DOJ to Colorado Family: Give Up Your Religion or Your Business

[Jroc]

And an employer who is a Muslim may prohibit coverage for those who eat pork? Jehovah's Witness refuse to cover blood transfusions? A Baptist employer refuse coverage for alcohol related illnesses? And, it is to be hoped, some faiths refuse to pay the medical costs of gluttony also.

No, but if he does not want to provide pork to his employees that should be his right. Pork is not normally medical treatment but a convenience for those who want to have it. Just as contraceptives are not normally a medical necessity but a convenience for those who want it included in their insurance coverage. Abortion as a life saving medical necessity should never be excluded, but nobody should have to cover abortion for convenience if they do not wish to. Anybody should absolutely have the right to choose what will or will not be covered as an optional choice. Blood transfusions would be more problematic as they are almost always critical as a life saving treatment and I can't imagine any insurance company that would be willing to exclude them from coverage.

The operative word here is optional. If it is not necessary, it is optional.

"Optional" is a matter of perspective, isn't it? I destroyed my left knee slipping on some ice, but the insurance company considered it "elective" surgery and fought me every step of the way. Made me waste about six months on physical therapy that was useless.

It's bad enough we let them screw us around on the basis of greed, but now we are going to throw religious stupidity into the mix?

You can't fight the government if they control your healthcare idiot, and if your knee was "destroyed" then you would need physical therapy

 

[Inthemiddle]

The Justice Department last week presented the Newland family of Colorado--who own Hercules Industries, a heating, ventilation and air-conditioning business--with what amounted to an ultimatum: Give up your religion or your business.

“Hercules Industries has ‘made no showing of a religious belief which requires that [it] engage in the [HVAC] business,” the Justice Department said in a formal filing in the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado.

In response to the Justice Department’s argument that the Newlands can either give up practicing their religion or give up owning their business, the Alliance Defending Freedom, which is representing the family, said in a reply brief: "[T]o the extent the government is arguing that its mandate does not really burden the Newlands because they are free to abandon their jobs, their livelihoods, and their property so that others can take over Hercules and comply, this expulsion from business would be an extreme form of government burden.”

DOJ to Colorado Family: Give Up Your Religion or Your Business | CNSNews.com

Actually, no such ultimatum is being given. These people are being expected to abide by the law, which requires that health coverage be provided as part of the compensation in an employment relationship. Nothing therein requires the Newlands to give up their religion.

 

[Jroc]

The Justice Department last week presented the Newland family of Colorado--who own Hercules Industries, a heating, ventilation and air-conditioning business--with what amounted to an ultimatum: Give up your religion or your business.

“Hercules Industries has ‘made no showing of a religious belief which requires that [it] engage in the [HVAC] business,” the Justice Department said in a formal filing in the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado.

In response to the Justice Department’s argument that the Newlands can either give up practicing their religion or give up owning their business, the Alliance Defending Freedom, which is representing the family, said in a reply brief: "[T]o the extent the government is arguing that its mandate does not really burden the Newlands because they are free to abandon their jobs, their livelihoods, and their property so that others can take over Hercules and comply, this expulsion from business would be an extreme form of government burden.”

DOJ to Colorado Family: Give Up Your Religion or Your Business | CNSNews.com

Actually, no such ultimatum is being given. These people are being expected to abide by the law, which requires that health coverage be provided as part of the compensation in an employment relationship. Nothing therein requires the Newlands to give up their religion.

Abortion pills are not "health care"

 

[Inthemiddle]

DOJ to Colorado Family: Give Up Your Religion or Your Business | CNSNews.com

Actually, no such ultimatum is being given. These people are being expected to abide by the law, which requires that health coverage be provided as part of the compensation in an employment relationship. Nothing therein requires the Newlands to give up their religion.

Abortion pills are not "health care"

Unicorns are not health care either. What's your point?

 

[Jroc]

Actually, no such ultimatum is being given. These people are being expected to abide by the law, which requires that health coverage be provided as part of the compensation in an employment relationship. Nothing therein requires the Newlands to give up their religion.

Abortion pills are not "health care"

Unicorns are not health care either. What's your point?

Religious freedom

 

[Inthemiddle]

Abortion pills are not "health care"

Unicorns are not health care either. What's your point?

Religious freedom

What does religious freedom have to do imaginary things, like unicorns or abortion pills?

 

[Jroc]

Unicorns are not health care either. What's your point?

Religious freedom

What does religious freedom have to do imaginary things, like unicorns or abortion pills?

Abortions are against the Cathlics beliefs and they should not be forced to fund them

 

[Moonglow]

A company can't make it's employees live by their religion.

 

[Jroc]

A company can't make it's employees live by their religion.

They also cannot be forced to abandon their religious beliefs...Find another job if you don't like it

 

[Inthemiddle]

Religious freedom

What does religious freedom have to do imaginary things, like unicorns or abortion pills?

Abortions are against the Cathlics beliefs and they should not be forced to fund them

Go take a nap and come back when you have something relevant to say.

 

[Jroc]

What does religious freedom have to do imaginary things, like unicorns or abortion pills?

Abortions are against the Cathlics beliefs and they should not be forced to fund them

Go take a nap and come back when you have something relevant to say.

Thanks for your contribution to this thread...I think thats what it was

 

[Inthemiddle]

Abortions are against the Cathlics beliefs and they should not be forced to fund them

Go take a nap and come back when you have something relevant to say.

Thanks for your contribution to this thread...I think thats what it was

Thus far, you've failed to contribute anything. You just keep babbling on making scantly, if at all, connected comments, that lead to no particular logical conclusion.

 

[JoeB131]

No, but if he does not want to provide pork to his employees that should be his right. Pork is not normally medical treatment but a convenience for those who want to have it. Just as contraceptives are not normally a medical necessity but a convenience for those who want it included in their insurance coverage. Abortion as a life saving medical necessity should never be excluded, but nobody should have to cover abortion for convenience if they do not wish to. Anybody should absolutely have the right to choose what will or will not be covered as an optional choice. Blood transfusions would be more problematic as they are almost always critical as a life saving treatment and I can't imagine any insurance company that would be willing to exclude them from coverage.

The operative word here is optional. If it is not necessary, it is optional.

"Optional" is a matter of perspective, isn't it? I destroyed my left knee slipping on some ice, but the insurance company considered it "elective" surgery and fought me every step of the way. Made me waste about six months on physical therapy that was useless.

It's bad enough we let them screw us around on the basis of greed, but now we are going to throw religious stupidity into the mix?

You can't fight the government if they control your healthcare idiot, and if your knee was "destroyed" then you would need physical therapy

The point was, the physical therapy didn't correct the underlying problem, that my miniscus was destroyed and had to be repaired. The day after the surgery, I was walking just fine. Was able to get rid of the cane I had been using for months up to that point.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And an employer who is a Muslim may prohibit coverage for those who eat pork? Jehovah's Witness refuse to cover blood transfusions? A Baptist employer refuse coverage for alcohol related illnesses? And, it is to be hoped, some faiths refuse to pay the medical costs of gluttony also.

No, but if he does not want to provide pork to his employees that should be his right. Pork is not normally medical treatment but a convenience for those who want to have it. Just as contraceptives are not normally a medical necessity but a convenience for those who want it included in their insurance coverage. Abortion as a life saving medical necessity should never be excluded, but nobody should have to cover abortion for convenience if they do not wish to. Anybody should absolutely have the right to choose what will or will not be covered as an optional choice. Blood transfusions would be more problematic as they are almost always critical as a life saving treatment and I can't imagine any insurance company that would be willing to exclude them from coverage.

The operative word here is optional. If it is not necessary, it is optional.

"Optional" is a matter of perspective, isn't it? I destroyed my left knee slipping on some ice, but the insurance company considered it "elective" surgery and fought me every step of the way. Made me waste about six months on physical therapy that was useless.

It's bad enough we let them screw us around on the basis of greed, but now we are going to throw religious stupidity into the mix?

Doctors define elective surgery as anything that is scheduled in advance because it does not involve an emergency? You knee was elective surgery, if you fought them over the definition you lost.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A company can't make it's employees live by their religion.

Guess what, employees cannot make the company they work for live by theirs either.

 

[Borillar]

The Justice Department last week presented the Newland family of Colorado--who own Hercules Industries, a heating, ventilation and air-conditioning business--with what amounted to an ultimatum: Give up your religion or your business.

“Hercules Industries has ‘made no showing of a religious belief which requires that [it] engage in the [HVAC] business,” the Justice Department said in a formal filing in the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado.

In response to the Justice Department’s argument that the Newlands can either give up practicing their religion or give up owning their business, the Alliance Defending Freedom, which is representing the family, said in a reply brief: "[T]o the extent the government is arguing that its mandate does not really burden the Newlands because they are free to abandon their jobs, their livelihoods, and their property so that others can take over Hercules and comply, this expulsion from business would be an extreme form of government burden.”

DOJ to Colorado Family: Give Up Your Religion or Your Business | CNSNews.com

great misrepresentation of what the filing says.
'
reality: a secular for-profit business has no religious exemption from complying with law.

why do you hate this country?

i think you should go live in a theocracy.

Indeed. The "Holy rollers" only need to provide these services to their employees. If the employees are also "Holy rollers", they don't have to avail themselves of those services.

 

[GuyPinestra]

The Justice Department last week presented the Newland family of Colorado--who own Hercules Industries, a heating, ventilation and air-conditioning business--with what amounted to an ultimatum: Give up your religion or your business.

“Hercules Industries has ‘made no showing of a religious belief which requires that [it] engage in the [HVAC] business,” the Justice Department said in a formal filing in the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado.

In response to the Justice Department’s argument that the Newlands can either give up practicing their religion or give up owning their business, the Alliance Defending Freedom, which is representing the family, said in a reply brief: "[T]o the extent the government is arguing that its mandate does not really burden the Newlands because they are free to abandon their jobs, their livelihoods, and their property so that others can take over Hercules and comply, this expulsion from business would be an extreme form of government burden.”

DOJ to Colorado Family: Give Up Your Religion or Your Business | CNSNews.com

Actually, no such ultimatum is being given. These people are being expected to abide by the law, which requires that health coverage be provided as part of the compensation in an employment relationship. Nothing therein requires the Newlands to give up their religion.

They're being 'required' to act in a way that is diametrically opposed to their religious beliefs.

Straight 1st Amendment violation, as well as a pretty shitty thing to try and do.

 

[Noomi]

Religious freedom

What does religious freedom have to do imaginary things, like unicorns or abortion pills?

Abortions are against the Cathlics beliefs and they should not be forced to fund them

They are not paying for them.

 

[JoeB131]

No, but if he does not want to provide pork to his employees that should be his right. Pork is not normally medical treatment but a convenience for those who want to have it. Just as contraceptives are not normally a medical necessity but a convenience for those who want it included in their insurance coverage. Abortion as a life saving medical necessity should never be excluded, but nobody should have to cover abortion for convenience if they do not wish to. Anybody should absolutely have the right to choose what will or will not be covered as an optional choice. Blood transfusions would be more problematic as they are almost always critical as a life saving treatment and I can't imagine any insurance company that would be willing to exclude them from coverage.

The operative word here is optional. If it is not necessary, it is optional.

"Optional" is a matter of perspective, isn't it? I destroyed my left knee slipping on some ice, but the insurance company considered it "elective" surgery and fought me every step of the way. Made me waste about six months on physical therapy that was useless.

It's bad enough we let them screw us around on the basis of greed, but now we are going to throw religious stupidity into the mix?

Doctors define elective surgery as anything that is scheduled in advance because it does not involve an emergency? You knee was elective surgery, if you fought them over the definition you lost.

Actually, the doctors wanted to do the surgery. It was the insurance company and my company that fought me every step of the way.

And oddly, when the recession hit in 2008, the first people they let go? Those of us who had major medical issues in the previous years.

I took the severance package because I already had a new job lined up, but one of the others is suing the crap out of them for age and medical discrimination.

 

[nitroz]

They should do that to Chick-Fil-A, tbh.