Do you support abolishing the Federal Dept of Education?

[Soggy in NOLA]

But they dont have a say.....Jesus christ.....I see the educate you got failed you. Public, Private, homeschooled, it fucking failed you.

So, you're typing all this filth while playing with your kid?

Lovely...

 

[NYcarbineer]

Convince me that education is not a vital national interest, and you'll convince me the federal government ought not be concerned with it.

Good education is vital. The education coming out of public schools is not vital to our national interest. It's a detriment.

If that were true, it would thus be a failure of state and local government. If state and local governments are failing in an area of vital national interest,

then the federal government is not only authorized, but in fact obligated, to take action to remedy the situation.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Absolutely.
The Dept. of Education has categorically failed in every single reason for it's existence.
And after Jimmy Carter greatly expanded the DOE - it is a failure on every single added responsibility that he placed upon it.

I challenge anyone to find any other department that is such an utter failure...and that includes law enforcement and the war on drugs.

 

[Jarhead]

actually the Spending was moderately low until bush came in and expanded spending. Im not saying this is a negative, just it is what it is.
Again like i said go educate yourself on the subject before spitting out more nonsense.

the question here is not about absolute value, but effectiveness. Since the 1950s we have been shoveling ever more money at the problem and getting worse results. After 60 years of this we should conclude the experiment in federal control of education is a flop. Republican ideas or Democratic ideas flop equally badly. What does seem to work is local control and local accountability. What we have now is federal control and no accountability

so you are just going to keep on repeating the same things, even know you are completely wrong?

Why should i waste my time if your not going to listen. You're wrong, they dont have control, the states and locals do. If you cant understand this simple fact about the DOE. Then you are nothing more than a waste of time.

Please note that in the U.S., the federal role in education is limited. Because of the Tenth Amendment, most education policy is decided at the state and local levels. So, if you have a question about a policy or issue, you may want to check with the relevant organization in your state or school district.

Policy - ED.gov

U.S. Department of Education Budget Office

Welcome to the Budget home page of the United States Department of Education (ED). Here you'll find a wealth of information about the President's FY 2012 Budget Request for ED, including a program-by-program description of the request. In Budget News, we track Congressional action on the Department's budget and keep you updated on other important budget-related news. We also provide a variety of detailed budget tables on key aspects of the Department's budget, including the President's Budget Request, Congressional action on appropriations, State allocations, and historical funding levels.

ED currently administers a budget of $69.9 billion in discretionary appropriations (including discretionary Pell Grant funding) under the FY 2011 Continuing Resolution annualized level and operates programs that touch on every area and level of education. The Department's elementary and secondary programs annually serve nearly 14,000 school districts and approximately 56 million students attending some 99,000 public schools and 34,000 private schools. Department programs also provide grant, loan, and work-study assistance to more than 15 million postsecondary students.

That said, it is important to point out that education in America is primarily a State and local responsibility, and ED's budget is only a small part of both total national education spending and the overall Federal budget, as we explain in a primer on the Federal role in education. In addition to this historical background, we try to demystify the Federal budget process and show how it is carried out in ED.

there I fucking educated you on the role of the DOE. Like i said the OP is a Lie, your control is a lie, and you have literally no clue as to what you are talkng about.

UH...Plasma.....read the mission statement, the overview and the intitiatives.
The DoE is most certainly getting more involved in education than just ensuring there is proper funding.

As I said earlier...it is getting more involved in national guidelines.

 

[Provocateur]

but its already there you fucking dumbshit.

state and local level run the schools. feds mostly come in for aid and make up 10% of the overall national budget.

your statement is a lie

So we dont have a Federal Department of Education that recieves Billions of dolalrs in tax payer moneys which they distribute back to states and local governments?

The Federal Government has no authority to do anything in education. They shouldn't have 0% say let alone 10%.

You're very own statistics have proven that I havent lied about jack.

We do have a DOE that hands out our money IF the states and local goverments CAN'T cover the bills themselves. They are a safety net in a sense.

They have 0% now anyways. 10% is BUDGET to help out hurting schools and states.

you would need to actually understand my stats before we can move any further. It would seem you cant even do that.

your OP is a lie, because you refuse to educate yourself on the matter. Thats your problem.

I see you have zero knowledge regarding No Child Left Behind, which has nothing to do with the budgetary issues you seem to be touting.

 

[Jarhead]

But they dont have a say.....Jesus christ.....I see the educate you got failed you. Public, Private, homeschooled, it fucking failed you.

So, you're typing all this filth while playing with your kid?

Lovely...

Prove me wrong.

My kid cant read, he is four months old. Douche

good luck with your son
4 years old is such an innocent age.
Mine are 21 and 24.....innocence is gone!

 

[Provocateur]

but its already there you fucking dumbshit.

state and local level run the schools. feds mostly come in for aid and make up 10% of the overall national budget.

your statement is a lie

So we dont have a Federal Department of Education that recieves Billions of dolalrs in tax payer moneys which they distribute back to states and local governments?

The Federal Government has no authority to do anything in education. They shouldn't have 0% say let alone 10%.

You're very own statistics have proven that I havent lied about jack.

Plasma didnt say that.

But he is correct...the DoE does not teach our children. It does not decide on the lesson plans, the teachers hired or the textbooks used.

It sets academic goals and standards, which the states must comply with.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Convince me that education is not a vital national interest, and you'll convince me the federal government ought not be concerned with it.

If it were a "vital national interest" that is precisely the reason the government shouldn't be involved with it.

However, there is no such thing as a "vital national interest." Individuals have interests. the government has interests. But something as amorphous and ill defined as a "nation" doesn't.

Ok, so having, for example, a government run military to protect us because defense against potential enemies is a vital national interest is

stupid

because there's no such thing as a vital national interest, and even if there were, the government shoudn't be involved with it, precisely because it would be a vital national interest.

lolol, some people really need to think before they post.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If conservatives have the answers to better education, why is it that the worst states, educationally,

are the more conservative ones?

I think that if you believe evidence of results has any merit, you would want your kids educated in the manner of places like Massachusetts rather than places like Mississippi.

 

[eflatminor]

then the federal government is not only authorized, but in fact obligated, to take action to remedy the situation.

Please point to the enumerated power under which the federal government has this authority. The ENUMERATED POWER please.

 

[Provocateur]

Plasma didnt say that.

But he is correct...the DoE does not teach our children. It does not decide on the lesson plans, the teachers hired or the textbooks used.

It sets academic goals and standards, which the states must comply with.

The Federal Role in Education

OVERVIEW
Education is primarily a State and local responsibility in the United States. It is States and communities, as well as public and private organizations of all kinds, that establish schools and colleges, develop curricula, and determine requirements for enrollment and graduation. The structure of education finance in America reflects this predominant State and local role. Of an estimated $1.13 trillion being spent nationwide on education at all levels for school year 2010-2011, a substantial majority will come from State, local, and private sources. This is especially true at the elementary and secondary level, where about 89.2 percent of the funds will come from non-Federal sources.

That means the Federal contribution to elementary and secondary education is about 10.8 percent, which includes funds not only from the Department of Education (ED) but also from other Federal agencies, such as the Department of Health and Human Services' Head Start program and the Department of Agriculture's School Lunch program.

Although ED's share of total education funding in the U.S. is relatively small, ED works hard to get a big bang for its taxpayer-provided bucks by targeting its funds where they can do the most good. This targeting reflects the historical development of the Federal role in education as a kind of "emergency response system," a means of filling gaps in State and local support for education when critical national needs arise.

Federal Role in Education

As you can see, you have no clue as to what you are talking about, again.....
I can do this all day people.

Twit, you have to jump through their hoops to receive funding. Is your son's IQ higher than yours?

 

[Provocateur]

No Child Left Behind:

Supporters of the NCLB claim one of the strong positive points of the bill is the increased accountability that is required of the schools and its teachers. According to the legislation, schools are required to pass yearly tests that will judge how much improvement the students have made over the fiscal year. These yearly standardized tests are the main research that is used to decide whether schools are living up to the standards that they are required to meet. If these improvements are not met, the schools face decreased funding and other punishments that contribute to the increased accountability. According to supporters, these goals help teachers and schools realize the significance and importance of the educational system and how it affects the nation. Opponents to this law base their objections to the accountability by stating that the punishments only hurt the schools more and do not contribute to the improvement of the students. If the schools and teachers do not live up to the accountability standards, parents may choose to move their children to different schools in the area

In addition to and in support of the above points, proponents claim that No Child Left Behind:

* Links State academic content standards with student outcomes.
* Measures student performance: a student's progress in reading and math must be measured annually in grades 3 through 8 and at least once during high school via standardized tests.
* Provides information for parents by requiring states and school districts to give parents detailed report cards on schools and districts explaining the school's AYP performance. Schools must also inform parents when their child is being taught by a teacher or para-professional who does not meet "highly qualified" requirements.
* Establishes the foundation for schools and school districts to significantly enhance parental involvement and improved administration through the use of the assessment data to drive decisions on instruction, curriculum and business practices.

The state of Pennsylvania has proposed tying teacher's salaries to scores on the test. If a district's students do poorly, the district's budget is cut the following year by the state, and the teachers get a pay cut. Critics point out that if a school is doing poorly, taking funds away from their budget and cutting teacher's salaries is, more likely than not, going to hamper the ability of the school to improve the following year.


No Child Left Behind Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Provocateur]

Federal Role in Education

As you can see, you have no clue as to what you are talking about, again.....
I can do this all day people.

Twit, you have to jump through their hoops to receive funding. Is your son's IQ higher than yours?

Again NCLB is the closest thing you guys have. States and locals run the show stupid.

Wow. States requirements can supercede the fed requirements. Who knew?

 

[kiwiman127]

I think that it doesn't matter if the Federal or the State governments are involved. For the last few decade or so we have seen of poor education results and it coincides with the growth of the two wage earner families. When both parents are working, the at home education deteriorates. There's less guidance.
Secondly, we have been going through a technological advancement period and kids have their toys. These new 'toys", deter the at-home studying as they are a distraction and is basically addicting to these vulnerable young minds.
It doesn't matter much how good the school or teachers are, the two wage earner family or one parent household and lack of guidance that comes with this environment is the straw that's breaking the back of good education results.

 

[Provocateur]

No Child Left Behind:

Supporters of the NCLB claim one of the strong positive points of the bill is the increased accountability that is required of the schools and its teachers. According to the legislation, schools are required to pass yearly tests that will judge how much improvement the students have made over the fiscal year. These yearly standardized tests are the main research that is used to decide whether schools are living up to the standards that they are required to meet. If these improvements are not met, the schools face decreased funding and other punishments that contribute to the increased accountability. According to supporters, these goals help teachers and schools realize the significance and importance of the educational system and how it affects the nation. Opponents to this law base their objections to the accountability by stating that the punishments only hurt the schools more and do not contribute to the improvement of the students. If the schools and teachers do not live up to the accountability standards, parents may choose to move their children to different schools in the area

In addition to and in support of the above points, proponents claim that No Child Left Behind:

* Links State academic content standards with student outcomes.
* Measures student performance: a student's progress in reading and math must be measured annually in grades 3 through 8 and at least once during high school via standardized tests.
* Provides information for parents by requiring states and school districts to give parents detailed report cards on schools and districts explaining the school's AYP performance. Schools must also inform parents when their child is being taught by a teacher or para-professional who does not meet "highly qualified" requirements.
* Establishes the foundation for schools and school districts to significantly enhance parental involvement and improved administration through the use of the assessment data to drive decisions on instruction, curriculum and business practices.

The state of Pennsylvania has proposed tying teacher's salaries to scores on the test. If a district's students do poorly, the district's budget is cut the following year by the state, and the teachers get a pay cut. Critics point out that if a school is doing poorly, taking funds away from their budget and cutting teacher's salaries is, more likely than not, going to hamper the ability of the school to improve the following year.


No Child Left Behind Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That means the Federal contribution to elementary and secondary education is about 10.8 percent, which includes funds not only from the Department of Education (ED) but also from other Federal agencies, such as the Department of Health and Human Services' Head Start program and the Department of Agriculture's School Lunch program.

shrug....NCLB has no real affect on things. Nice try though. Power still resides in state and local governments.

Repeal NCLB for all i care, but the DOE is about funding when they dont have enough cash do to an emergency.

You don't know what you are talking about. But don't let that stop your ideological position that conservatives are simply overreacting to the power of the feds.

I'm done here. You don't want to learn anything.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

without a doubt yes

 

[bigrebnc1775]

If conservatives have the answers to better education, why is it that the worst states, educationally,

are the more conservative ones?

I think that if you believe evidence of results has any merit, you would want your kids educated in the manner of places like Massachusetts rather than places like Mississippi.

who gathers the information that shows who state leads?

 

[Wicked Jester]

If conservatives have the answers to better education, why is it that the worst states, educationally,

are the more conservative ones?

I think that if you believe evidence of results has any merit, you would want your kids educated in the manner of places like Massachusetts rather than places like Mississippi.

who gathers the information that shows who state leads?

Yeah, just look where LIBERAL California ranks these days.

 

[Mr.Nick]

What educated person would want their children taught by a bunch of Maoists?

Our education system is infested with progressives who could care less about educating young minds, rather their main focus is to shape empty minds into socialist minds.

It's an Orwellian system.....

 

[The T]

What educated person would want their children taught by a bunch of Maoists?

Our education system is infested with progressives who could care less about educating young minds, rather their main focus is to shape empty minds into socialist minds.

It's an Orwellian system.....

Rather focused on maintaining Elistist power over individuals through government force.

Oh my what dumb masses we have wrought...