Does Anyone Really Want National Health Care?

[auditor0007]

No one suggests we emulate the British System or the French System or any other system. We have a system that is broken, yet, ironically is the best in the world. This paradox provides the special interests to manipulate the stupid voters to continue the status quo and benefits the few, not the many.

As I've posted many times, I believe the federal government should provide incentives for each state to offer free (i.e. tax payer funded) preventative care for all. Ideally a national program, single payer system of preventative care would provide universal care, but political consideratons make that unlikely.

I've suggested 435 Clinics be built aroung the country, providing jobs and stimulating local economies. One medical clinic for each Congressional District providing education, information, and preventative care to all citizens in the district. Using ones imagination it is possible to conceive how such a program could reduce costs; providing contraceptives will prevent many unwanted pregnanacies and abortion, education and information may prevent the spread of disease, STD as well as other communicable ones; and the long term costs when early diagnosis leads to early treatment will be better controlled.

Private insurance for accidents and serious sudden medical conditions would continue to exist, doctors could continue to practice privately though some would work for clinics, HMO's or the government as they do today.

Of course thinking and using one's imagination is required. Yelling "Socialism!" and not understanding the issue requires little thought and no imagination (Edit: See Mr. Liberty above for one such example).

How is what you are proposing not socialism?
So socialized medicine is going to eliminate unwanted pregnancies? These contraceptive are available now, for free. You are not going to change human behavior.
I and others don't want this. By what right do you have to force it on us?
If you can come up with a completely volunteer health plan then, I will support it. One that does not violate the liberty even one person. What you and the government have proposed is immoral.

Every single person derives a benefit from living in a society such as ours. And with that, as a society, we have an obligation to make certain that everyone has access to some basics, and personally, I believe adequate healthcare is one of those basics. Should you be completely required to pay for those basics? Of course not; that is why it is spread out amongst everyone, the same way we spread the costs for other essentials. In the end, the benefit is a more productive society that give you or anyone else much better opportunities to better yourself.

 

[kiwiman127]

Countries that have national healthcare pay a lower percent of GDP and are healthier than Americans American healthcare has too much paperwork and too many middlemen

False.

Ever been seriously sick?

I'm sorry, that question does not allow PoliticalChic the opportunity to cut & paste.
Therefore, your question was inappropriate.

 

[auditor0007]

I do.....I DO!

Cut out the do nothing middle men who do nothing for healthcare except paperwork
Cut out exorbitant overhead and profit from do nothing insurance companies

You get sick....No Bills.....No Debt

Good ideas (though that notion that insurance companies make exhorbitant profits isn't factually correct), I just don't get the insistance by you lefties that we have to turn it over to government to do that.

The problem with insurance companies is not in the percentage of profit they make. Actually, the fact that they make so little profit on a percentage basis may be a culprit in our high costs for medical care. Insurance companies set the rates for just about every single procedure, doctor's visit, treatment, surgery, or hospital stay. These costs are estimated based on many factors, however, they have nothing to do with actual compeitive costs. So what do healthcare providers do? They push for higher and higher payouts from the insurance companies. They spend more time trying to justify the need for higher payment schedules than they spend time trying to be competitive. And basically, every provider is paid the same amount regardless of the end result or quality of care. It's assumed to be the same care, so everyone gets paid the same.

Now, when the insurance companies look at this, they are more likely to agree that providers need to be paid more. It is not in the interest of the insurance company to say to providers that they can perform a certain procedure for less money. Because the more the provider needs to be paid, the more the insurer must charge. Since the insurers are operating on such a tight profit margin, the way to increase profit is by increasing overall gross income. So raising rates becomes the primary factor to increasing profits.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Countries that have national healthcare pay a lower percent of GDP and are healthier than Americans American healthcare has too much paperwork and too many middlemen

False.

Ever been seriously sick?

Do you think anyone other than Americans has been seriously sick?

Your post was false.

 

[PoliticalChic]

False.

Ever been seriously sick?

I'm sorry, that question does not allow PoliticalChic the opportunity to cut & paste.
Therefore, your question was inappropriate.

I noticed that your post has no substance....

try cutting and pasting.

 

[rightwinger]

False.

Ever been seriously sick?

Do you think anyone other than Americans has been seriously sick?

Your post was false.

Outside of cutting and pasting rightwing positions on healthcare, I am just asking whether you or someone you care for has ever been seriously sick. Have you had to personally deal with our existing healthcare system?
Just trying to determine your perspective not the existing rightwing perspective

 

[Bern80]

I do.....I DO!

Cut out the do nothing middle men who do nothing for healthcare except paperwork
Cut out exorbitant overhead and profit from do nothing insurance companies

You get sick....No Bills.....No Debt

Good ideas (though that notion that insurance companies make exhorbitant profits isn't factually correct), I just don't get the insistance by you lefties that we have to turn it over to government to do that.

Countries that have national healthcare pay a lower percent of GDP and are healthier than Americans American healthcare has too much paperwork and too many middlemen

I promise you if health care were truly private, we would not have nearly the paperwork in this country. Private business generally isn't real keen on wasting money. Our problem is we have a private industry that too heavily regulated by government. That is where all your paperwork is coming from.

And while other countries may spend less as a percent of GDP most are running major defecits to do that.

 

[Bern80]

Ever been seriously sick?

Do you think anyone other than Americans has been seriously sick?

Your post was false.

Outside of cutting and pasting rightwing positions on healthcare, I am just asking whether you or someone you care for has ever been seriously sick. Have you had to personally deal with our existing healthcare system?
Just trying to determine your perspective not the existing rightwing perspective

Maybe she hasn't but, I and my parents have. I had cancer when I was a young kid. I am quite aware of how medical bills can rack up. As an adult I still have more in yearly medical bills than most as a result. Would I like to come up with a way for those bills to be less? You bet. Does that mean I have the right to push a system that requires others to be responsible for the costs of my health care? No!

 

[Bern80]

I do.....I DO!

Cut out the do nothing middle men who do nothing for healthcare except paperwork
Cut out exorbitant overhead and profit from do nothing insurance companies

You get sick....No Bills.....No Debt

Good ideas (though that notion that insurance companies make exhorbitant profits isn't factually correct), I just don't get the insistance by you lefties that we have to turn it over to government to do that.

The problem with insurance companies is not in the percentage of profit they make. Actually, the fact that they make so little profit on a percentage basis may be a culprit in our high costs for medical care. Insurance companies set the rates for just about every single procedure, doctor's visit, treatment, surgery, or hospital stay. These costs are estimated based on many factors, however, they have nothing to do with actual compeitive costs. So what do healthcare providers do? They push for higher and higher payouts from the insurance companies. They spend more time trying to justify the need for higher payment schedules than they spend time trying to be competitive. And basically, every provider is paid the same amount regardless of the end result or quality of care. It's assumed to be the same care, so everyone gets paid the same.

Now, when the insurance companies look at this, they are more likely to agree that providers need to be paid more. It is not in the interest of the insurance company to say to providers that they can perform a certain procedure for less money. Because the more the provider needs to be paid, the more the insurer must charge. Since the insurers are operating on such a tight profit margin, the way to increase profit is by increasing overall gross income. So raising rates becomes the primary factor to increasing profits.

That's kind of my point. We have no idea what the true market value of these services really are. And the factors you mention suggests that they are higher than they would be in a free market system where people paid service providers directly. That is why I'm so opposed to a single payer system. You still aren't going to find out what the true value of services really are. You're just trading many third parties for one big one.

 

[rightwinger]

Do you think anyone other than Americans has been seriously sick?

Your post was false.

Outside of cutting and pasting rightwing positions on healthcare, I am just asking whether you or someone you care for has ever been seriously sick. Have you had to personally deal with our existing healthcare system?
Just trying to determine your perspective not the existing rightwing perspective

Maybe she hasn't but, I and my parents have. I had cancer when I was a young kid. I am quite aware of how medical bills can rack up. As an adult I still have more in yearly medical bills than most as a result. Would I like to come up with a way for those bills to be less? You bet. Does that mean I have the right to push a system that requires others to be responsible for the costs of my health care? No!

I have been there too. The bills.....the phone calls.....being put on hold....not being able to speak to the right person all while your medical bills add up.
The system doesn't work and Obamacare didn't fix it

Met a guy from England once who had a procedure similar to what my wife went through. He said he just showed his ID card and everything was taken care of. Never saw a bill

 

[Bern80]

Outside of cutting and pasting rightwing positions on healthcare, I am just asking whether you or someone you care for has ever been seriously sick. Have you had to personally deal with our existing healthcare system?
Just trying to determine your perspective not the existing rightwing perspective

Maybe she hasn't but, I and my parents have. I had cancer when I was a young kid. I am quite aware of how medical bills can rack up. As an adult I still have more in yearly medical bills than most as a result. Would I like to come up with a way for those bills to be less? You bet. Does that mean I have the right to push a system that requires others to be responsible for the costs of my health care? No!

I have been there too. The bills.....the phone calls.....being put on hold....not being able to speak to the right person all while your medical bills add up.
The system doesn't work and Obamacare didn't fix it

Met a guy from England once who had a procedure similar to what my wife went through. He said he just showed his ID card and everything was taken care of. Never saw a bill

And that's where I have the problem. People who's morality changes when the circumstances effect them. That's the question I want answered. Forget it's health care we're talking about. So things are bad for you. You need whatever fixed and it's going to cost a lot of money. I sympathize with that. I really do. But what gives you the right to obligate someone else to the financial expenses of fixing your problem?

 

[rightwinger]

Maybe she hasn't but, I and my parents have. I had cancer when I was a young kid. I am quite aware of how medical bills can rack up. As an adult I still have more in yearly medical bills than most as a result. Would I like to come up with a way for those bills to be less? You bet. Does that mean I have the right to push a system that requires others to be responsible for the costs of my health care? No!

I have been there too. The bills.....the phone calls.....being put on hold....not being able to speak to the right person all while your medical bills add up.
The system doesn't work and Obamacare didn't fix it

Met a guy from England once who had a procedure similar to what my wife went through. He said he just showed his ID card and everything was taken care of. Never saw a bill

And that's where I have the problem. People who's morality changes when the circumstances effect them. That's the question I want answered. Forget it's health care we're talking about. So things are bad for you. You need whatever fixed and it's going to cost a lot of money. I sympathize with that. I really do. But what gives you the right to obligate someone else to the financial expenses of fixing your problem?

Because the alternative is death

With you it could have been cancer, my wife it could have been her heart. Our health system is built on healthy Americans footing the bill for sick Americans. Is it fair?

Which group would you rather be in?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Those who argue our healthcare system is the best in the world are correct, and those who argue our healthcare system is failing are correct. This is the paradox I noted earlier. Why do kings and despots seriously ill come to the US for treatment? Because the wealthy can get the best care in the world. Yet many Americans when faced with a serious illness in their family face an economic disaster.

Those opposed to the Democratic effort to fix what is wrong with our current system are in denial, or too stupid to understand that the oppositition to reform are those who profit from the current system and those who benefti from the largess of those who profit (Members of Congress who call reform "Obamacare" or Socialism and accept bribes to oppose reform).

To many Americans cannot afford healthcare, and those who cannot receive both routine and emergency care in county hospitals - services paid for by taxpayers. Think about it. The Republicans who so oppose socialism and healthcare reform actually force many Americans into socialized medicine. County hospitals are run by county employees; the administrators, doctors, nurses, security, techs, etc. etc. are all government employees.

 

[USAMomma]

American healthcare has too much paperwork and too many middlemen

Very true

I think a direct pay to doctors would be a good way to go and cut out the insurance companies altogether.

As for community clinics to be built...well, there already are many community clinics and I feel they could use funding. Instead of bailouts to the banks I feel the money would have been much better sent to the clinics that serve the poor.

Medical/Medicaid reform is a must.

One such story I read in the news some time ago regarding serious fraud:
osted On: January 3, 2011 by Michael Kraut
Los Angeles Medical Fraud News Alert: Doctor Sentenced for Having a Receptionist Pose as MD
The annals of Southern California medical, dental and chiropractic fraud are replete with pretty crazy stories. But a breaking story out of Columbus, Ohio may have even the most tawdry recent Los Angeles white collar crime stories beat. An Ohio area doctor, Charles Njoku, has been sentenced for manipulating his receptionist into posing as a doctor to treat patients and bilk Medicare and Medicaid.
Read more on this here:
Los Angeles Medical Fraud News Alert: Doctor Sentenced for Having a Receptionist Pose as MD :: Los Angeles Criminal Defense Attorney Blog

Another fraud case:
March 15, 2011

Jasper County woman sentenced in Medicaid fraud case
Koster said his Medicaid Fraud Unit's review of Opfer’s subpoenaed records and Medicaid claims found evidence of billing Medicaid for services and hearing devices that were not provided.
Jasper County woman sentenced in Medicaid fraud case

Instead of hiring IRS people to enforce requirement regulations regarding health insurance (since I heard somewhere cannot recall where exactly; but that IRS was to be a part of enforcement); it would be far better to use the money for investigating fraud in my opinion...the savings of money from fraud prevention could then be used to help finance clinics.

 

[USAMomma]

Found the old news article I read regarding IRS and Health Enforcement Duties....

IRS Needs $10 Billion to Be Nation's Health Enforcer
(CNSNews.com) – The Internal Revenue Service will function as the government’s chief enforcer for health care reform, should President Obama sign the bill into law as expected, monitoring both businesses and individuals to certify whether they have the insurance coverage the government requires.

Read the rest here:
IRS Needs $10 Billion to Be Nation's Health Enforcer | CNSnews.com

 

[Immanuel]

I'd be okay with a National Health Care System if it were done right, but I don't like the idea of "we have to pass it so that they can know what is in it".

This can't be just let the politicians fix our problems. First we have to determine what exactly all the problems are. Then we have to determine not only the cost of those problems but also the cost of fixing them. Then we can start coming up with solutions.

We cannot let the people who have sold their souls to the insurance companies tell us how they are going to fix it.

Immie

 

[Cuyo]

clearly, only those who can afford health care deserve it!

It's hilarious that you can talk out of both sides of your mouth by complaining about waiting lists for medical care while totally disregarding care entirely for those who cannot afford it.

Think the head of Johns Hopkins might know better? He doesn't like Obamacare...

Dr. Edward Miller, CEO of Johns Hopkins, sees the expansion of Medicaid as making it harder for institutions such as his to serve the “poor or disadvantaged.” Edward Miller: Health Reform Could Harm Medicaid Patients - WSJ.com

'Obamacare' is not national healthcare.

In fact, the watered down version that finally passed can barely be called anything more than regulatory reform.

 

[USAMomma]

We cannot let the people who have sold their souls to the insurance companies tell us how they are going to fix it.

Especially since they cannot even balance their own frickin budget.
Payoffs galore, pay raises and bonuses galore all the while everyone else in the common sector getting pay reductions, increase in the costs of everything from fuel, utilities, rent, taxes, food, etc.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Where are the Prince and **** Middleton having their honeymoon ?
That's a large part of GB's problem. Leeches.
Sell Fuckingham palace to the Chinese and buy the old hag a double wide trailer. That'll buy a whole bunch of hips.

hey X-American asshole.....you can only use the word C..nt in the flame zone dipshit....hope they fucking ban your anti-American ass.....

 

[Bern80]

I have been there too. The bills.....the phone calls.....being put on hold....not being able to speak to the right person all while your medical bills add up.
The system doesn't work and Obamacare didn't fix it

Met a guy from England once who had a procedure similar to what my wife went through. He said he just showed his ID card and everything was taken care of. Never saw a bill

And that's where I have the problem. People who's morality changes when the circumstances effect them. That's the question I want answered. Forget it's health care we're talking about. So things are bad for you. You need whatever fixed and it's going to cost a lot of money. I sympathize with that. I really do. But what gives you the right to obligate someone else to the financial expenses of fixing your problem?

Because the alternative is death

With you it could have been cancer, my wife it could have been her heart. Our health system is built on healthy Americans footing the bill for sick Americans. Is it fair?

Which group would you rather be in?

So you would tell me that if you were dieing and I had the money to save your life I should be legally made to pay for saving your life?