Drug testing for welfare

[Gadawg73]

OK, I'm open, how do we decide to help them become more valuable members of society?

Get them drug counseling, food assistance, housing assistance, school or training. Other beneficiaries are drug counselors, food store, real estate companies who take section 8 and trade shcools etc that teach.

All those things have been tried. What are the results? In rare instances, the person may recover and become useful. It all comes down to the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water..." By propping up the dregs, all we do is enable the greatest number of them to continue their self-destructive behavior. Nature has a way of dealing with creatures that fail to develop the skills needed to survive. As it stands, they are not, nor will most ever be, capable of contributing to society overall. As a matter of fact, by subsidizing people who demonstrate the lack of self interest, we do more to damage the social structure.

Law enforcement, prosecutors and Judges ALL AGREE that drug counseling and treatment is the most effective way to go.
Politicians that answer to the dumb masses ignore them in most instances.

 

[gallantwarrior]

But, again, why are you picking out drug use? These miscreants likely have plenty of other vices we could "help" them with. Wouldn't we want to "coach" them likewise?

Because that is what the thread is about. Hence, the title

So, you don't want to answer? If the goal is to 'reform' them, why wouldn't you support using the leverage of government support to twist their arms in other ways?

Seriously, I'm trying to understand the motivation of those who support this initiative. Is it just to reduce the welfare rolls as much as possible? To scare away some of those who would apply? Or least make it clear to them that they will forfeit fundamental rights and be treated as second-class citizens if they do?

Their failure to not only contribute but to take from others to subsidize their lifestyle makes them second-class citizens. They need to be treated as they behave, they need to feel shame and embarrassment for their failures.

 

[rightwinger]

Get them drug counseling, food assistance, housing assistance, school or training. Other beneficiaries are drug counselors, food store, real estate companies who take section 8 and trade shcools etc that teach.

All those things have been tried. What are the results? In rare instances, the person may recover and become useful. It all comes down to the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water..." By propping up the dregs, all we do is enable the greatest number of them to continue their self-destructive behavior. Nature has a way of dealing with creatures that fail to develop the skills needed to survive. As it stands, they are not, nor will most ever be, capable of contributing to society overall. As a matter of fact, by subsidizing people who demonstrate the lack of self interest, we do more to damage the social structure.

Law enforcement, prosecutors and Judges ALL AGREE that drug counseling and treatment is the most effective way to go.
Politicians that answer to the dumb masses ignore them in most instances.

It is amazing what states pay to enforce the War on Drugs. Yet when it comes to education and healthcare...they don't have the money

 

[gallantwarrior]

I see no problem singling out a particular class of persons - those applying for public assistance - to submit to a drug/alcohol test as a condition of their receiving public assistance.

When it comes to government, I have a big problem with that. It's a fundamental violation of equal protection and undermines the rule of law. It indulges the corporatist trend of group rights and government assigned privilege.

I have to submit to such a test to obtain and sustain employment. I choose to do so. Those who apply for assistance also have the same choice.

It's not the same at all. Your employment is a voluntary arrangement between you and your employer. Government programs are not voluntary - at least not when it comes to funding them. We are all forced to pay for these programs and shouldn't have to give up our constitutional rights to use them.

Paying for government programs is not voluntary. Applying for and receiving benefits of government programs is voluntary. If you wish to receive benefits, I see no problem why you cannot comply with certain conditions.

 

[gallantwarrior]

First off, drug use is against the law. Criminals lose rights.

Hmm... well if law enforcement is the concern it's a completely different discussion. In that case, it's worth pointing out that criminals don't lose their rights until they've been proven guilty. I also have to ask, then, why you're targeting welfare recipients? Why not just drug test everyone?



You're assuming people on welfare don't pay any taxes? That they never have and never will? Don't you think that's a bit of a stretch?

Third, it's a constitutional right to be a goddamn crackhead?

I'd argue it does, but I doubt the current Court would agree. In any case, there are plenty of other rights that this proposal clearly tramples. The right to due process, the right to privacy, the right to be presumed innocent until proven otherwise, etc... Pretty basic stuff really.

Pretty sure if they fail a drug test is means they do drugs. Well maybe someone melted that shit down, put it in a needle and stuck them in their sleep? I guess thats possible.. lol
This is about giving welfare recipients drug tests because they abuse it. WTF does "everyone" have to do with it?

In a liberal/progressive black and white world, it's all or none. Shades of gray don't exist except where they might work to the libs advantage.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

Would be awfully expensive.

 

[Staidhup]

Would be awfully expensive.

Why not! just think of all the money we would save. My guess is that the dealers would be a little pissed off but then again they don't pay taxes either. Dam it's our money why not, we have a zero tolerance policy so why not the Government?

 

[bobcollum]

Lets sink more money we dont have into useless beings! Thats the democrat way! WTF?
It's not the countrys fault they started abusing drugs. Its their goddamn fault. But that is the one thing democrats cant understand... PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

I don't know if you've had an epiphany since this post, but what you're not getting is when you have to pay for a large majority of the tests because a scant few are failing, you're 'sinking more money that we don't have' into useless legislation.

Do you understand that?

 

[gallantwarrior]

The vast majority of drug addicts who are on welfare are ALCOHOLICS.

Does that matter to anyone?

Of course not.

Nope. This is basically the same sort of issue as the voter id nonsense. The point is to make it more painful to be on welfare. Just as the voter id movement had nothing to do with voter fraud, and everything to do with minimizing the number of Democrats voting, the welfare drug testing is a threat to minimize the number of people who apply for welfare.

Minimizing the welfare state is not a bad goal, in my view, but this is the worst possible way to go about it and only further establishes the nanny state - something conservatives are nominally against.

It should be painful to be on the public dole. Once upon a time, a man would do almost any kind of work to keep his family fed, housed, and clothed. Now, too many families on welfare lack any adult male influence of any decent consequence.

I'm still trying to figure out why Dems are so stupid, lazy, ignorant, or disinterested to be able to get a photo ID. Especially your 'poor' on the public dole. Most places require positive ID to receive benefits.

 

[gallantwarrior]

All DMVs issue photo IDs.

It's already been mentioned that the poor Dems don't drive, so they have no way of getting to the DMV to pick up a photo ID.

 

[gallantwarrior]

There is also the issue of people's whose ID's aren't accepted.

Student IDs
Out of state ID's
Those who have moved
Or women who have gotten married

There is almost no information on my DL that is correct. My name is different, my address is different, it's even the wrong state. I go to the DMV to get a new one, and they send me away. It's not expired, so you dont need to renew it.

Wow! Too lazy to update your information? Do they charge extra for that where you are?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Get them drug counseling, food assistance, housing assistance, school or training. Other beneficiaries are drug counselors, food store, real estate companies who take section 8 and trade shcools etc that teach.

All those things have been tried. What are the results? In rare instances, the person may recover and become useful. It all comes down to the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water..." By propping up the dregs, all we do is enable the greatest number of them to continue their self-destructive behavior. Nature has a way of dealing with creatures that fail to develop the skills needed to survive. As it stands, they are not, nor will most ever be, capable of contributing to society overall. As a matter of fact, by subsidizing people who demonstrate the lack of self interest, we do more to damage the social structure.

Law enforcement, prosecutors and Judges ALL AGREE that drug counseling and treatment is the most effective way to go.
Politicians that answer to the dumb masses ignore them in most instances.

So we provide counseling and treatment. How many times do we do that per "customer" before we finally say enough is enough?

 

[AmyNation]

There is also the issue of people's whose ID's aren't accepted.

Student IDs
Out of state ID's
Those who have moved
Or women who have gotten married

There is almost no information on my DL that is correct. My name is different, my address is different, it's even the wrong state. I go to the DMV to get a new one, and they send me away.It's not expired, so you dont need to renew it.

Wow! Too lazy to update your information? Do they charge extra for that where you are?

Did you post before you read what I wrote?

 

[dblack]

Paying for government programs is not voluntary. Applying for and receiving benefits of government programs isvoluntary. If you wish to receive benefits, I see no problem why you cannot comply with certain conditions.

Exactly. It's the same old stunt of taking our money from us via force and then making us jump through hoops to get it back. Nanny state uber alles.

Their failure to not only contribute but to take from others to subsidize their lifestyle makes them second-class citizens. They need to be treated as they behave, they need to feel shame and embarrassment for their failures.

I see no problem singling out a particular class of persons - those applying for public assistance - to submit to a drug/alcohol test as a condition of their receiving public assistance.

It should be painful to be on the public dole. Once upon a time, a man would do almost any kind of work to keep his family fed, housed, and clothed. Now, too many families on welfare lack any adult male influence of any decent consequence.

I understand where you're coming from, I just wanted to confirm my suspicion. You're out to punish welfare recipients, and the rationalizations are mostly bullshit. The real impetus for this is the conservative conviction that anyone who would apply for assistance is a low-life that deserves our scorn. It doesn't matter whether drugs are harmful, or illegal - the point is to twist some arms and piss on people on the dole. Kick 'em when their down I 'spose.

 

[Nosmo King]

What do you guys think about FL doing the drug testing requirement? I say HELL YEA! 56 more states to go!

Who's paying for it?

 

[AmyNation]

What do you guys think about FL doing the drug testing requirement? I say HELL YEA! 56 more states to go!

Who's paying for it?

The taxpayers of FL, to the tune of well over 150k a year.

 

[Nosmo King]

What do you guys think about FL doing the drug testing requirement? I say HELL YEA! 56 more states to go!

Who's paying for it?

The taxpayers of FL, to the tune of well over 150k a year.

It's got to be more than that! Drug testing, administration of all the records, that kind of program state wide has to run into the millions.

 

[AmyNation]

Who's paying for it?

The taxpayers of FL, to the tune of well over 150k a year.

It's got to be more than that! Drug testing, administration of all the records, that kind of program state wide has to run into the millions.

Well, yes. The 150k is only the cost of the test themselves.

 

[Koios]

The taxpayers of FL, to the tune of well over 150k a year.

It's got to be more than that! Drug testing, administration of all the records, that kind of program state wide has to run into the millions.

Well, yes. The 150k is only the cost of the test themselves.

And the beauty is, it catches pot users in its net, but crack and meth users can pass more easily, since it stays in our system 2 to 3 days, while pot takes a month or more to be undetectable.

Ain't life ironic. LOL

 

[TNHarley]

It's got to be more than that! Drug testing, administration of all the records, that kind of program state wide has to run into the millions.

Well, yes. The 150k is only the cost of the test themselves.

And the beauty is, it catches pot users in its net, but crack and meth users can pass more easily, since it stays in our system 2 to 3 days, while pot takes a month or more to be undetectable.

Ain't life ironic. LOL

No wonder you dont support drug tests! Your a meth/crackhead! lol