Domestic Terrorists

[MtnBiker]

Incendiary devices placed at Nestle bottling plant
(09-24) 17:00 PDT MARTINY TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) --

Four incendiary devices were found inside a pumping station for a water-bottling plant owned by a subsidiary of Nestle S.A., and a radical environmental group said it was responsible.

Plastic bottles containing a flammable liquid were discovered Monday by Ice Mountain Spring Water Co. workers. No one was hurt removing the bottles, and water monitored at the plant showed no signs of tampering.

Company spokeswoman Deb Wudyka said Wednesday the liquid apparently was meant to start a fire rather than cause an explosion.

The Earth Liberation Front claimed responsibility, accusing Ice Mountain of stealing well water for profit.

Ice Mountain is a division of Greenwich, Conn.-based Nestle Waters North America Inc., formerly Perrier Group of America Inc.

ELF has claimed responsibility for many arson fires at housing construction sites in the West and Midwest.

"Clean water is one of the most fundamental necessities and no one can be allowed to privatize it, commodify it, and try and sell it back to us," the group said in a statement.

Wudyka declined to comment on the statement.

FBI spokeswoman Dawn Clenney said Wednesday that agents were following "a number of leads."


Link

A little dated but still interesting.

 

[jimnyc]

Lovely!

It's bad enough dealing with international terrorism based on our foreign policy, but now we have to watch out for the environmental wacko's too? And how is this supposed to help the environment?

These people aren't too bright.

 

[MtnBiker]

The "environmentalist" name is just a front. These people don't like capitalism.

 

[Aquarian]

yes, ELF has gone a bit around the bend. They started out as environmentalists and as mentioned have turned their anger against capitalism. They've been burning apartment buildings (under construction), bashing suv's and now this... While I may see some of their points I surely don't think the situation grave enough to condone this sort of response.

 

[5stringJeff]

There should be no difference is hunting down members of ELF or al-Qaeda. Both are terrorists, regardless of their adopted cause, and both deserve to be punished for their actions.

If ELF members are so concerned with the environment, they should organize politically (i.e. the Green Party) and do something about it.

 

[tybalt]

Are they really terrorists or just vandals? To compare the ELF to al Qaeda seems ridiculous since their tactics differ substantially. Who is more terrifying, a bunch of tree huggers who damage property, or the homicidal bombers who blow up airplanes and skyscrapers? What is really terrifying? The prospect of being blown apart or the prospect of filing an insurance claim to replace damaged property? I don't think the ELF miscreants should be given credit as terrorists. A kinder, gentler term is more appropriate. Maybe eco-vandals, eco-gremlins, Keebler rejects?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by tybalt
Are they really terrorists or just vandals? To compare the ELF to al Qaeda seems ridiculous since their tactics differ substantially. Who is more terrifying, a bunch of tree huggers who damage property, or the homicidal bombers who blow up airplanes and skyscrapers? What is really terrifying? The prospect of being blown apart or the prospect of filing an insurance claim to replace damaged property? I don't think the ELF miscreants should be given credit as terrorists. A kinder, gentler term is more appropriate. Maybe eco-vandals, eco-gremlins, Keebler rejects?

They threaten people with death unless they get their way. They use bombs and fires to instill fear in those that work in a manner they disagree with. This IS the definition of a terrorist.

 

[Bry]

I haven't seen where they are threatening people with death. And I haven't seen where anyone has died of their actions. My understanding is that they take care to aviod hurting anyone. They do damage property, and unless I'm wrong about their modus operandi, they would more appropriately be labeled vandals.

Jim, have you seen something about death threats that I haven't?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Bry
I haven't seen where they are threatening people with death. And I haven't seen where anyone has died of their actions. My understanding is that they take care to aviod hurting anyone. They do damage property, and unless I'm wrong about their modus operandi, they would more appropriately be labeled vandals.

Jim, have you seen something about death threats that I haven't?

"What will it take for the United States to recognize the clear and present danger that such groups present? The death of a McDonald's employee in a bombing, as occurred in France last year?"
http://www.consumerfreedom.com/oped_detail.cfm?OPED_ID=133

"In England, 10 research scientists who use animals in medical testing have been threatened with death."
http://search.csmonitor.com/durable/1999/01/20/p4s1.htm

 

[Bry]

Yeah, having read the articles, you wouldn't agree that there is an enormous difference between these groups and Al Qaeda?

They do go out of their way to insure that lives are not put in jeopardy. And death threats, unless they start acting on them, do not constitute terrorism: there must be some reason to believe that a death threat will be acted on, and until they act on one, that evidence doesn't exist.

I understand you don't like these activities, and I agreee that it is has gotten out of control: these people should be pursued like any other criminal. But it seems a great exaggeration to compare them to Al Qaeda, or any other "terrorist" group.

side note: The articles refer to death threats from ALF, and I was asking about death threats issued from ELF.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Bry
Yeah, having read the articles, you wouldn't agree that there is an enormous difference between these groups and Al Qaeda?

They do go out of their way to insure that lives are not put in jeopardy. And death threats, unless they start acting on them, do not constitute terrorism: there must be some reason to believe that a death threat will be acted on, and until they act on one, that evidence doesn't exist.

I understand you don't like these activities, and I agreee that it is has gotten out of control: these people should be pursued like any other criminal. But it seems a great exaggeration to compare them to Al Qaeda, or any other "terrorist" group.

All I stated is that they are in fact terrorists.

They might not be as extreme as Al Qaeda, but they meet the definition of a terrorist organization nonetheless.

When their "vandal" activities fail to yield their desired results, what will they do next? It's an escalating issue that needs to be stopped.

 

[Bry]

Yeah, this phenomenon is interesting. I myself have contemplated similar acts to what some in these "groups" have commited, in the same way that anyone angry or frustrated about something might idly contemplate such a thing. Seeing others actually carry it out, I am impressed by nothing more than the shere ineffectuality of such an approach. I'm not sure if these actions create more critical thought about how our society works, but i tend to think that they do not. If these causes are to gain any ground, it must be done by winning hearts and minds, and I don't think these activities do anything to that end. But like I said, I'm not sure. I can only say that this radicalization SEEMS to be detrimental to their causes.

 

[eric]

Allow me to post their introduction:

Meet the E.L.F.

The Earth Liberation Front is an international underground movement consisting of autonomous groups of people who carry out direct action according to the E.L.F. guidelines. Since 1997, E.L.F. cells have carried out dozens of actions resulting in close to $100 million in damages.

Modeled after the Animal Liberation Front, the E.L.F. is structured in such a way as to to maximize effectiveness. By operating in cells (small groups that consist of one to several people), the security of group members is maintained. Each cell is anonymous not only to the public but also to one another. This decentralized structure helps keep activists out of jail and free to continue conducting actions.

As the E.L.F. structure is non-hierarchical, individuals involved control their own activities. There is no a centralized organization or leadership tying the anonymous cells together. Likewise, there is no official "membership". Individuals who choose to do actions under the banner of the E.L.F are driven only by their personal conscience or decisions taken by their cell while adhering to the stated guidelines.

Who are the people carrying out these activities? Because involved individuals are anonymous, they could be anyone from any community. Parents, teachers, church volunteers, your neighbor, or even your partner could be involved. The exploitation and destruction of the environment affects all of us - some people enough to take direct action in defense of the earth.

Any direct action to halt the destruction of the environment and adhering to the strict nonviolence guidelines, listed below, can be considered an E.L.F. action. Economic sabotage and property destruction fall within these guidelines.

Earth Liberation Front Guidelines:


To inflict economic damage on those profitting from the destruction and exploitation of the natural environment.

To reveal and educate the public on the atrocities committed against the earth and all species that populate it.

To take all necessary precautions against harming any animal, human and non-human.

There is no way to contact the E.L.F. in your area. It is up to each committed person to take responsibility for stopping the exploitation of the natural world. No longer can it be assumed that someone else is going to do it. If not you who, if not now when?

 

[eric]

To take all necessary precautions against harming any animal, human and non-human.

Other than this statement, could you not replace E.L.F with Al queda ?

 

[eric]

Doesn't this just figure :

ELF domain registered with GANDI Registrar in France, and based out of Vancouver, British Columbia.

 

[Bry]

yeah, and in that statement I see a world of difference.

No doubt their style of organization mimics that of terrorist cells. That does not, to my mind mean that they are identical or should be treated by the same standards. It is mainly comments like jeff's that I have a problem with: "There should be no difference is hunting down members of ELF or al-Qaeda" Does that mean we should go to war? Bombarding? Should ELF suspects be sent to gitmo? Sorry, but the image is a bit funny.

 

[eric]

Does that mean we should go to war? Bombarding? Should ELF suspects be sent to gitmo?

No, just good old prison will do. No probation, no ACOD, no bullshit. These people are nothing but criminals and need to be dealt with as such.

 

[Bry]

and that is exactly how they are treated, (or would be if any of them were actually caught). Arson, I'm sure you know, is a felony.

 

[eric]

You know it is not their cause with which I have a problem, hell I would probably support many of their stances. My problem is when individuals and organizations take matters of justice into their own hands, I condem the police for this as well as these people.

 

[Bry]

And I applaud you for your even handed consideration of the facts and the consistency with which you apply your standards. We are in agreement!