Do We Really Need Guns?

[Flopper]

It's my first thread here, and I want to start with the issue, that worries me a lot.

Gun owners always claim that they own guns for self protection, even though the guns in their homes impose a much greater risk to their lives than an intruder. They also state they need guns to protect themselves from the government and from tthr police. Oh, seriously? Other argument for guns is hunting. Food production in the US is quite complex and capable of providing all types of foods to all parts of the country. And, if someone is too poor to buy food to eat, they are too poor to buy weapons. So what for?! Explain me, please.

I truly believe, that guns only do harm There is no use for guns in our society. The 2nd amendment was made in a time where guns were necessary because of the British.

It's not need, it's want. People love to shoot things, ten cans, targets, birds, and occasionally humans. Personally, I think it would be great if our society rejected gun ownership but that's not going to happen. The best that can happen is some sensible gun control that can actually be enforced.

 

[M14 Shooter]

It's not need, it's want. People love to shoot things, ten cans, targets, birds, and occasionally humans. Personally, I think it would be great if our society rejected gun ownership but that's not going to happen. The best that can happen is some sensible gun control that can actually be enforced.

- I have a license to own a gun. To get that license I had to show a need to own a gun.
- I have a license to carry a gun. To get that license I had to undergo training and undergo a fingerprinted background check.
- All of my guns are registered; the state has their make, model, serial number and ballistic fingerprint on record.
- I had to undergo at least one background check before I bought all of my guns, including those I bought in private sales and those I bought from the federal government – which required fingerprints, as did my licenses to own and carry a gun.
- All of my guns and their magazines were purchased legally between 1995 and 2003.

How do these "common sense" gun control laws prevent me from shooting up a school or a mall or a movie theater?

The benefit of "reasonable" gun control:

CA gun laws require that:
-All transfers must be through a dealer, thus...
-All transfers undergo a background check
-All transfers undergo a 10-day waiting period (ruled unconstitutional 8/2014)
-All firearms must be registered
-Handgun purchases require a handgun safety certificate-– a permit.that requires training and a test
-Ban on ‘assault weapons’, effective 1 JUN 1989
-Ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds
-Ban on NFA machineguns

% of murders in US committed with a firearm: 69.36 (8855/12765)
% of murders in CA committed with a firearm: 69.39 (1304/1879)

% US population in CA: 12.12%
% US murders in CA: 14.71
% US murders with a gun in CA 14.72

 

[Iceweasel]

It's my first thread here, and I want to start with the issue, that worries me a lot.

Gun owners always claim that they own guns for self protection, even though the guns in their homes impose a much greater risk to their lives than an intruder. They also state they need guns to protect themselves from the government and from tthr police. Oh, seriously? Other argument for guns is hunting. Food production in the US is quite complex and capable of providing all types of foods to all parts of the country. And, if someone is too poor to buy food to eat, they are too poor to buy weapons. So what for?! Explain me, please.

I truly believe, that guns only do harm There is no use for guns in our society. The 2nd amendment was made in a time where guns were necessary because of the British.

It's not need, it's want. People love to shoot things, ten cans, targets, birds, and occasionally humans. Personally, I think it would be great if our society rejected gun ownership but that's not going to happen. The best that can happen is some sensible gun control that can actually be enforced.

Sears used to sell guns out of their catalogs. So gun control isn't the problem. The best that can happen is people reject progressives and their cultural influence.

 

[NoNukes]

We had that argument, and now you prove me right in denying it.

You are a liar.

You have no memory of the ridiculous things that you post.

I have an excellent memory. I have never made the argument that alcohol and guns were a good mixture. You are a liar.

I said that it was ridiculous and dangerous to pass a law that you were allowed to carry a gun in a bar. You disagreed and said that you and your friends always carry when you go to the bar.

Yes I disagreed. Not everyone that goes into a bar drinks to excess. And no, I never said that me and my friends always carry in a bar. It is illegal to carry a firearm in any establishment where alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts.

One of the participants in this exchange is not being truthful.

 

[NoNukes]

We had that argument, and now you prove me right in denying it.

You are a liar.

You have no memory of the ridiculous things that you post.

I have an excellent memory. I have never made the argument that alcohol and guns were a good mixture. You are a liar.

I said that it was ridiculous and dangerous to pass a law that you were allowed to carry a gun in a bar. You disagreed and said that you and your friends always carry when you go to the bar.

just because one goes into a bar

does not mean one drinks alcohol

True, but most do.

 

[NoNukes]

We had that argument, and now you prove me right in denying it.

You are a liar.

You have no memory of the ridiculous things that you post.

I have an excellent memory. I have never made the argument that alcohol and guns were a good mixture. You are a liar.

I said that it was ridiculous and dangerous to pass a law that you were allowed to carry a gun in a bar. You disagreed and said that you and your friends always carry when you go to the bar.

Yes I disagreed. Not everyone that goes into a bar drinks to excess. And no, I never said that me and my friends always carry in a bar. It is illegal to carry a firearm in any establishment where alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts.

People who do drink to excess should not have the law on their side about carrying guns in a bar. It should be illegal.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You are a liar.

You have no memory of the ridiculous things that you post.

I have an excellent memory. I have never made the argument that alcohol and guns were a good mixture. You are a liar.

I said that it was ridiculous and dangerous to pass a law that you were allowed to carry a gun in a bar. You disagreed and said that you and your friends always carry when you go to the bar.

Yes I disagreed. Not everyone that goes into a bar drinks to excess. And no, I never said that me and my friends always carry in a bar. It is illegal to carry a firearm in any establishment where alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts.

One of the participants in this exchange is not being truthful.

That would be you.

 

[Nosmo King]

I believe it is a culture of guns that has made us less safe. As I grew up, there was never a threat of gun violence in the schools, streets or our community at large.

But in the 1970s we began to suffer under a new approach to handguns: the Saturday night Special. Anyone else remember those? Cheap concealable handguns that were made widely available. Suddenly, every thug who here-to-fore carried a switchblade could afford a handgun.

There was a steady, but relentless tide of cultural erosion. Action movie stars glamorized gun violence. The crack epidemic of the 1980s and 90s brought more addictive drugs to the street fostering more violence. The National Rifle Association changed its purview from hunter safety and education to preeminence as the nation's most active and powerful gun manufacturer's lobby.

I believe that hunting rifles and shot guns are absolutely necessary to our economy, our society and our recreational opportunities. But the weapons of war, not sport, are a real threat to that hunting tradition. Rambo taught the young kids to love the semi-automatic weapon without a sense of the responsibility such weapons bring. Now, there are actually some so-called sportsmen who think an AR-15 is a great deer rifle. Not much 'sport' in that. There are some who believe that their ability to gun down strangers for perceived threats is a way of standing their ground. Stand your Ground laws obliterated murder charges.

It's not the gun as a noun we should worry about. It's gun as a verb.

 

[Pogo]

It's not need, it's want. People love to shoot things, ten cans, targets, birds, and occasionally humans. Personally, I think it would be great if our society rejected gun ownership but that's not going to happen. The best that can happen is some sensible gun control that can actually be enforced.

- I have a license to own a gun. To get that license I had to show a need to own a gun.
- I have a license to carry a gun. To get that license I had to undergo training and undergo a fingerprinted background check.
- All of my guns are registered; the state has their make, model, serial number and ballistic fingerprint on record.
- I had to undergo at least one background check before I bought all of my guns, including those I bought in private sales and those I bought from the federal government – which required fingerprints, as did my licenses to own and carry a gun.
- All of my guns and their magazines were purchased legally between 1995 and 2003.

How do these "common sense" gun control laws prevent me from shooting up a school or a mall or a movie theater?

They don't. Not at all.

I agree with Flopper's sentiment except I would define the term "gun control" not in terms of laws but in terms of culture. That's what's going to be effective. Get rid of the romanticization. Get rid of the overall mentality that the way to deal with a problem is to blow it to smithereens, whether literally or figuratively. Stop, for example, waging "wars" on poverty, on drugs, on terrorism, whatever, get this vanguish-mentality monkey off our collective back, seek instead to grok the underlying deficiencies and inequities underlying them, and address them. Because this brute-force "overpower or die" mentality is just juvenile.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You are a liar.

You have no memory of the ridiculous things that you post.

I have an excellent memory. I have never made the argument that alcohol and guns were a good mixture. You are a liar.

I said that it was ridiculous and dangerous to pass a law that you were allowed to carry a gun in a bar. You disagreed and said that you and your friends always carry when you go to the bar.

Yes I disagreed. Not everyone that goes into a bar drinks to excess. And no, I never said that me and my friends always carry in a bar. It is illegal to carry a firearm in any establishment where alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts.

People who do drink to excess should not have the law on their side about carrying guns in a bar. It should be illegal.

It is illegal. I have said as much. So what are you bitching about?

However, I don't think it should be illegal to open or conceal carry in a bar, I do think it should remain illegal to carry while you're intoxicated.

 

[NoNukes]

You have no memory of the ridiculous things that you post.

I have an excellent memory. I have never made the argument that alcohol and guns were a good mixture. You are a liar.

I said that it was ridiculous and dangerous to pass a law that you were allowed to carry a gun in a bar. You disagreed and said that you and your friends always carry when you go to the bar.

Yes I disagreed. Not everyone that goes into a bar drinks to excess. And no, I never said that me and my friends always carry in a bar. It is illegal to carry a firearm in any establishment where alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts.

One of the participants in this exchange is not being truthful.

That would be you.

Yes, I just make up things like this. Too bad your memory is so poor, but unlike you, I do not call people liars when they call me on something that I said.

 

[NoNukes]

You have no memory of the ridiculous things that you post.

I have an excellent memory. I have never made the argument that alcohol and guns were a good mixture. You are a liar.

I said that it was ridiculous and dangerous to pass a law that you were allowed to carry a gun in a bar. You disagreed and said that you and your friends always carry when you go to the bar.

Yes I disagreed. Not everyone that goes into a bar drinks to excess. And no, I never said that me and my friends always carry in a bar. It is illegal to carry a firearm in any establishment where alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts.

People who do drink to excess should not have the law on their side about carrying guns in a bar. It should be illegal.

It is illegal. I have said as much. So what are you bitching about?

However, I don't think it should be illegal to open or conceal carry in a bar, I do think it should remain illegal to carry while you're intoxicated.

The best way to avoid this is not to carry a firearm in a bar.

 

[2aguy]

So...

At the current rate, 339,000 Americans will die by guns over the next 10 years. That is roughly equivalent to the current population of Tampa, Florida. Please, don't say, that it's not a problem.

So multiply 10 x 1.6 million...that is how many people, on average, will have used a gun to save lives and stop a violent crime....

In just one year, 1.6 million people will have used a gun to save lives and stop violent crime vs. 339,000 who will die by guns over 10 years....but that number obviously also includes suicides since the FBI stats put gun murders at 8-9,000 each year...so over 10 years that would be about 90,000 gun deaths....

So, guns are used 1.6 million times a year to save lives and stop violent crime vs. 90,000 people murdered by guns over 10 years, 80% of those murders committed by gang members in democrat controlled inner cities...

Your numbers don't match up to the good that guns create by allowing innocent people to protect themselves....

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I have an excellent memory. I have never made the argument that alcohol and guns were a good mixture. You are a liar.

I said that it was ridiculous and dangerous to pass a law that you were allowed to carry a gun in a bar. You disagreed and said that you and your friends always carry when you go to the bar.

Yes I disagreed. Not everyone that goes into a bar drinks to excess. And no, I never said that me and my friends always carry in a bar. It is illegal to carry a firearm in any establishment where alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts.

One of the participants in this exchange is not being truthful.

That would be you.

Yes, I just make up things like this. Too bad your memory is so poor, but unlike you, I do not call people liars when they call me on something that I said.

Fact is you lied. I never made the argument that alcohol and guns was a good mix.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I have an excellent memory. I have never made the argument that alcohol and guns were a good mixture. You are a liar.

I said that it was ridiculous and dangerous to pass a law that you were allowed to carry a gun in a bar. You disagreed and said that you and your friends always carry when you go to the bar.

Yes I disagreed. Not everyone that goes into a bar drinks to excess. And no, I never said that me and my friends always carry in a bar. It is illegal to carry a firearm in any establishment where alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts.

People who do drink to excess should not have the law on their side about carrying guns in a bar. It should be illegal.

It is illegal. I have said as much. So what are you bitching about?

However, I don't think it should be illegal to open or conceal carry in a bar, I do think it should remain illegal to carry while you're intoxicated.

The best way to avoid this is not to carry a firearm in a bar.

Some of us have self control and can go to a bar and have a few drinks without getting intoxicated. Some of us can go to a club to see a band and not have any alcoholic beverages at all.

 

[NoNukes]

I said that it was ridiculous and dangerous to pass a law that you were allowed to carry a gun in a bar. You disagreed and said that you and your friends always carry when you go to the bar.

Yes I disagreed. Not everyone that goes into a bar drinks to excess. And no, I never said that me and my friends always carry in a bar. It is illegal to carry a firearm in any establishment where alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts.

One of the participants in this exchange is not being truthful.

That would be you.

Yes, I just make up things like this. Too bad your memory is so poor, but unlike you, I do not call people liars when they call me on something that I said.

Fact is you lied. I never made the argument that alcohol and guns was a good mix.

Thinking it is OK for you and your friends to carry when you go out for a drink is mixing alcohol and firearms.

 

[NoNukes]

I said that it was ridiculous and dangerous to pass a law that you were allowed to carry a gun in a bar. You disagreed and said that you and your friends always carry when you go to the bar.

Yes I disagreed. Not everyone that goes into a bar drinks to excess. And no, I never said that me and my friends always carry in a bar. It is illegal to carry a firearm in any establishment where alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts.

People who do drink to excess should not have the law on their side about carrying guns in a bar. It should be illegal.

It is illegal. I have said as much. So what are you bitching about?

However, I don't think it should be illegal to open or conceal carry in a bar, I do think it should remain illegal to carry while you're intoxicated.

The best way to avoid this is not to carry a firearm in a bar.

Some of us have self control and can go to a bar and have a few drinks without getting intoxicated. Some of us can go to a club to see a band and not have any alcoholic beverages at all.

You never know how a few drinks is going to effect you. Sometimes it hits you stronger than other times. It is the nature of drink. Why do you need a firearm when you go to hear a band?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Yes I disagreed. Not everyone that goes into a bar drinks to excess. And no, I never said that me and my friends always carry in a bar. It is illegal to carry a firearm in any establishment where alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts.

One of the participants in this exchange is not being truthful.

That would be you.

Yes, I just make up things like this. Too bad your memory is so poor, but unlike you, I do not call people liars when they call me on something that I said.

Fact is you lied. I never made the argument that alcohol and guns was a good mix.

Thinking it is OK for you and your friends to carry when you go out for a drink is mixing alcohol and firearms.

Hey stupid, I never mentioned anything about "friends", that's another lie you perpetrated. Just because your weak ass can't control your drinking doesn't mean no one can. Grow the fuck up!!

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Yes I disagreed. Not everyone that goes into a bar drinks to excess. And no, I never said that me and my friends always carry in a bar. It is illegal to carry a firearm in any establishment where alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts.

People who do drink to excess should not have the law on their side about carrying guns in a bar. It should be illegal.

It is illegal. I have said as much. So what are you bitching about?

However, I don't think it should be illegal to open or conceal carry in a bar, I do think it should remain illegal to carry while you're intoxicated.

The best way to avoid this is not to carry a firearm in a bar.

Some of us have self control and can go to a bar and have a few drinks without getting intoxicated. Some of us can go to a club to see a band and not have any alcoholic beverages at all.

You never know how a few drinks is going to effect you. Sometimes it hits you stronger than other times. It is the nature of drink. Why do you need a firearm when you go to hear a band?

I know exactly how drinking affects me you retarded fuck. I know my limitations when it comes to alcohol. It's not a matter of "need" you idiot.

 

[jon_berzerk]

You are a liar.

You have no memory of the ridiculous things that you post.

I have an excellent memory. I have never made the argument that alcohol and guns were a good mixture. You are a liar.

I said that it was ridiculous and dangerous to pass a law that you were allowed to carry a gun in a bar. You disagreed and said that you and your friends always carry when you go to the bar.

Yes I disagreed. Not everyone that goes into a bar drinks to excess. And no, I never said that me and my friends always carry in a bar. It is illegal to carry a firearm in any establishment where alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts.

People who do drink to excess should not have the law on their side about carrying guns in a bar. It should be illegal.

it is illegal

what more you want