Do Morals Stem From Religion?

[Hobbit]

It is my belief that individual morals stem from upbringing. However, it is a historical fact that societal morals stem from religious laws. Even if you are an atheist, whatever morals you have can be traced back to a religion. Whether those religious laws are a product of an actual, living God who handed them down to man or the product of a society figuring out what is right or wrong on their own and crediting it to a divine being is the subject of debate. So even if you believe there is not God and that society figured out morals on their own, all morals can be traced back to some religion.

 

[HorhayAtAMD]

I think the "evolution" of morals in society is quite Darwinian in nature. Morals that work, survive and morals that don't, don't survive. The golden rule (do unto others) didn't survive by accident, it survived because as homo sapiens began to aggregate in larger groups, the groups that did not live by that rule ended up destroying themselves, or were never quite as successful as the groups around them and ended up being destroyed. From there, religions recorded and fine tuned moral codes and made it simpler for the "common" man to understand.

 

[archangel]

I think the "evolution" of morals in society is quite Darwinian in nature. Morals that work, survive and morals that don't, don't survive. The golden rule (do unto others) didn't survive by accident, it survived because as homo sapiens began to aggregate in larger groups, the groups that did not live by that rule ended up destroying themselves, or were never quite as successful as the groups around them and ended up being destroyed. From there, religions recorded and fine tuned moral codes and made it simpler for the "common" man to understand.

Religion was around long before Darwin.....geeez! :rotflmao:

ps: remember credit where credit is due...words to live by!

 

[HorhayAtAMD]

Religion was around long before Darwin.....geeez! :rotflmao:

And Newton's laws were around long before Newton! If you want though, strike the word "Darwin" from my post and everything still stands.

 

[archangel]

And Newton's laws were around long before Newton! If you want though, strike the word "Darwin" from my post and everything still stands.

Newtons law was based on the man who wrote it... not" nature "who...established it..then again maybe "God"
I am amazed with your profound statement though...alot of thought no doubt!
I am not trying to be condescending...just calling them as I see them!

 

[Max Power]

If we follow your line of thinking, then nobody is moral (yourself included). So now what?

Example: Speeding... Pretty much EVERYONE speeds (if you go 26 in a 25, 56 in a 55, you are speeding, you know). Those that don't do it aren't doing it not because it's wrong, but because the probability that they'll get caught is pretty high.

Are you telling us that you follow every single rule, and obey every single law to the letter? If you say yes, I'd bet you're lying.

Rules and laws are not equal to morals.
It's certainly not immoral to speed.
It's also not illegal to do any number of immoral things.

 

[archangel]

Rules and laws are not equal to morals.
It's certainly not immoral to speed.
It's also not illegal to do any number of immoral things.

There are alot of laws based on immoral practice...rape being one...in Biblical times all one had to do was marry the offended party to satisfy the parents.... beastiality is illegal in all states of the union...as is sexual crimes against children.... the list goes on and on...all are based on moral issues....what say you now?

 

[Max Power]

GOP Jeff got it right...after all where did the parents and ancestors for that matter come up with the "Golden Rule"...it sure was not DNA...Most likely religious teachings....sometimes people seem to prefer connecting to PC attitudes rather than address the truth! :scratch:

That's not necessarily true.

Humans are social animals. We began in small tribes or communities. Those communities with members who would care for one another would be more successful than other communities.
Thus, the evolution of caring for one another.

However, as has already been pointed out, morals are more than just altruism among kin. Perhaps that is just a stepping stone.

*Edit
I see that HorhayAtAMD said this before I did!

 

[Max Power]

It is my belief that individual morals stem from upbringing. However, it is a historical fact that societal morals stem from religious laws. Even if you are an atheist, whatever morals you have can be traced back to a religion. Whether those religious laws are a product of an actual, living God who handed them down to man or the product of a society figuring out what is right or wrong on their own and crediting it to a divine being is the subject of debate. So even if you believe there is not God and that society figured out morals on their own, all morals can be traced back to some religion.

Not necessarily. There easily could have been morals, if not a specific moral code, among people long before religion was ever created.

The golden rule is quite simple, and since people were definately living together, people were probably taught to be kind to each other.

 

[Max Power]

There are alot of laws based on immoral practice...rape being one...in Biblical times all one had to do was marry the offended party to satisfy the parents.... beastiality is illegal in all states of the union...as is sexual crimes against children.... the list goes on and on...all are based on moral issues....what say you now?

Shaq is tall, Shaq is black, therefore all tall people are black? No.

Moral and legal are not mutually exclusive concepts.

For example, speeding is illegal, but not necessarily immoral.
Slave owning in the 1800s was legal, but immoral.

 

[GotZoom]

Rules and laws are not equal to morals.
It's certainly not immoral to speed.
It's also not illegal to do any number of immoral things.

morality
1. The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct.
2. A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct: religious morality; Christian morality.
3. Virtuous conduct.
4. A rule or lesson in moral conduct.


Doing right or good conduct...right and wrong conduct. Speeding is wrong conduct. By definition, if you speed, you doing the wrong conduct. The consequence is a ticket. If speeding wasn't wrong, there would not be a consequence.

You say "It's also not illegal to do any number of immoral things."

Is your definition of "legal" only by the law? Or legal in the eyes of society? The eyes of God?

Give me a few examples of legal things to do that aren't immoral.

 

[Max Power]

morality
1. The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct.
2. A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct: religious morality; Christian morality.
3. Virtuous conduct.
4. A rule or lesson in moral conduct.

We are really discussing the third definition of moralilty, out of those four.

Doing right or good conduct...right and wrong conduct. Speeding is wrong conduct. By definition, if you speed, you doing the wrong conduct. The consequence is a ticket. If speeding wasn't wrong, there would not be a consequence.

So, if standing up against Hitler would've gotten you killed, that would've been the "wrong" thing to do? No... it would've been the right thing to do, the moral thing to do.

You say "It's also not illegal to do any number of immoral things."

Is your definition of "legal" only by the law? Or legal in the eyes of society? The eyes of God?

The law.

Give me a few examples of legal things to do that aren't immoral.

I assume you mean legal things that ARE immoral... and I gave the example in my last post of legally owning slaves in the 19th century.

 

[GotZoom]

We are really discussing the third definition of moralilty, out of those four.


So, if standing up against Hitler would've gotten you killed, that would've been the "wrong" thing to do? No... it would've been the right thing to do, the moral thing to do.


The law.


I assume you mean legal things that ARE immoral... and I gave the example in my last post of legally owning slaves in the 19th century.

I trust we aren't going back in history to discuss morality. If so, this conversation is kind of pointless. We need to apply this to today's society.

Virtuous behaviour is the standard for defining morality in your argument. There are many things that are not virtuous that are illegal.

Walking this tightrope of the law defining what is virtuous. Can they reallyl do that?

 

[MissileMan]

Most species have a built in prohibition against killing their own. I would say it's safe to assume that any laws we have against killing find their origins in our innate programming.

 

[archangel]

Shaq is tall, Shaq is black, therefore all tall people are black? No.

Moral and legal are not mutually exclusive concepts.

For example, speeding is illegal, but not necessarily immoral.
Slave owning in the 1800s was legal, but immoral.

What the hell has DNA have to do with moral law...beyond my comprehension....sorry ya lost me on this diatribe!

 

[Max Power]

I trust we aren't going back in history to discuss morality. If so, this conversation is kind of pointless. We need to apply this to today's society.

Virtuous behaviour is the standard for defining morality in your argument. There are many things that are not virtuous that are illegal.

There are many people who are tall who live in Detroit. That doesn't mean the two things are related in any way.

I'm not the first person to say that - you cannot legislate morality.

Walking this tightrope of the law defining what is virtuous. Can they reallyl do that?

What do you mean?

 

[Max Power]

What the hell has DNA have to do with moral law...beyond my comprehension....sorry ya lost me on this diatribe!

That post was just pointing out that legality and morality are not necessarily tied together.


See HorhayAtAMD's post regarding DNA and morality.

 

[archangel]

That post was just pointing out that legality and morality are not necessarily tied together.


See HorhayAtAMD's post regarding DNA and morality.

You obviously have drunk way to much of the Liberal coolaid...all laws are based on morality....as the saying goes... by Dr.Savage....."Liberalism is a mental disease" please do us all a favor..seek professional help...you are definetly beyond my expertise!

 

[Max Power]

You obviously have drunk way to much of the Liberal coolaid...all laws are based on morality....as the saying goes... by Dr.Savage....."Liberalism is a mental disease" please do us all a favor..seek professional help...you are definetly beyond my expertise!

I take it by your flaming that you have no clue what you're talking about, so you resort to insults. Very poor, archangel.

We're not discussing liberalism btw.

all laws are based on morality

That's ridiculous and wrong. I'd say that most laws are probably based on economics.

 

[dilloduck]

I take it by your flaming that you have no clue what you're talking about, so you resort to insults. Very poor, archangel.

We're not discussing liberalism btw.



That's ridiculous and wrong. I'd say that most laws are probably based on economics.

you would be wrong, however there are a multitude of religious beliefs pertaining to greed ,temptation and the difficulty with which a rich man may enter heaven.