Drug testing for welfare

[gallantwarrior]

So your saying we should keep giving drug users welfare because they might starve? People sell there EBT for money. It happens all the time. I unfortunately know of a few people that sell all but about 75 dollars a month!

No, in the United States we have the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, each have a Due Process Clause. That means one is innocent of a crime until proven guilty, and a citizen can not be subject to a punitive measure – such as denying an applicant’s public assistance – absent due process.

The Fourteenth Amendment also has a Equal Protection Clause, that means a particular class of persons – such as public assistance applicants – can’t be singled out for a punitive measure simply because they belong to that class, or society in general ‘disapproves’ of that class’ activities.

Because simply applying for public assistance doesn’t mean one is a ‘drug user,’ the state can not take adverse action against applicants without evidence of an illegal activity.

Last, there are also Fourth Amendment privacy rights issues as well as reasonable search and seizure concerns.

I see no problem singling out a particular class of persons - those applying for public assistance - to submit to a drug/alcohol test as a condition of their receiving public assistance. I have to submit to such a test to obtain and sustain employment. I choose to do so. Those who apply for assistance also have the same choice. If I fail a "test", there are processes with which I much comply. Apply those same conditions to public assistance applicants who fail their tests. PS, in most places, illegal use of drugs equals illegal activity. Duh!

In the same line of reasoning, you have absolute right to privacy...until you waive that right to obtain some benefit. In my case, I agree to random drug/alcohol testing in order to keep my job. The same can, and should, apply to those who desire to receive public assistance. If they wish not to waive their Fifth Amendment rights, that's cool. They just don't receive public funding.

 

[JQPublic1]

Corporations receive tax breaks you goofball... not the CEO's. Are you now arguing that corporations are people and should be drug tested?

My God you lefties are so woefully ignorant.

And for the record, I'm against drug testing for pragmatic reasons... all it will do is create another government bureaucracy, more government employees, etc. and at the end of the day, will cost far more than it saves.

IN retrospect, after reviewing your "rush to judgement" analysis of my post, I thought it best to elaborate.

I cannot allow you to misinform the public about corporate welfare being only in the form of tax breaks. The cost to the taxpayers also materializes as subsidies and bounties.

Also, make no mistake. I don't believe that corporations are people. That was the Republican candidate Romney's claim. I was using sarcasm and expected that any sane person reading it would understand that! Sorry if I over estimated your intelligence. I won't make that mistake again!

 

[Paulie]

Drug tests are too easy to beat, just a waste of money and time. End the war on drugs, legalize them and tax them. Then work on addiction. Saving billions on prosecution, imprisonment, and reaping billions on sales taxes.

The people being tested pay for the test up front. If they pass, they're repaid. If they fail, they eat the loss.

 

[Paulie]

I should clarify, I've gone back and forth on the issue.

It seems right to me, to not give hand outs to drug users, however I also recognize that it cost the state far more to test then to simply give them the welfare, and I do worry about the precedent this sets.

You do know that recipients paid for the test right?

 

[sitarro]

George Soros will just buy all of the labs so he can keep his people fat, dumb and happy for the next election. The guy can't die soon enough.

 

[AmyNation]

I should clarify, I've gone back and forth on the issue.

It seems right to me, to not give hand outs to drug users, however I also recognize that it cost the state far more to test then to simply give them the welfare, and I do worry about the precedent this sets.

You do know that recipients paid for the test right?

Yes those that failed, and a vast majority of them didn't fail, and those that did were only charged for the cost of the test. Which is why it cost the state of FL so much.

 

[Koios]

Keep giving drug users welfare because it helps the economy? Oh good fuckin god

Yep; that's about the only upside, if we haven't the slightest concern for the person and/or their child(ren).

But if drug use has you down, maybe take the additional step of dealing with the public health problem, and mandate they enter a monitored drug treatment program. Good? Or good fucking god? Whadaya think?

You know, if the person hasn't the slightest care about him/herself...or their children, too fucking bad. There have been myriad programs available for decades now and the problem has not been alleviated. Some people just don't give a shit about themselves, or the unfortunate spawn they engender. I should care why?

I suspect they care as much about themselves as you do yourself. It's kinda human nature. But they're sick due to an addiction, and we have to decide, if as society, we throw these people to the wayside or help them become more valuable members of the society.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Yep; that's about the only upside, if we haven't the slightest concern for the person and/or their child(ren).

But if drug use has you down, maybe take the additional step of dealing with the public health problem, and mandate they enter a monitored drug treatment program. Good? Or good fucking god? Whadaya think?

You know, if the person hasn't the slightest care about him/herself...or their children, too fucking bad. There have been myriad programs available for decades now and the problem has not been alleviated. Some people just don't give a shit about themselves, or the unfortunate spawn they engender. I should care why?

I suspect they care as much about themselves as you do yourself. It's kinda human nature. But they're sick due to an addiction, and we have to decide, if as society, we throw these people to the wayside or help them become more valuable members of the society.

OK, I'm open, how do we decide to help them become more valuable members of society?

 

[Koios]

You know, if the person hasn't the slightest care about him/herself...or their children, too fucking bad. There have been myriad programs available for decades now and the problem has not been alleviated. Some people just don't give a shit about themselves, or the unfortunate spawn they engender. I should care why?

I suspect they care as much about themselves as you do yourself. It's kinda human nature. But they're sick due to an addiction, and we have to decide, if as society, we throw these people to the wayside or help them become more valuable members of the society.

OK, I'm open, how do we decide to help them become more valuable members of society?

Get them drug counseling, food assistance, housing assistance, school or training. Other beneficiaries are drug counselors, food store, real estate companies who take section 8 and trade shcools etc that teach.

 

[TNHarley]

Lets sink more money we dont have into useless beings! Thats the democrat way! WTF?
It's not the countrys fault they started abusing drugs. Its their goddamn fault. But that is the one thing democrats cant understand... PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

 

[dblack]

Lets sink more money we dont have into useless beings! Thats the democrat way! WTF?
It's not the countrys fault they started abusing drugs. Its their goddamn fault. But that is the one thing democrats cant understand... PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

But, again, why are you picking out drug use? These miscreants likely have plenty of other vices we could "help" them with. Wouldn't we want to "coach" them likewise?

 

[TNHarley]

Lets sink more money we dont have into useless beings! Thats the democrat way! WTF?
It's not the countrys fault they started abusing drugs. Its their goddamn fault. But that is the one thing democrats cant understand... PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

But, again, why are you picking out drug use? These miscreants likely have plenty of other vices we could "help" them with. Wouldn't we want to "coach" them likewise?

Because that is what the thread is about. Hence, the title

 

[dblack]

Lets sink more money we dont have into useless beings! Thats the democrat way! WTF?
It's not the countrys fault they started abusing drugs. Its their goddamn fault. But that is the one thing democrats cant understand... PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

But, again, why are you picking out drug use? These miscreants likely have plenty of other vices we could "help" them with. Wouldn't we want to "coach" them likewise?

Because that is what the thread is about. Hence, the title

So, you don't want to answer? If the goal is to 'reform' them, why wouldn't you support using the leverage of government support to twist their arms in other ways?

Seriously, I'm trying to understand the motivation of those who support this initiative. Is it just to reduce the welfare rolls as much as possible? To scare away some of those who would apply? Or least make it clear to them that they will forfeit fundamental rights and be treated as second-class citizens if they do?

 

[TNHarley]

But, again, why are you picking out drug use? These miscreants likely have plenty of other vices we could "help" them with. Wouldn't we want to "coach" them likewise?

Because that is what the thread is about. Hence, the title

So, you don't want to answer? If the goal is to 'reform' them, why wouldn't you support using the leverage of government support to twist their arms in other ways?

Seriously, I'm trying to understand the motivation of those who support this initiative. Is it just to reduce the welfare rolls as much as possible? To scare away some of those who would apply? Or least make it clear to them that they will forfeit fundamental rights and be treated as second-class citizens if they do?

I see no problem singling out a particular class of persons - those applying for public assistance - to submit to a drug/alcohol test as a condition of their receiving public assistance. I have to submit to such a test to obtain and sustain employment. I choose to do so. Those who apply for assistance also have the same choice. If I fail a "test", there are processes with which I much comply. Apply those same conditions to public assistance applicants who fail their tests. PS, in most places, illegal use of drugs equals illegal activity. Duh!

In the same line of reasoning, you have absolute right to privacy...until you waive that right to obtain some benefit. In my case, I agree to random drug/alcohol testing in order to keep my job. The same can, and should, apply to those who desire to receive public assistance. If they wish not to waive their Fifth Amendment rights, that's cool. They just don't receive public funding.

I enjoyed this post. Thought I would share it.

 

[Koios]

There should be no welfare income for alcoholics and "druggies," unless incarcerated in a facility to dry out. On release, they should be tested to confirm dryness, and if a 3 shrinks report him/her beyond help, terminated, without prejudice. Now that I've given you-all he solution, do you think it possible to make it so? Nothing will help!

A fiscal conservative wet-dream: take our undesirables and lock em up, to the tune of $150 to $200 a day, and cut taxes to pay for it!!!

 

[Politico]

All for it. If you have enough money for crack you don't need to be on the teet.

 

[dblack]

I see no problem singling out a particular class of persons - those applying for public assistance - to submit to a drug/alcohol test as a condition of their receiving public assistance.

When it comes to government, I have a big problem with that. It's a fundamental violation of equal protection and undermines the rule of law. It indulges the corporatist trend of group rights and government assigned privilege.

I have to submit to such a test to obtain and sustain employment. I choose to do so. Those who apply for assistance also have the same choice.

It's not the same at all. Your employment is a voluntary arrangement between you and your employer. Government programs are not voluntary - at least not when it comes to funding them. We are all forced to pay for these programs and shouldn't have to give up our constitutional rights to use them.

 

[dblack]

There should be no welfare income for alcoholics and "druggies," unless incarcerated in a facility to dry out. On release, they should be tested to confirm dryness, and if a 3 shrinks report him/her beyond help, terminated, without prejudice. Now that I've given you-all he solution, do you think it possible to make it so? Nothing will help!

A fiscal conservative wet-dream: take our undesirables and lock em up, to the tune of $150 to $200 a day, and cut taxes to pay for it!!!

I think that's been the indirect aim of the welfare state all along.

 

[TNHarley]

I see no problem singling out a particular class of persons - those applying for public assistance - to submit to a drug/alcohol test as a condition of their receiving public assistance.

When it comes to government, I have a big problem with that. It's a fundamental violation of equal protection and undermines the rule of law. It indulges the corporatist trend of group rights and government assigned privilege.

I have to submit to such a test to obtain and sustain employment. I choose to do so. Those who apply for assistance also have the same choice.

It's not the same at all. Your employment is a voluntary arrangement between you and your employer. Government programs are not voluntary - at least not when it comes to funding them. We are all forced to pay for these programs and shouldn't have to give up our constitutional rights to use them.

First off, drug use is against the law. Criminals lose rights. I know the democrats cant understand that though..
Second, people that are getting welfare are not paying anything in.
Third, it's a constitutional right to be a goddamn crackhead?

 

[Uncensored2008]

If there were drug testing for welfare and food stamps, Jillian would be homeless and starving....