Does giving land for the Arab "Palestinians" bring "peace?"

[ESay]

Before talking about "their land", teach Arab imperialists how to pronounce it.

Though, they can easily say the name of your country.

I don't care about their pronunciation. I don't think that 'Palestine' can be created as a separate state in the 1967 borders.

 

[WelfareQueen]

It is now called land concessions? It is their land and was theirs. How you 'concede' something that doesn't belong to you?

The only nation that comes into my mind with possible fighting with this 'imperialism' is the Kurds.

Wrong. Islam as a faith wants to be respected. Correct? That's what Obama and people like you say. Well Judaism is a faith that is the basis of both Christianity and Islam. Should it not be respected as well? And In the Torah it says Israel is Jewish land and has been for thousands of years. Why do people like you demand respect for Islam but have no respect for the Jewish people and their faith.

Also, there has never been a Nation of Palestine. It has never been the Palestinians land. Never. Jews have lived in the Holy Land for centuries prior to there ever being a faith called Islam or Palestinians. Try again.


Ropey, I am sending out the bat signal. Your input would be appreciated.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Does giving land for the Arab "Palestinians" bring "peace?"
SUBTOPIC: Is it a Reasonable Belief? - or - Is it a Hypothetical Fiction?
※→ et al,

(QUESTIONS)

✦ Do the Arab Palestinians have a past history of honoring their word?

✦ There is no reason to believe that any concession made in favor of the Arab Palestinian will bring a peaceful outcome?

✦ Is there any reason to believe that Arab Palestinians have a central government that has the authority to make an agreement with the Israelis and is able to enforce it across the entire spectrum of terrorist factions?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[WelfareQueen]

RE: Does giving land for the Arab "Palestinians" bring "peace?"
SUBTOPIC: Is it a Reasonable Belief? - or - Is it a Hypothetical Fiction?
※→ et al,

(QUESTIONS)

✦ Do the Arab Palestinians have a past history of honoring their word?

✦ There is no reason to believe that any concession made in favor of the Arab Palestinian will bring a peaceful outcome?

✦ Is there any reason to believe that Arab Palestinians have a central government that has the authority to make an agreement with the Israelis and is able to enforce it across the entire spectrum of terrorist factions?

View attachment 856245
Most Respectfully,
R

At the inception of the Jewish State in 1948 the UN brokered an agreement to share the land half and half between Jews and the Palestinians. The Jews agreed to share the land. The date was May 14th, 1948. The Arabs went to war the next day with the goal to exterminate the Jews and the Jewish State. Key Quote:


"On 14 May 1948, the day before the expiration of the British Mandate, David Ben-Gurion, the head of the Jewish Agency, declared "the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel."[170][171] The only reference in the text of the Declaration to the borders of the new state is the use of the term Eretz-Israel ("Land of Israel").[172] The following day, the armies of four Arab countries—Egypt, Syria, Transjordan and Iraq—entered into parts of what had been British Mandatory Palestine, launching the 1948 Arab–Israeli War;[173][

History of Israel (1948–present) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So to answer your question, no there is zero evidence the Arabs have ever wanted a two-state solution or will in anyway ever share the land. Why that is not obvious when Hamas has as its mission statement to drive the Jews into the sea (i.e. genocide of the Jewish people and the Jewish State).

So your questions are reasonable and well stated. I believe you have your answer.

 

[ESay]

Wrong. Islam as a faith wants to be respected. Correct? That's what Obama and people like you say. Well Judaism is a faith that is the basis of both Christianity and Islam. Should it not be respected as well? And In the Torah it says Israel is Jewish land and has been for thousands of years. Why do people like you demand respect for Islam but have no respect for the Jewish people and their faith.

Also, there has never been a Nation of Palestine. It has never been the Palestinians land. Never. Jews have lived in the Holy Land for centuries prior to there ever being a faith called Islam or Palestinians. Try again.


Ropey, I am sending out the bat signal. Your input would be appreciated.

We are not here to discuss religious matters. There is another section on this forum where beliefs are discussed, their nuances, correlation with the modern time etc. Torah also says about stoning as a punishment. Some Jewish religious groups say that Torah directly forbids the state of Israel as it was created 70 years ago. So, let's just stop here with that.

It does not matter whether there was such nation as 'Palestine' or not. Some time ago, in not too distant past, there were not such nation as 'Americans', many East European and Asian nations etc. People who apply this way of reasoning are more fit for a kindergarten's playground than a political board.

There was the Arabs there. Is their centuries long history in that region enough to say they 'were' there? You can call them Palestinians or Gazans or Jordanians or Arabs, that doesn't change a thing.

When all this story started, this land was supposed to be divided in two parts - Jewish state and Arab/Muslim state. Yes, the Arabs rejected this plan, and they won't have their state with proposed 1948 borders. It is quite likely, they won't have the 1967 borders, either.

But if your plan is to expel them or 'push them to the sea', then be ready for the entire Middle East turning into 'Hamas'.

 

[WelfareQueen]

We are not here to discuss religious matters. There is another section on this forum where beliefs are discussed, their nuances, correlation with the modern time etc. Torah also says about stoning as a punishment. Some Jewish religious groups say that Torah directly forbids the state of Israel as it was created 70 years ago. So, let's just stop here with that.

It does not matter whether there was such nation as 'Palestine' or not. Some time ago, in not too distant past, there were not such nation as 'Americans', many East European and Asian nations etc. People who apply this way of reasoning are more fit for a kindergarten's playground than a political board.

There was the Arabs there. Is their centuries long history in that region enough to say they 'were' there? You can call them Palestinians or Gazans or Jordanians or Arabs, that doesn't change a thing.

When all this story started, this land was supposed to be divided in two parts - Jewish state and Arab/Muslim state. Yes, the Arabs rejected this plan, and they won't have their state with proposed 1948 borders. It is quite likely, they won't have the 1967 borders, either.

But if your plan is to expel them or 'push them to the sea', then be ready for the entire Middle East turning into 'Hamas'.

Oh no, only the Arabs want to exterminate a race. My plan would be for the Arabs to stop killing Jews and live in peace. That is what any reasonable person wants. Don't you? Or do you want the Jewish People to unilaterally disarm, cede their land, and hope the Arabs will stop killing them? That seems to be the plan of the American and European Left. Where do you stand?

 

[ESay]

Oh no, only the Arabs want to exterminate a race. My plan would be for the Arabs to stop killing Jews and live in peace. That is what any reasonable person wants. Don't you? Or do you want the Jewish People to unilaterally disarm, cede their land, and hope the Arabs will stop killing them? That seems to be the plan of the American and European Left. Where do you stand?

I believe in the right of Jewish people to have their own state and in the right of Israel to defend itself.

What to do with Gaza? I don't know. This question should be resolved as part of more complex question about other 'Palestinian' territories - the West Bank and Jerusalem status.

 

[WelfareQueen]

I believe in the right of Jewish people to have their own state and in the right of Israel to defend itself.

What to do with Gaza? I don't know. This question should be resolved as part of more complex question about other 'Palestinian' territories - the West Bank and Jerusalem status.

I agree with you that Israel has a right to defend itself and the Jewish State has a right to exist. My belief based on 70 years of history is the Palestinians do not want peace or a two-state solution. They have made that very, very clear. So, as a consequence, we have October 7th and its aftermath.

If maybe once Hamas or the Palestinians extended the olive branch, I would be more hopeful. But that has not and will not happen. So, we have what we have now. Based on those facts, the only option available to Israel that I can see is the total destruction of Hamas. Then, perhaps the Palestinian people will choose a better political organization to represent them. But I am very pessimistic about the situation.

 

[ESay]

I agree with you that Israel has a right to defend itself and the Jewish State has a right to exist. My belief based on 70 years of history is the Palestinians do not want peace or a two-state solution. They have made that very, very clear. So, as a consequence, we have October 7th and its aftermath.

If maybe once Hamas or the Palestinians extended the olive branch, I would be more hopeful. But that has not and will not happen. So, we have what we have now. Based on those facts, the only option available to Israel that I can see is the total destruction of Hamas. Then, perhaps the Palestinian people will choose a better political organization to represent them. But I am very pessimistic about the situation.

The Arabs rejected the partition plan proposed in 1947. And they made it quite clear. And yes, basically, Palestine for them is that territory as a whole.

Don't ask me how to resolve this highly complicated issue. I don't know. But what I will tell you is the Gaza issue is less complicated comparing with the West Bank and especially Jerusalem. And the time will come when they will be raised also.

When Jews will try to take some bold actions in some parts of the city it can blow up all the Middle East and the Muslim world. The both sides should be 'persuaded' to compromize.

 

[Ropey]

Wrong. Islam as a faith wants to be respected. Correct? That's what Obama and people like you say. Well Judaism is a faith that is the basis of both Christianity and Islam. Should it not be respected as well? And In the Torah it says Israel is Jewish land and has been for thousands of years. Why do people like you demand respect for Islam but have no respect for the Jewish people and their faith.

Correct. They never answer why, they just demand "from the river to the sea".

Also, there has never been a Nation of Palestine. It has never been the Palestinians land. Never. Jews have lived in the Holy Land for centuries prior to there ever being a faith called Islam or Palestinians. Try again.

Syria-Palestina ... as a partition, never as a nation was created by the Roman Emperor in the 2nd century CE, the Romans, led by Titus, crushed the revolt of Shimon Bar Kokhba (132 CE), during which Jerusalem and Judea were regained and the area of Judea was renamed to 'Palaestina' in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel.

When Rome fell, so did the partition.

Ropey, I am sending out the bat signal. Your input would be appreciated.

A done deal.

tia

 

[Ropey]

I agree with you that Israel has a right to defend itself and the Jewish State has a right to exist. My belief based on 70 years of history is the Palestinians do not want peace or a two-state solution.

The Khartoum Resolution of 1 September 1967 was issued at the conclusion of the 1967 Arab League summit, which was convened in Khartoum, the capital of Sudan, in the wake of the Six-Day War. The resolution is famous for containing (in the third paragraph) what became known as the "Three Noes" or the "The Three Noes of Khartoum".

They have made that very, very clear. So, as a consequence, we have October 7th and its aftermath.

And they continue to make it clear.

Hamas terrorist phoned home Oct. 7 to tell his parents: “I killed 10 with my own hands! Dad, 10 with my own hands!”

One month after Hamas exacted the bloodiest day for Jews since the Holocaust, it is worth remembering its mission is wickedly simple: kill Jews.

Just listen to the terrorists themselves.

Hamas leaders aimed to use the Oct. 7 massacre to “set off a sustained conflict that ends any pretense of coexistence among Israel, Gaza and the countries around them,” The New York Times reported after interviewing them.

“I hope that the state of war with Israel will become permanent on all the borders, and that the Arab world will stand with us,” Taher El-Nounou, a Hamas media adviser, declared.

As the Times put it, the attack put an end to the idea Hamas is “a governing body” — it’s “still fundamentally an armed force, unrelentingly committed to destroying Israel and replacing it with an Islamist Palestinian state.”

No one can deny Hamas’ aim is to kill Jews — it fully admits it

Gushing with pride, a Hamas terrorist phoned home Oct. 7 to tell his parents: “I killed 10 with my own hands! Dad, 10 with my own hands!” One month after Hamas...

www.fdd.org

If maybe once Hamas or the Palestinians extended the olive branch, I would be more hopeful. But that has not and will not happen. So, we have what we have now. Based on those facts, the only option available to Israel that I can see is the total destruction of Hamas. Then, perhaps the Palestinian people will choose a better political organization to represent them. But I am very pessimistic about the situation.

The left demands death. They pay for it and watch it while the Hamas enter Israel to rape, terorrize and murder Jews, babies, mothers, etc.

While all over the world, evil rejoices.

Israel/Palestine: Videos of Hamas-Led Attacks Verified

Human Rights Watch has verified four videos from the October 7, 2023, attacks by Hamas-led gunmen, showing three incidents of deliberate killings, and presents this analysis in a video published today. The attacks should be investigated as war crimes.

www.hrw.org

 

[Ropey]

Oh no, only the Arabs want to exterminate a race.

Understanding Hamas’s Genocidal Ideology

A close read of Hamas’s founding documents clearly shows its intentions.

www.theatlantic.com

“Not every German who bought a copy of Mein Kampf necessarily read it … But it might be argued that had more non-Nazi Germans read it before 1933 and had the foreign statesmen of the world perused it carefully while there was still time, both Germany and the world might have been saved from catastrophe.” — William L. Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich

 

[rylah]

I don't care about their pronunciation. I don't think that 'Palestine' can be created as a separate state in the 1967 borders.

What is the point in forcing a state onto people who seek only to reject any responsibility,
and create problems for themselves, only to blame Israel and fuel violence?

These people need either to submit or to go.

There're enough failing Arab colonies,
no need or reason for another one,
especially after failing for so long.

 

[task0778]

IMHO, the Palestinians will not stop their attacks on Israel until that nation does not exist and every last Jew is dead. They only want a 2-state solution as a step towards a 1-state solution with them in charge and no more Jews.

 

[ESay]

What is the point in forcing a state onto people who seek only to reject any responsibility,
and create problems for themselves, only to blame Israel and fuel violence?

These people need either to submit or to go.

There're enough failing Arab colonies,
no need or reason for another one,
especially after failing for so long.

What does the word 'submit' mean in this context?

I firmly believe that the only way for Israel to achieve a long-term peace is creating some form of alliance with some of Arab countries. It is impossible to do without resolving the Palestinian issue in more or less appropriate form for them.

 

[rylah]

What does the word 'submit' mean in this context?

I firmly believe that the only way for Israel to achieve a long-term peace is creating some form of alliance with some of Arab countries. It is impossible to do without resolving the Palestinian issue in more or less appropriate form for them.

If Putin supports a bunch of barbarians who beheaded your children

you parrot these talking points and reward them with a state?

 

[ESay]

If Putin supports a bunch of barbarians who beheaded your children

you parrot these talking points and reward them with a state?

At least I admit the simple fact that the Putin regime can't be defeated militarily in this war and no one will fight our war for us.

 

[rylah]

At least I admit the simple fact that the Putin regime can't be defeated militarily in this war and no one will fight our war for us.

Maybe you need to admit that a human body cannot sustain without a heart,
but it will live without an extra nail or a foreskin. Cultures are like that.

Everyone understands the scope of the situation, that's why
even Ukrainians now jump into trying to calm it down,
you know your conflict, is not the critical mass.

 

[rylah]

What does the word 'submit' mean in this context?

Submit to Israeli sovereignty,
through 7 Noahide laws.

In practice,
pay taxes and
join the workforce,
adhere to the laws of the land,
and basic principles of human morality.

 

[ESay]

Maybe you need to admit that a human body cannot sustain without a heart,
but it will live without an extra nail or a foreskin. Cultures are like that.

Everyone understands the scope of the situation, that's why
even Ukrainians now jump into trying to calm it down,
you know your conflict, is not the critical mass.

Not sure I get what you were trying to say here. If you're talking about me specifically, you should already know I was interested in the Middle East matters long before the current war started.