Do those with employer sponsored HC have a right to force others to pay for it?

[bripat9643]

Ummm...

All businesses pay employees with other peoples money. Unless it's not really a business and someone is just handing out cash.

A store buys a widget from ACME Manufacturing. It cost's them $10, they sell it for $12. They pay ACME the $10 for the widget. That leaves them with $2. Now sell a whole bunch of widgets, thingys, do-dads, and nick-a-brick. You now have money to pay expenses such as rent, utilities, employees, etc.

In each case the money comes from other people. Therefore all businesses pay their employee with money that comes from other people.


>>>>

Soooo, getting back to the takers cruising along on their employers' tax break-provided health insurance and bitching about "paying for somebody else" - i.e., those who provide their own insurance...what say you?

Here's the solution: make all healthcare expenditures tax deductible. Somehow I believe you won't approve.

Are you sure you are right wing? Because that is the antithesis of conservatism.

So you think imposing taxes on everyone is "conservative" while eliminating some taxes is "liberal?"

I think giving you gifts at other people's expense is liberal.

Tax expenditures are the biggest government gift program out there, and they come at everyone's expense.

If everyone gets the same exemption, then it's not at anyone's expense.

 

[rdean]

Emergency room care will bankrupt this country. Republicans may believe in "let him die", but the rest of the country won't stand for it.

 

[bripat9643]

Emergency room care will bankrupt this country. Republicans may believe in "let him die", but the rest of the country won't stand for it.

Then why was my healthcare cheaper when deadbeats went to the emergency room?

 

[g5000]

Soooo, getting back to the takers cruising along on their employers' tax break-provided health insurance and bitching about "paying for somebody else" - i.e., those who provide their own insurance...what say you?

Here's the solution: make all healthcare expenditures tax deductible. Somehow I believe you won't approve.

Are you sure you are right wing? Because that is the antithesis of conservatism.

So you think imposing taxes on everyone is "conservative" while eliminating some taxes is "liberal?"

I think giving you gifts at other people's expense is liberal.

Tax expenditures are the biggest government gift program out there, and they come at everyone's expense.

If everyone gets the same exemption, then it's not at anyone's expense.

First, not everyone pays federal taxes. And the reason some people pay no taxes is because their exemptions, credits and deductions zero them out.

So it is at the expense of the people who do pay taxes.

How do you think the loss of revenues will be paid for? With higher tax rates.

Careful, you are right on the edge of advocating single payer health care! After all, if everyone gets an exemption for health care, that's a subsidy paid for by taxpayers.

 

[g5000]

Emergency room care will bankrupt this country. Republicans may believe in "let him die", but the rest of the country won't stand for it.

Then why was my healthcare cheaper when deadbeats went to the emergency room?

Your healthcare was cheaper in 2008 than it was in 2007. It was cheaper in 2007 than it was in 2006. It was cheaper in 2006 than it was in 2005.

Notice a pattern?

Health care costs have been outpacing inflation for decades. ObamaCare did not accelerate that trend.

 

[g5000]

Emergency room care will bankrupt this country. Republicans may believe in "let him die", but the rest of the country won't stand for it.

Emergency room care costs for the indigent adds up to only about $50 billion a year. A drop in the bucket.

 

[bripat9643]

Emergency room care will bankrupt this country. Republicans may believe in "let him die", but the rest of the country won't stand for it.

Then why was my healthcare cheaper when deadbeats went to the emergency room?

Your healthcare was cheaper in 2008 than it was in 2007. It was cheaper in 2007 than it was in 2006. It was cheaper in 2006 than it was in 2005.

Notice a pattern?

Health care costs have been outpacing inflation for decades. ObamaCare did not accelerate that trend.

It sure as hell did increase faster than inflation for everyone who has to pay the full cost and then subsidize a bunch of deadbeats.

 

[Arianrhod]

Soooo, getting back to the takers cruising along on their employers' tax break-provided health insurance and bitching about "paying for somebody else" - i.e., those who provide their own insurance...what say you?

Here's the solution: make all healthcare expenditures tax deductible. Somehow I believe you won't approve.

Even elective surgeries? Plastic surgeons would love that.

That's up to the legislature

As a matter of fact, there's already Form 1040, Schedule A, Line 1. "Medical and dental expenses."

Not sure what you'd want to add to that.

You only get to deduct them if they are over $7000.

Many Americans have annual medical expenses that high.

 

[bripat9643]

Here's the solution: make all healthcare expenditures tax deductible. Somehow I believe you won't approve.

Even elective surgeries? Plastic surgeons would love that.

That's up to the legislature

As a matter of fact, there's already Form 1040, Schedule A, Line 1. "Medical and dental expenses."

Not sure what you'd want to add to that.

You only get to deduct them if they are over $7000.

Many Americans have annual medical expenses that high.

My insurance premiums alone were more than that, but I only get to deduct the amount over $7000. Not much of a benefit.

 

[OKTexas]

Great, you push for the employees to pay taxes on their benefits packages and then sit back and watch every union abandon your party.

No, I'd get rid of the packages in exchange for tax credits to individuals. Partly because if an individual is purchasing a service in a free market, they'll typically chose the most efficient service.

But the point of the thread is to expose the hypocrisy of those complaining their taxes go to obamacare, when in fact, their employer sponsored plans are paid for with taxes.

Yet you still want it to be taxpayer funded, you just want to engage in accounting tricks.

IOW, "Please please please don't make my boss take away my health insurance!"

What? I don't have a boss.

So you're fine with those who do getting a free ride? That's very generous of you.

It didn't bother me, either, until they started acting all snotty about the PPACA, as if they had employer-provided insurance because they were somehow superior to everyone else.

The reason you're so clueless is you don't seem to realize that most employers don't pay 100% of an employees health care. The employees usually pay 20-40% of the premiums, co-pays and deductibles, so it's a long shot from a freebie. The portion that the employer pays is considered part of the compensation the employee makes for the work performed. If you don't like this benefit then you'll really hate the paid family leave that the employer will also be able to deduct as a business expense.

The average worker resented the fact that many would get benefits under the ACA and pay nothing for it, no work, no premiums, no co-pays and no deductibles. All paid by the working people. Then add to that their cost for lesser quality health care has gone up. Yep, their pissed, and justifiably so.

 

[OKTexas]

In 2008, employers with employer sponsored health insurance got 131 BILLION dollars in tax breaks.

What are the largest tax expenditures?

That tax break was paid for either with taxes on employers and employees without healthcare insurance, or deficit dollars passed on to children, who didn't get a vote.

That's only relevant if we were to assume the government is entitled to 100% of what corporations make.

Equating a lower tax burden with "getting" something only works if the gubmint is entitled to everything from you from the get-go. All that is happening is the government is taking less.. that is no gift.

It is a gift. Being taxed less than you would have been is, by definition, a gift.

If you are taxed less, someone else is taxed more to make up the difference. Your gift comes at someone else's expense.

It results in the insane system where people earning identical incomes are taxed wildly different amounts.

Eliminate all tax expenditures, and we could significantly lower tax rates, and balance the budget, and everyone earning identical incomes would pay identical taxes.

In 2008, employers with employer sponsored health insurance got 131 BILLION dollars in tax breaks.

What are the largest tax expenditures?

That tax break was paid for either with taxes on employers and employees without healthcare insurance, or deficit dollars passed on to children, who didn't get a vote.

Great, you push for the employees to pay taxes on their benefits packages and then sit back and watch every union abandon your party.

Employer-sponsored health insurance is a massive labor boondoggle, and needs to go away.

Your employer's share of your health insurance payments is income not taxed. This is the single largest individual tax expenditure, and it causes all of us to have to pay higher tax rates.

Simply eliminate the employer sponsorship of health insurance, and replace it with pay which you would use to buy your own insurance yourself.

Sorry, money not collected can not be an expenditure. You are required to have it, before you can spend it.