Do You Support The "Gun Show Loophole?"

[Quantum Windbag]

Gun shows in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Still no actual content.

Or any proof that this mythical loophole actually exists.

Au contraire, that link provides a wealth of information - with source references.

That prove what? I could log into Wikipedia and rewrite that entire article so that it says the exact opposite of everything you believe, would that make you wrong? It it would, I would be more than happy to take the time to do just that.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's called Compromise bud. The Only Requirements to get said license in my world would be no Felony Record, and no History of Mental Illness. Said license would not be per gun, but just per person. So it would not create some registry of every gun everyone owns. It would simply try and assure the Mentally Ill, and Felons are not able to legally buy a gun.

That is a reasonable Compromise that should end this debate if you ask me. Now you and I know that it will not stop Criminals from getting guns, But the lefties think it will, and they are not going to shut up about it anytime soon.

I see no reason to compromise with anyone that wants to lock me in a cage.

When you are pinned in the corner with no where to go, it's OK to use your common sense on what your actual stances are, and not the ultra-right wing views the propaganda machine tries to brainwashed you with,..

My actual stance is that the 2nd Amendment says that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Since I can easily point to thousands of right wing Republicans that disagree with me, care to point out how that makes me right wing?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

How is that a loophole? It's the law isn't it? Private sales doesn't require a background check. It isn't a loophole.

Isn't it amazing how your right wingers are always the guilty until proven innocent anti-American, anti-liberty turds when it comes to a poor man's crime. But when a gun dealer hides behind the gun show loophole and moves HUNDREDS of weapons posing as a 'private' seller, he is just a 'shrewd' entrepreneur?

Nothing doth more hurt in a state than that cunning men pass for wise.
Sir Francis Bacon

liar

When Zimmerman shot Trayvon, it was the liberals that declared him guilty and the conservatives that wanted evidence.

you're pathetic

Yep there were many on the left wanting too lynch Zimmerman it must have been a racial thing

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's called Compromise bud. The Only Requirements to get said license in my world would be no Felony Record, and no History of Mental Illness. Said license would not be per gun, but just per person. So it would not create some registry of every gun everyone owns. It would simply try and assure the Mentally Ill, and Felons are not able to legally buy a gun.

That is a reasonable Compromise that should end this debate if you ask me. Now you and I know that it will not stop Criminals from getting guns, But the lefties think it will, and they are not going to shut up about it anytime soon.

I see no reason to compromise with anyone that wants to lock me in a cage.

I own a handful of guns Including an AR15 that I will not give up even if they say I have to, I am fully Pro Second. I just think Compromise now, or lose bigger later. If you have not noticed we are losing a lot of fights lately lol.

Do you honestly think the Brady Campaign to ban Handguns has changed its spots simply because they call themselves the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence? They are in this for the long haul, their compromise is to let you lose small now, more later, and big in a few years because the only way to prevent gun violence is to get rid of the guns.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's a "loophole" in the sense that private sellers can sell at gun shows without performing background checks. Hence, "gun show loophole"...

Except that private sellers can sell anywhere without said checks, which makes it not a loophole as much as an attempt to take away people's rights. You should look up the word liberal sometime, you might learn something.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

i see no reason to compromise with anyone that wants to lock me in a cage.

i own a handful of guns including an ar15 that i will not give up even if they say i have to, i am fully pro second. i just think compromise now, or lose bigger later. if you have not noticed we are losing a lot of fights lately lol.

Exactly.

See there Charles, the guy that wants to take away your guns thinks you should compromise with him. Tell me something, what do you get out of the compromise? Do you get a garauntee that they will never again bring up the subject of banning assault weapons? Or is the truth that they are settling for this because this is all they can get tight now?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you want to argue that anyone who wants to use a gun in public, ie CCW permit holders, police, and security guards, should be licensed before they are allowed to do so, I might go along with that. I see no reason to require a person that has no intention of using a gun in public to defend his right to protect himself and his family.

It's called Compromise bud. The Only Requirements to get said license in my world would be no Felony Record, and no History of Mental Illness. Said license would not be per gun, but just per person. So it would not create some registry of every gun everyone owns. It would simply try and assure the Mentally Ill, and Felons are not able to legally buy a gun.

That is a reasonable Compromise that should end this debate if you ask me. Now you and I know that it will not stop Criminals from getting guns, But the lefties think it will, and they are not going to shut up about it anytime soon.

Just when I thought you were another ultra-right wing hack, you post an honest, and intelligent post.
The first from any right winger on this thread!

Another ultra radical gun control nut cheering on your compromise.

Still failing to see what you get that makes it a compromise, can you be more specific about what you get in return for surrendering unconditionally?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A spin off of the other thread where I have asked numerous times and not a single right winger has answered, is if you support the gun show loophole.

For those that may not know, under current federal law if you wish to purchases a firearm, you have to be run in a background check to make sure you are not a felon, been convicted of a violent crime, been in a mental institution, etc,..before they give the go ahead to sell that person a weapon. However under the "gun show loophole", there are not background checks at all.

That's right, absoutly nothing. A violent thug fresh out of the penitentiary, a terrorist, or a nutcases ready to commit the next sandy hook could go down to their local gun show, or find a classified ad selling a firearm and they could purchase deadly weapons, with no questions asked.

No should be allowed to buy a gun at a gun show.

This is why I won't compromise on the mythical loophole, this is what they all want in the end.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This issue isn't even universal background checks, because it only involves gun shows. You may notice like I did that the opinions are a complete yes or no pertaining to whether a background check should be required for all sales at gun shows.

I'm going to examine the people who said no. I noticed many pointed out that the issue was a non-issue, so it makes someone wonder why no to a non-issue is of so much importance to the person opposing a background check at a gun show.

My question to all the nayers is what is to prevent me paying my $150 for a booth at a gun show and making money by not giving background checks? If I can pass a background check, why can't I purchase a gun at the gun show and resell it to someone without a background check? For that matter, what is to prevent a licensed dealer setting up someone who isn't a licensed dealer to sell firearms without a background check at a premium price?

If you don't think these private sales are an important issue, why do you oppose a background check? Couldn't they just set up an area at a gun show to do background checks and require it being done before a private sale can be accomplished? Let me spell it out to you! Somebody wants to buy a gun for a price from a private person, but before it can be sold, they have to go to an area, pay a fee and get a background check done. It's possible a licensed dealer at the gun show may want to do it for the fees to give him a steady cash stream independent of sales. The person is handed paperwork that they passed the background check and uses it to buy the gun. Let's also say a private person takes a gun to a gun show to sell it. They could put the gun on display with someone at the gun show and get them to sell it in a way that includes a background check.

Trying to move the goal posts again? Weren't you already called on this?

To answer your question, straw man purchases are illegal. If you buy a gun, and resell it, you are breaking the law. Since, in your world, laws prevent people from doing things, you cannot do what you just said already.

End of your diversion, and another failure in your attempt to frame the debate in your terms.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

At this point is when the bar is closing up, the idiot is still spewing nonsense while the bartender is giving the group the "Get this idiot out of here" look, in which the group puts the idiot into their car, drives them home, and once the fool steps out of the car, say "Do you know you have chunks still on your shoes?"
When the idiot looks down, they peel out of there as fast as they can.

You know that idiot? yes, that was you, again.

Now back to the topic,...

Did you forget the topic? Insult is all you can do!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/277759-do-you-support-the-gun-show-loophole.html#post6793763

There's your topic!

There is no such thing as a 'gun show loop hole' as you claim in your OP!

Anyone, including 'violent thugs fresh out of the penitentiary, terrorists, or nutcases' can go to a gun show and buy weapons from a 'private' seller without submitting to a background check. THAT is a loophole.

You want to make all sales subject to government check then, not just the ones at gun shows, because the only loophole I see is not requiring checks on private sales.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That's how the loophole works. While the felon will be committing another felony by owning the gun, the seller is good to go as they do not have to ask any questions or ask the buyer to undergo a background check.

Actually, again, selling a gun to a felon is illegal, and ignorance of the law does not protect you.

And tell us Einstein...HOW would a seller know if a buyer is a felon? By looks? Smell??

It is illegal, standing in court and blithering that you didn't know only works on really bad TV shows.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Everyone, even the private sales undergo a background check? Do explain

How is that a loophole? It's the law isn't it? Private sales doesn't require a background check. It isn't a loophole.

Isn't it amazing how your right wingers are always the guilty until proven innocent anti-American, anti-liberty turds when it comes to a poor man's crime. But when a gun dealer hides behind the gun show loophole and moves HUNDREDS of weapons posing as a 'private' seller, he is just a 'shrewd' entrepreneur?

Nothing doth more hurt in a state than that cunning men pass for wise.
Sir Francis Bacon

Any gun dealer that did that would lose his license and end up in prison. There are police and feds among the dealers and the buyers at every gun show to prevent exactly the thing you are describing. That is something that will never happen because the dealers that do that don't use gun shows to find customers.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How is that a loophole? It's the law isn't it? Private sales doesn't require a background check. It isn't a loophole.

Authoritarian douchebags always call freedom a "loophole".

Freedom for criminals to buy weapons without a background check is what you are fighting for...great cause Jethro...great cause!

If freedom lets criminals do bad things than I can live with it. It is a lot better than the alternative, no freedom, and we still have criminals.

 

[Liability]

Crack_fable heard something on TV. He's a simpleton, therefore he believes it.

What is this so-called gun show "loophole"

Crack_Fable cannot answer that by pointing to ANY law. He never will. He will not even try.

 

[Bfgrn]

Did you forget the topic? Insult is all you can do!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/277759-do-you-support-the-gun-show-loophole.html#post6793763

There's your topic!

There is no such thing as a 'gun show loop hole' as you claim in your OP!

Anyone, including 'violent thugs fresh out of the penitentiary, terrorists, or nutcases' can go to a gun show and buy weapons from a 'private' seller without submitting to a background check. THAT is a loophole.

You want to make all sales subject to government check then, not just the ones at gun shows, because the only loophole I see is not requiring checks on private sales.

"It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners"
Albert Camus

Every gun sale should require a background check IMO. But what the gun show loophole allows is dealers who POSE as 'private' sellers to set up a booth at gun shows and sell weapons without a background check. If the 'private' seller suspects the buyer is a criminal, he is supposed to terminate the sale. Undercover buyers/investigators with hidden cameras went to seven gun shows across Ohio, Tennessee and Nevada, and found out just how easy it is for criminals and the mentally ill to walk in and buy guns -- no questions asked.

Investigators told the private sellers that they "probably couldn't pass a background check" -- and at that point, the seller should have sent them away. Because even private sellers are prohibited by federal law from selling to those who they have reason to suspect could not pass a background check.

Instead, 19 out of 30 private sellers made the sale.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

They ought to change the name of the gun show loophole into the let's-make-it-as-easy-as-possible-for-criminals-to-buy-guns loophole.

They should change the name of every law to lets take away some more freedom from law abiding citizens act and tack a different number on the end.

 

[Bfgrn]

They ought to change the name of the gun show loophole into the let's-make-it-as-easy-as-possible-for-criminals-to-buy-guns loophole.

They should change the name of every law to lets take away some more freedom from law abiding citizens act and tack a different number on the end.

No law abiding citizen is losing his or her freedom or liberty making background checks mandatory for all gun sales. It should make perfect SENSE to any law abiding citizen, then, only a criminal would object.

 

[Bfgrn]

"How strict would gun laws have to be to prevent massacres?"

Strict enough to prevent a criminal from buying guns in the safety, comfort and sanction of a gun show without having a background check run on him. There IS a loophole in the gun show law that allows a big gun dealer to pose as little uncle Joe selling a gun or two, and circumvent doing a background check.

FACT: Gun sellers who claim to be “occasional sellers” are not required by current federal law to conduct background checks on their customers. Furthermore, there is no clear definition of how many guns a person can sell as an “occasional seller” – it could be dozens, or even hundreds.

The Firearm Owners' Protection Act (FOPA) states: 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(21)(D), (22). Those not “engaged in the business” of dealing guns are exempt from the licensure requirement.

So, closing the gun show loophole would not punish any law abiding gun owner.

And, as citizens, we can't stop a criminal from buying an illegal firearm from the trunk of another criminal in some dark alley.

But, that's where the criminal should be forced to buy a gun. In a totally illegal setting, with all the inherent dangers that come with it. BUT, our current laws sanction criminals being able to walk into a gun show, receive expert advice, discounts, then buy whatever weapon(s) they desire without a background check or having to pay black market prices or risk the dangers of buying a weapon from another criminal in a dark alley.

Here is some info on the loophole...

What is the gun show loophole?

Federal law allows people who sell guns to avoid running background checks or keeping records by calling themselves occasional sellers, and these sellers often congregate at gun shows. The loophole provides criminals with easy access to firearms without having to worry about any background checks.

• Current law requires licensed gun dealers to conduct background checks, because that is the only way to determine whether a person is eligible to buy a gun. Licensed dealers must also keep records about the buyer so ATF can trace the gun if it is recovered at a crime scene.
  

• The law does not, however, require so-called occasional sellers to do these checks – and there’s no clear definition of what qualifies as an occasional seller.[ii]

• Many sellers at gun shows abuse that loophole by calling themselves occasional sellers. Because they concentrate at gun shows, it is easy for felons and other prohibited possessors to find someone who will sell to them without a background check.

...........*ATF concluded that “gun shows and flea markets are a major venue for illegal trafficking.”[iii]

• Gun shows linked to the Pentagon Shooting: In March 2010, John Bedell – who was prohibited by law from possessing guns – shot two Pentagon police officers with a gun purchased from a private seller at a Las Vegas gun show.

• Gun shows were tied to a broad range of violations, including straw purchases and the sale of kits to convert legal guns into illegal machine guns.

Solution: Require occasional sellers to run instant background checks.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Anyone, including 'violent thugs fresh out of the penitentiary, terrorists, or nutcases' can go to a gun show and buy weapons from a 'private' seller without submitting to a background check. THAT is a loophole.

You want to make all sales subject to government check then, not just the ones at gun shows, because the only loophole I see is not requiring checks on private sales.

"It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners"
Albert Camus

Every gun sale should require a background check IMO. But what the gun show loophole allows is dealers who POSE as 'private' sellers to set up a booth at gun shows and sell weapons without a background check. If the 'private' seller suspects the buyer is a criminal, he is supposed to terminate the sale. Undercover buyers/investigators with hidden cameras went to seven gun shows across Ohio, Tennessee and Nevada, and found out just how easy it is for criminals and the mentally ill to walk in and buy guns -- no questions asked.

Investigators told the private sellers that they "probably couldn't pass a background check" -- and at that point, the seller should have sent them away. Because even private sellers are prohibited by federal law from selling to those who they have reason to suspect could not pass a background check.

Instead, 19 out of 30 private sellers made the sale.

The executioner always works for the government.

Just saying.

Care to explain how you want to use a quote from Camus to argue for more government power?

Care to prove to me that those undercover buyers who actually filmed transactions at gun shows did not set this up in advance by putting fake dealers in the shows? That would explain the fact that no criminal prosecutions ever came about as a result of these stings, unlike the MSNBC stings where they set up people trying to sleep with underage girls, wouldn't it?

Simple fact, the ATF monitors gun shows to prevent exactly the thing you are insisting is happening. They live for catching people selling to criminals, and would love to prove it is actually happening at gun shows so they could shut them down. How many cases have they filed over the years?

Stop trying to scare me with stupid stories just because you choose to go along with the executioner instead of thinking.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

They ought to change the name of the gun show loophole into the let's-make-it-as-easy-as-possible-for-criminals-to-buy-guns loophole.

They should change the name of every law to lets take away some more freedom from law abiding citizens act and tack a different number on the end.

No law abiding citizen is losing his or her freedom or liberty making background checks mandatory for all gun sales. It should make perfect SENSE to any law abiding citizen, then, only a criminal would object.

If it does not infringe anyone's rights to go through a background check maybe we can require them before an abortion also. Would that make sense to you, or do you suddenly see background checks as a violation of rights when they are applied to things other than guns?

If you require all change of ownership on guns to go through a background check every law abiding citizen will lose a bit of their privacy because the government will eventually know exactly who does, and does not, own a gun. That not only violates the rights of people who buy and sell guns, it violates the rights of those who do not.

Like I said before, stop pretending to be the person who is thinking when all you are doing is going along with the executioner.