes, taking more than it needs to redistribute wealth to it's friends. This is not Godly behavior, and therefore we the people have the right to complain and petition, question and replace according to our own governmental compact. Which, if you seem to recall, has been established by God by your own logic, and therefore must be honored and obeyed. Something our own government is not doing.

God disagrees. God says the authorities are servants of God who do Gods Will. (see Romans 13)

Simply put: Do not lie and cheat the government out of what is rightfully theirs for their operation.

Where does it say that in Romans13? Or are you just making stuff up like the moron christians always do?

Since our government is in violation of it's rules as established, we have a right to demand their return to the rules, but until then, you pay what government commands you to pay and be good citizens.

Where does it say that in Romans 13? Or are you making up stuff the way the moron christians always do?

And our government is obeying God on this how? They steal from one citizen to give to another. How is this showing the debt of love?

Christian hypocrits claim that God is infallible, but when God Himself says the govts' authority come from God, the moron wingnuts will argue that he knows better than God.

9: The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," [fn] and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." [fn]

Love your neighbor as yourself. How is it that you believe that the top 2% of wage earners do not deserve what they have worked for?

I think their profits should be tax free, so long as they earn those profits without using any govt resources, like the roads, electricity, etc

You have to lie about what I believe because you can't defend your own beliefs

Where's the love in this? No where in scripture does it say that someone is not allowed to enjoy the fruits of their labor. If you can find it without twisting it's meaning or taking it out of context, I'll be shocked.

Actually, Jesus urged his followers to give away all of their possessions. Moron christian wingnuts think this means they should keep everythiing for themselves.

So, now that we've shown you are playing 'salad bar' with scripture for your own evil ends, you wanna try this again sockpuppet? And lest we not forget:

Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

You haven't shown anything besides your ignorance of the Bible and your willingness to ignore Gods' Word.

 

[Big Fitz]

Oh wow... I guess when you are blind to the answer, you really can't admit you got your ass pwnd.

De fucking lusional.

To actually respond to your stupidity or not... I'll need a little time to consider the value of entertaing utter dumbassitude.