Does everyone understand the tax issue?

[JRK]

tarp and GM loans were paid back with interest

GM loans ?
Gm loans?

there only about 50 billion short
Adding Up the Auto Bailout: $80 Billion and Growing - TIME
there is 80 billion with Chrysler
GMAC gets 17 billion, thats now about 100 billion
Grassley: GM Uses ‘TARP Money Shuffle’ to Pay Loans - Washington Wire - WSJ
theres the 6 billion tarp to pay back tarp
now we are at 105 billion
msnbc.com business - Treasury made $11.7 billion in GM stock sale
there is your stock sale
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/business/11tarp.html

11.7 billion

now where did we get the other 90 billion

I have proved to you thru links they are into us for 100 billion +
find the links where they paid us back

STOP LYING

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Revenue?
Raising taxes on corporations whether it be Exxon or Ma and Pas Bakery only means the consumer will pay more for the product

We are at a point in this country in which we must curtail spending
The middle class is squeezed all it can stand, and if you make 200,000 a year and give up 70,000 a year in income tax

Your giving up enough

No, no they don't. In some people's world, when business is off, they'd raise their prices.

 

[JRK]

8537
your on ignore for the same reason green beard is about to be
Yes I was wrong about the tax bracket of the person who makes 200,000
I am man enough to admit that 1 out of 1000 threads I was wrong
I corrected it
I moved on

You Liberal cannot get thru the day without being a dick
god bless

 

[Avorysuds]

Revenue?
Raising taxes on corporations whether it be Exxon or Ma and Pas Bakery only means the consumer will pay more for the product

Does it?

We are at a point in this country in which we must curtail spending
The middle class is squeezed all it can stand, and if you make 200,000 a year and give up 70,000 a year in income tax

Your giving up enough

Yes we need to stop our masters from spending dough that makes them rich and leaving us with the debts, I quite agree.

How?

Certainly you cannot think that supporting either the GOP or the Dems is going to accomplish that, can you?

Ron Paul... but well, he has no chance and is crazy right?

Small Government can't be the answer because that would mean Government has less of your money to spend, waste and hand out to rich people... But that's just crazy, right?

Remember, if it all feels hopeless don't vote... that will assure a typical Dem/Rep get into office and you can at least say "hey, I didn't for vote for that asshole!"

Then when you're getting screwed and live in a never ending depression or recession you can say "Hey, I didn't vote for that asshole!"

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

tarp and GM loans were paid back with interest

GM loans ?
Gm loans?

there only about 50 billion short
Adding Up the Auto Bailout: $80 Billion and Growing - TIME
there is 80 billion with Chrysler
GMAC gets 17 billion, thats now about 100 billion
Grassley: GM Uses ‘TARP Money Shuffle’ to Pay Loans - Washington Wire - WSJ
theres the 6 billion tarp to pay back tarp
now we are at 105 billion
msnbc.com business - Treasury made $11.7 billion in GM stock sale
there is your stock sale
TARP Oversight Panel Finds Fault With GMAC Bailouts - NYTimes.com

11.7 billion

now where did we get the other 90 billion

I have proved to you thru links they are into us for 100 billion +
find the links where they paid us back

STOP LYING

Not to mention, afetr all that... GM STILL has billions in unfunded pension liabilities.

This was short term fix intent on keeping t the union rank and file employed. Believe you me, this will replay in just a few short years.

 

[8537]

8537
your on ignore for the same reason green beard is about to be
Yes I was wrong about the tax bracket of the person who makes 200,000
I am man enough to admit that 1 out of 1000 threads I was wrong
I corrected it
I moved on

You Liberal cannot get thru the day without being a dick
god bless

Your "correction" was still wrong. again.

a person making 200,000 in labor income who takes NO deductions, doesn't bother to even claim the standard deduction, would pay 50,897 in federal income taxes, an effective tax rate of just over 25.4%. It is painfully obvious to anyone reading this thread that you don't understand the concept of marginal tax rates.

A person making 65K per year who pays 12K should get a Thank You letter for your generous donation to the Treasury dept.

 

[Toro]

That does not include state or local income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, etc etc.
He could easily be paying $70k or more.

Yes, by "give up 70,000 a year in income tax" he clearly was talking about property and sales taxes.

He multiplied a $200,000 income by 0.35 because he doesn't know how tax brackets work (or, apparently, where they begin). Spotting someone who doesn't know what the hell they're talking about isn't rocket science.

Its pretty common. Have you noticed the recent "Clinton never ran a surplus" meme on here lately too?

 

[Avorysuds]

You can't be the most militarist nation in the world, the world's free of charge policeman and defender,

AND have a 21st century domestic socio-economic structure (a social safety net, modern infrastructure, etc.)

AND be a low tax nation, without going deeply into debt and eventually bankrupt. It is mathematically impossible.

But that is what we've been trying to do since 1980.

Your taxes are lower than they've ever been and our debt is higher than it's ever been because of the above.

So the answer is shrink Government... Stop fighting wars and protecting other countries and cut useless programs here at home and let people take care of themselves. Or wait, we could always raise taxes 50% on all rich people and still not cover 5% of that bill........................................................... Then have rich leave the country in droves, jobs being lost at a rate never seen in the history of the world. Or you can raise taxes 1% on the rich and not even take care of 1% of the bill.

 

[8537]

tarp and GM loans were paid back with interest

GM loans ?
Gm loans?

there only about 50 billion short
Adding Up the Auto Bailout: $80 Billion and Growing - TIME
there is 80 billion with Chrysler
GMAC gets 17 billion, thats now about 100 billion
Grassley: GM Uses ‘TARP Money Shuffle’ to Pay Loans - Washington Wire - WSJ
theres the 6 billion tarp to pay back tarp
now we are at 105 billion
msnbc.com business - Treasury made $11.7 billion in GM stock sale
there is your stock sale
TARP Oversight Panel Finds Fault With GMAC Bailouts - NYTimes.com

11.7 billion

now where did we get the other 90 billion

I have proved to you thru links they are into us for 100 billion +
find the links where they paid us back

STOP LYING

GM doesn't owe the government any more TARP funds. The government LOANS to GM have been repaid. The remaining portion of that deal was an equity stake, so saying "GM owes the government" would be the equivalent of saying "the owners of the company owe the owners of the company".

 

[JRK]

tarp and GM loans were paid back with interest

GM loans ?
Gm loans?

there only about 50 billion short
Adding Up the Auto Bailout: $80 Billion and Growing - TIME
there is 80 billion with Chrysler
GMAC gets 17 billion, thats now about 100 billion
Grassley: GM Uses ‘TARP Money Shuffle’ to Pay Loans - Washington Wire - WSJ
theres the 6 billion tarp to pay back tarp
now we are at 105 billion
msnbc.com business - Treasury made $11.7 billion in GM stock sale
there is your stock sale
TARP Oversight Panel Finds Fault With GMAC Bailouts - NYTimes.com

11.7 billion

now where did we get the other 90 billion

I have proved to you thru links they are into us for 100 billion +
find the links where they paid us back

STOP LYING

Not to mention, afetr all that... GM STILL has billions in unfunded pension liabilities.

This was short term fix intent on keeping t the union rank and file employed. Believe you me, this will replay in just a few short years.

What I cannot understand is why the liberal supports these lies
Its our money there doing this stuff with
lying about it

If you take every penny GM is worth there still billions short
the spin is 14 billion
THURSDAY, JUNE 2, 2011
Taxpayers To Lose Only $14 Billion on GM Bailout?
To begin with, that's a lot of money. And I don't believe that number. I think before we consider some of my points below, to take that number based on Geithner's calculations and proclamations would be more than just pure faith-based naivete, it would be ignorance. That number, before looking at my add-ons below, is no doubt a lot higher than $14 billion (unless of course you put faith in Government-reported numbers).

Here's the news LINK NOT included, I'm sure, in this estimate is the amount of money that was spent to subsidize the financing of autos produced by GM that have flooded the floor of the GM dealer network PLUS the money spent to subsidize the purchase and leasing of these vehicles by the consumer. As an example, and this is well-known to those who observe the news and the facts, the cost of leasing a GM vehicle has been completely subsidized by the U.S. Government. This is accomplished by the Government guaranteeing the "residual value" component of all GM auto leases, enabling the finance company, Ally aka GMAC, to create a lease with an unrealistically high residual value - the value at the end of the lease term, which thereby allows the lessor, GMAC, to create a lease with lower monthly payments and a much lower implied interest rate. But then what happens at the end of the lease when the market value of the used car is substantially lower than the residual value guaranteed by the lease? The Government, aka the Taxpayer, ponies up the difference. We won't know what the final tab is to the Taxpayer on this subsidy clusterfu$k until the leases start expiring, but it will run into the billions. That's just one example. There's also the implicit guarantee of workforce entitlement and benefit plans. Again, billions not included in the $14 billion. It's insane.
The Golden Truth: Taxpayers To Lose Only $14 Billion on GM Bailout?


but I think thats based on a 50 dollar a share sell price

I have no idea, I do know there into us with GMAC well over 70 billion
and the stock sale got us 11.7 billion

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

tarp and GM loans were paid back with interest

GM loans ?
Gm loans?

there only about 50 billion short
Adding Up the Auto Bailout: $80 Billion and Growing - TIME
there is 80 billion with Chrysler
GMAC gets 17 billion, thats now about 100 billion
Grassley: GM Uses ‘TARP Money Shuffle’ to Pay Loans - Washington Wire - WSJ
theres the 6 billion tarp to pay back tarp
now we are at 105 billion
msnbc.com business - Treasury made $11.7 billion in GM stock sale
there is your stock sale
TARP Oversight Panel Finds Fault With GMAC Bailouts - NYTimes.com

11.7 billion

now where did we get the other 90 billion

I have proved to you thru links they are into us for 100 billion +
find the links where they paid us back

STOP LYING

GM doesn't owe the government any more TARP funds. The government LOANS to GM have been repaid. The remaining portion of that deal was an equity stake, so saying "GM owes the government" would be the equivalent of saying "the owners of the company owe the owners of the company".

GM paid back the loans with TARP money. It was all a scam.

 

[JRK]

You can't be the most militarist nation in the world, the world's free of charge policeman and defender,

AND have a 21st century domestic socio-economic structure (a social safety net, modern infrastructure, etc.)

AND be a low tax nation, without going deeply into debt and eventually bankrupt. It is mathematically impossible.

But that is what we've been trying to do since 1980.

Your taxes are lower than they've ever been and our debt is higher than it's ever been because of the above.

So the answer is shrink Government... Stop fighting wars and protecting other countries and cut useless programs here at home and let people take care of themselves. Or wait, we could always raise taxes 50% on all rich people and still not cover 5% of that bill........................................................... Then have rich leave the country in droves, jobs being lost at a rate never seen in the history of the world. Or you can raise taxes 1% on the rich and not even take care of 1% of the bill.

You understand
Its a serious problem this country faces
Jobs
Jobs Jobs

we have got to get some jobs going

 

[Toro]

That does not include state or local income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, etc etc.
He could easily be paying $70k or more.

Yes, by "give up 70,000 a year in income tax" he clearly was talking about property and sales taxes.

He multiplied a $200,000 income by 0.35 because he doesn't know how tax brackets work (or, apparently, where they begin). Spotting someone who doesn't know what the hell they're talking about isn't rocket science.

I do not know how the tax bracket works?
so 33% vs 35% is what we need to be debating?
66,000 vs 70,000?
I am deeply sorry, but as usual you have nothing to offer in the debate
011 Federal Tax Tables
Federal Income Tax
SINGLE RATE JOINT RATE
$0 - $8,500

10.00%
$0 - $17,000

10.00%
$8,501- $34,500

15.00%
$17,001 - $69,000

15.00%
$34,501- $83,600

25.00%
$69,001- $139,350

25.00%
$83,601- $174,400

28.00%
$139,351- $212,300

28.00%
$174,401 - $379,150

33.00%
$212,301- $379,150

33.00%
$379,151 & OVER

35.00%
$379,151 & OVER

35.00%

I do not know what I am talking about?
then go away and leave us alone who know what we are talking about

Dude, really.

I'd strongly suggest you hire an accountant to do your taxes.

 

[JRK]

That does not include state or local income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, etc etc.
He could easily be paying $70k or more.

Yes, by "give up 70,000 a year in income tax" he clearly was talking about property and sales taxes.

He multiplied a $200,000 income by 0.35 because he doesn't know how tax brackets work (or, apparently, where they begin). Spotting someone who doesn't know what the hell they're talking about isn't rocket science.

Its pretty common. Have you noticed the recent "Clinton never ran a surplus" meme on here lately too?

Toro I corrected my mistake
Our president after spending trillions more than we have created less than 20,000 jobs last month and the UE rate went up to 9.2%
Thats not going away Toro, and being stupid about an honest mistake will not change it

 

[8537]

Dude, really.

I'd strongly suggest you hire an accountant to do your taxes.

The poor guy paid $12,000 on $65,000 of income last year, according to himself! Even the most basic, free-of-charge E-file system will offer up the standard deduction. Nevermind that he's apparently paying taxes on any pre-tax contributions to health care, 401K etc....

 

[JRK]

Yes, by "give up 70,000 a year in income tax" he clearly was talking about property and sales taxes.

He multiplied a $200,000 income by 0.35 because he doesn't know how tax brackets work (or, apparently, where they begin). Spotting someone who doesn't know what the hell they're talking about isn't rocket science.

I do not know how the tax bracket works?
so 33% vs 35% is what we need to be debating?
66,000 vs 70,000?
I am deeply sorry, but as usual you have nothing to offer in the debate
011 Federal Tax Tables
Federal Income Tax
SINGLE RATE JOINT RATE
$0 - $8,500

10.00%
$0 - $17,000

10.00%
$8,501- $34,500

15.00%
$17,001 - $69,000

15.00%
$34,501- $83,600

25.00%
$69,001- $139,350

25.00%
$83,601- $174,400

28.00%
$139,351- $212,300

28.00%
$174,401 - $379,150

33.00%
$212,301- $379,150

33.00%
$379,151 & OVER

35.00%
$379,151 & OVER

35.00%

I do not know what I am talking about?
then go away and leave us alone who know what we are talking about

Dude, really.

I'd strongly suggest you hire an accountant to do your taxes.

Dude, I do
what does any of your babble have to do with understanding why raising taxes is going to help?
and the table I provided, has a link
debate them, not me
Toro as a liberal your losing all respect
Tax Tables

 

[Toro]

Yes, by "give up 70,000 a year in income tax" he clearly was talking about property and sales taxes.

He multiplied a $200,000 income by 0.35 because he doesn't know how tax brackets work (or, apparently, where they begin). Spotting someone who doesn't know what the hell they're talking about isn't rocket science.

Its pretty common. Have you noticed the recent "Clinton never ran a surplus" meme on here lately too?

Toro I corrected my mistake
Our president after spending trillions more than we have created less than 20,000 jobs last month and the UE rate went up to 9.2%
Thats not going away Toro, and being stupid about an honest mistake will not change it

I'm being genuine. I'd suggest you hire an accountant to do your taxes. Go to WalMart where they have those guys at tax time. It will be the least expensive money you'll spend.

 

[Avorysuds]

I think the point is taxes need to be as low as possible to make our country competitive in a global sense. Someone having 20-30k less in a year (like my girlfriend) is a big fuckin deal when your just middle class.

When a rich person can lose a million a year in taxes that's fucking bullshit.

I work for myself and I hate going out on jobs and thinking I have to take out around 30% of my bid just for taxes to be safe.

Afghanistan will go till 2014 LOL

Iraq will only end if Obama thinks he really needs the bump in the polls before elections

Pakistan and Libya will prolly keep escalating just like Iraq did for Bush

Obamacare, and the rest will never slow down either... We're fucked.

 

[Toro]

I do not know how the tax bracket works?
so 33% vs 35% is what we need to be debating?
66,000 vs 70,000?
I am deeply sorry, but as usual you have nothing to offer in the debate
011 Federal Tax Tables
Federal Income Tax
SINGLE RATE JOINT RATE
$0 - $8,500

10.00%
$0 - $17,000

10.00%
$8,501- $34,500

15.00%
$17,001 - $69,000

15.00%
$34,501- $83,600

25.00%
$69,001- $139,350

25.00%
$83,601- $174,400

28.00%
$139,351- $212,300

28.00%
$174,401 - $379,150

33.00%
$212,301- $379,150

33.00%
$379,151 & OVER

35.00%
$379,151 & OVER

35.00%

I do not know what I am talking about?
then go away and leave us alone who know what we are talking about

Dude, really.

I'd strongly suggest you hire an accountant to do your taxes.

Dude, I do
what does any of your babble have to do with understanding why raising taxes is going to help?
and the table I provided, has a link
debate them, not me
Toro as a liberal your losing all respect
Tax Tables

I'm not a liberal.

Your link is proof that we should not rely too much on what's on the Internet. Kind of like that "there were no surpluses in the 90s" thing.

 

[Toro]

Dude, really.

I'd strongly suggest you hire an accountant to do your taxes.

The poor guy paid $12,000 on $65,000 of income last year, according to himself! Even the most basic, free-of-charge E-file system will offer up the standard deduction. Nevermind that he's apparently paying taxes on any pre-tax contributions to health care, 401K etc....

In fairness, I always screw up that qualified dividends thing. The IRS always has to send money back to me on that.