Drillers - School Is In Session

[Chris]

You all make me laugh as you...you all are talking apples and oranges. Oil is for cars and transportation needs, primarily. Heating oil is a small component of a barrel of oil. Electricity is for powering homes and businesses.

Can someone explain to me how solar and wind will be sufficient to power a car, truck or jet plane?

Sources of electricity are nuclear, coal, natural gas, solar, wind, hydroectric and geothermal to name a few.

Clueless, simply clueless.

Wind Power's Energetic Fans - washingtonpost.com

 

[Chris]

Wind power, solar power, conservation, and algae based ethanol are the clean energy answers to the energy problem.

 

[Chris]

Guess I missed the part where we can reliably predict the whether.

The whether?

Whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune....

Wind power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[wihosa]

Oil is used primarily for transportation (gasoline, diesel and jet fuel). Solar and wind are alternative choices to electricity not to the combustion engine. Until there are improvements with engine efficiency or alternative sources battery technology and hybrid engines; oil will be needed in large quantities.

The brainwashed repeat this stuff by rote.

Present day technology gives electric cars a range of 75 to 100 miles, but what is the range if instead of pulling into a gas station you pulled into a battery exchange station? What would be the range? Answer - unlimited.

Or are you trying to say that somehow electric motors are not powerful enough? What do you think supplies the power to the wheels of train locomotives? Yes, electric motors, that's why they're referred to as deisel electrics. Trains have been 'hybrids' for more than 50 years.

The technologies exist right now, off the shelf. Wind is already competetives with fossil fuels and far cheaper than nuclear. The only thing we need to convert to solar, wind, and other renewables is leadership.

The future is NOW!

 

[Chris]

Guess I missed the part where we can reliably predict the whether.

You don't need to predict the "whether."

You put the turbines where the wind usually blows. It's very simple really. Farmers used to use windmills all the time.

 

[wihosa]

There's nothing wrong with your proven reserve numbers, but's that all they are . They don't account for unproven reserves which we can also most likely get to nor do they account for the possbiilites in shale oil

At some point you will need to figure out that just saying 'you're wrong' isn't much of an argument. I'm sorry you can't add two numbers together, not my problem. You still fail to address the FACT that wind and solar simply are not reliable sources of electricity.

You're getting desperite now. That's right there is nothing wrong with the numbers I gave but there is with the numbers you pulled out of thin air.

Unproven reserves don't exist, they are unproven! And you think it is smart to base our future on something which may not ever materialize.

Wind and solar are both very reliable now, there's been thirty years of development incoporated into designs. The biggest inhibitor to wind right now is the need for transmission lines to the areas of suitable winds, still wind farms are springing up all over the country. Solar (PV) is also highly reliable but it needs mass production and a competitive market to drive the price down to the point of economic competitiveness.

Oil shale is the real pipe dream, it produces only 25% more energy than it consumes in the 'refining' process. Same problem as ethanol.

 

[chopcrazy]

The brainwashed repeat this stuff by rote.

Present day technology gives electric cars a range of 75 to 100 miles, but what is the range if instead of pulling into a gas station you pulled into a battery exchange station? What would be the range? Answer - unlimited.

Or are you trying to say that somehow electric motors are not powerful enough? What do you think supplies the power to the wheels of train locomotives? Yes, electric motors, that's why they're referred to as deisel electrics. Trains have been 'hybrids' for more than 50 years.

The technologies exist right now, off the shelf. Wind is already competetives with fossil fuels and far cheaper than nuclear. The only thing we need to convert to solar, wind, and other renewables is leadership.

The future is NOW!

Ok...litte brain...how will your proposed infrastructure work for rural america? It would work for metropolitan areas but there is a lot of open space in the USA. At what speed,weight and altitude could I travel 75-100 miles? Would it be able to get me from San Antonio to El Paso where there are very few towns? And traveling through small towns, you would be limited to daylight driving as most small towns close up by early evening.

I am all for solar and wind providing electricity to homes and businesses. I am unclear how solar and wind could directly propel a car or truck.

Why haven't your trains electric motors been applied to passanger cars on a massive scale?

How long will it take and at what cost to get the infrastructure in place? ERCOT estimates it will cost $1 million per mile of transmission line to connect the wind mills to the electric grid. www.ercot.com/news/presentations/2006/RenewablesTransmissi.pdf

How will the infrastructure be funded?

 

[Zoomie1980]

More lies from the Bern. You are a tool of the corporate lobbyists.

The Danes get 20% of their energy from wind power. The Iraelis are building one solar energy plant that will suppy 5% of their energy needs. Every house in American should have solar shingles and a wind turbine.

Have you priced out a set of solar panels lately? Their payback is over 20 years. Same with a residential wind turbine. Until the prices of those come down dramatically they will never be widely adopted, we will, instead, continue to draw our power from power plants.

 

[Chris]

Have you priced out a set of solar panels lately? Their payback is over 20 years. Same with a residential wind turbine. Until the prices of those come down dramatically they will never be widely adopted, we will, instead, continue to draw our power from power plants.

Please do a little reading....

Solar energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Bern80]

Please do a little reading....

Solar energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

oooookkaaay, How exactley does that link contradict that? Lot if info in there, not much about cost effectiveness.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Please do a little reading....

Solar energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well, I've actually priced both out. To get enough power to power my house 80% of the time I'd need a solar panel and storage facility that would run $20,000 installed. Not even sure I have room for a big enough setup. I priced a wind turbine out last month. The all wanted between $50,000-$60,000 installed for a 2kw/hr unit.

That's a lot of coin. Solar is cheaper per kw/hr but still beyond the reach of most average homeowners, are better advised to use the money for modern thermal windows and siding.

 

[Zoomie1980]

There's nothing wrong with your proven reserve numbers, but's that all they are . They don't account for unproven reserves which we can also most likely get to nor do they account for the possbiilites in shale oil

At some point you will need to figure out that just saying 'you're wrong' isn't much of an argument. I'm sorry you can't add two numbers together, not my problem. You still fail to address the FACT that wind and solar simply are not reliable sources of electricity.

The big missing piece in wind and solar, at the residential level, is a useful and economic storage system for when it's cloudy or calm and for storing excess power that would normally go back onto the power grid. I'd like to be able to store the excess power on 20+MPH windy days for use during calm periods.

 

[wihosa]

Well, I've actually priced both out. To get enough power to power my house 80% of the time I'd need a solar panel and storage facility that would run $20,000 installed. Not even sure I have room for a big enough setup. I priced a wind turbine out last month. The all wanted between $50,000-$60,000 installed for a 2kw/hr unit.

That's a lot of coin. Solar is cheaper per kw/hr but still beyond the reach of most average homeowners, are better advised to use the money for modern thermal windows and siding.

You were doing the wrong math. The object is not to be off the grid, the object is to lower your power bill.

What you want to know is how much solar panels (say a .25 kw/h) will cost and how much it will generate during the day when you are not home and using power. With two way metering any power generated and not consumed will go into the grid and literally turn your meter backward. Calculate your savings and then detemine the pay-back period for the solar panels. After that time the solar panels will make you money.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The brainwashed repeat this stuff by rote.

Present day technology gives electric cars a range of 75 to 100 miles, but what is the range if instead of pulling into a gas station you pulled into a battery exchange station? What would be the range? Answer - unlimited.

Or are you trying to say that somehow electric motors are not powerful enough? What do you think supplies the power to the wheels of train locomotives? Yes, electric motors, that's why they're referred to as deisel electrics. Trains have been 'hybrids' for more than 50 years.

The technologies exist right now, off the shelf. Wind is already competetives with fossil fuels and far cheaper than nuclear. The only thing we need to convert to solar, wind, and other renewables is leadership.

The future is NOW!

It won't take all kinds of electric battery stations to get off oil for transportation. You almost had it right when you mentioned locomotive engines. The most readily available and easiest implemented change we can make is to switch all cars to diesel engines.

Diesel engines as you may know were designed to run on straight vegetable oil not petrol. In fact the first diesel engine ran on peanut oil

Rudolf Diesel bio diesel green diesel Green oil fuel bio diesel Black oil bio diesel bio diesel

Diesel originally thought that the diesel engine, (readily adaptable in size and utilizing
locally available fuels like vegetable oil) would enable independent craftsmen, artisans, farmers and small industry
to endure the powered competition of larger industries that then virtually monopolized the predominant
power source-the oversized, expensive, fuel-wasting steam engine.

It would certainly be much easier, faster and less expensive to use a technology that already exists than to construct a new infrastructure to accommodate technology that doesn't exist yet.

 

[Chris]

Well, I've actually priced both out. To get enough power to power my house 80% of the time I'd need a solar panel and storage facility that would run $20,000 installed. Not even sure I have room for a big enough setup. I priced a wind turbine out last month. The all wanted between $50,000-$60,000 installed for a 2kw/hr unit.

That's a lot of coin. Solar is cheaper per kw/hr but still beyond the reach of most average homeowners, are better advised to use the money for modern thermal windows and siding.

The $200 wind turbine....

The Green Toolman - DIY Expert of Green Solutions

 

[editec]

Do you have a source for that comment? It seems that Maine is crawling with energy investment groups looking to put wind turbines all across our state. In one area of northern Maine they are currently negotiating to put 400 of them up.

That is true, Denny, and I did not know that you were also a resident of this great state.

But I wonder if all these plans are really feasible? the one in Mars Hills looks doable to me.

But former Governor King's plan to build wind generators in the Gulf of Maine, for example, looks DOA, to me.

But he's out there touting it.

What do you think of that plan?

 

[Oilfield_Mafia]

It won't take all kinds of electric battery stations to get off oil for transportation. You almost had it right when you mentioned locomotive engines. The most readily available and easiest implemented change we can make is to switch all cars to diesel engines.

Diesel engines as you may know were designed to run on straight vegetable oil not petrol. In fact the first diesel engine ran on peanut oil



Diesel originally thought that the diesel engine, (readily adaptable in size and utilizing
locally available fuels like vegetable oil) would enable independent craftsmen, artisans, farmers and small industry
to endure the powered competition of larger industries that then virtually monopolized the predominant
power source-the oversized, expensive, fuel-wasting steam engine.

It would certainly be much easier, faster and less expensive to use a technology that already exists than to construct a new infrastructure to accommodate technology that doesn't exist yet.

x2


I totally agree with this. Even the rigs that we use to drill the gas/oil wells are mainly diesel electrics. Diesel is where its at. Natural Gas as I see would be a great "alternative" energy, as its already used widely in many cities mass transit systems.

 

[Zoomie1980]

You were doing the wrong math. The object is not to be off the grid, the object is to lower your power bill.

What you want to know is how much solar panels (say a .25 kw/h) will cost and how much it will generate during the day when you are not home and using power. With two way metering any power generated and not consumed will go into the grid and literally turn your meter backward. Calculate your savings and then detemine the pay-back period for the solar panels. After that time the solar panels will make you money.

My payback time for a $5000 solar panel is about 8 years at current utility rates. For a wind turbine it is over 25 years. For a hybrid car, 7 years, for an electic like the Volt, about 10 years.

It's got to get a LOT better than that before we will see a run to this stuff. Maybe mass production will begin to get us there.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Going to half to be more specific, I looked but found no mention of 250 bil bbl.

Clearly you need more schooling.

The oil companies want to keep us dependent on their oil because that way we have to pay them for fuel. You do realize that the wind is free, don't you? As is sunlight. After installing a wind turbine the cost is very low, basically maintenance (which is minimal since there is only one moving part). Electric generators are as reliable as electric motors. With a conventional power plant you GET to buy oil every day!

What part of free don't you get?

My neighbor just installed a Solar power system on his home of roughly 1000sq ft... He paid $50,000... That is one helluva long way from free sis.

FTR: He can run his home on solar for two whole days... if he doesn't run his Air conditioner, washer, dryer, oven or stove.

ROFL... Their real Greeniacs who wanted to 'do th right thing' so they 'invested' roughly one eighth of the value of their home on what amounts to a system that turned their home into a flashlight.

 

[KMAN]

Supply and Demand....period...