Do Faithful Muslims Lie?

This concludes the demonstration of muslim proof.
It doesn’t hold up to scrutiny of any kind.

Mr.Kalam posted 1 thing that was contradicted at the bottom of the page he didn’t include a link to, then he repudiated his proof and added another source which was contradicted in the same document .Which he would not give a link to.

Mr.kalam when confronted with the evidence. Slings insults
claims offense and secret superior knowledge .
He is willing to teach ,if I'll just stop wiggling in my seat.
Its a good but transparent play, invent some high moral ground.

His gambit, no will read the evidence from his sources and in most cases he will be correct.
People want their knowledge predigested delivered in convenient small bites.
And they don’t want to hear anything that contradicts their preconceived notions.

If you want to know what Islam is about, you can be lead down a garden path by people like Mr.Kalam or you have to read the "scripture " and you have to read the "scripture "in order it was concocted in and in the context of the day to day life of Islam’s only "prophet".

I recommend reading Guillaume’s book first then reading the Quran.and then doing it again and again adding the Tafsirs and all the hadith as you can digest .



That mean opening Author: Ibn Ishaq/A. Guillaume
Publisher: Oxford University Press
Pages: 813 Binding: Hardback

Description from the publisher:

Professor Guillaume's translation of the Sira of Ibn Iss-Haq is now reissued. The translator used Ibn Hisham's abridgement and also included many additions and variants found in the writings of early authors. The book thus presents in English practically all that is known of the life of the Prophet. In the introduction, the translator discusses the character of the Sira in the light of the opinion of early Arabian scholars, noting especially the difficulties of the poetry. As the earliest monument of Arabian prose literature, the Sira remains a work of the first importance.

The Life of Muhammad: Translation of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah
Sirat Rasoul Allah

Its worth the effort to know for certain, one way or the other.
 
I asked a question elsewhere about the need for a Muslim to be truthful to a non-Muslim, and received this response:

The correct form of "lying" you are referring to (taqiyya and kitman) has no real word for it in English. I guess the "long definition" would be "deceiving your oppressors in time of great calamity."

The closest non-Muslim example I can think of would be when certain German Christians hid innocent Jews from the hungry jaws of the Nazi terror machine. THAT would be a perfect example of Taqiyya.

You can't lie. That is very blatantly stated in Islam.

What you CAN do, however, is tell "half-truths". Drawing once again on the example of Nazi Germany, if the SS came to a German Christian's front door, and asked whether or not he had seen any Jews for the past few days, "kitman" would be as follows:

The German says "I haven't seen them anywhere."

What he doesn't add is that he's HEARD about where the Jews are running, and so he has succeeded in keeping the Jews safe while still telling the truth. That is an example of kitman.

And a Muslim performing taqiyya is a paradox. Taqiyya is when a Muslim hides his or her faith from the state in times of oppression, and has nothing to do with lying for personal benefit. The people who promote forth the theory of "actively lying to the infidel West" are Muslim versions of the KKK, and simply no better than that.

Comments? Or are we ready to quit beating the "Muslims cannot be trusted" horse now?

"You can't lie. That is very blatantly stated in Islam."
Take a trip over there and see what happens. They don't lie they will just tell you "inshallah" if you catch them in a lie; basically meaning that allah (GOD) didn't allow them to tell you the truth.
 
Take a trip over there and see what happens. They don't lie they will just tell you "inshallah" if you catch them in a lie; basically meaning that allah (GOD) didn't allow them to tell you the truth.
That's a bunch of total BS

Inshallah is NOT said to cover a lie or half-truth.

Really? then explain what it's used for. There are many instances I've talked to people overseas and caught them in a lie and was told inshallah.

Don't take it the wrong why; if I'm wrong then let me know, that's the only way people learn.
 
Inshallah means in "God's Will"

If I am to meet you at 4 o'clock for a meeting tomorrow.

A muslim will say, "I will meet you at 4 o'clock Inshallah.

In other words, I will be there at 4 unless God has other ideas; flat tire, illness, etc.

True, some muslims abuse the term in order to arrive late or not show up.

Kind of like you alluded to.

But that is abusing the term and is against Islam.

It is a grave sin to use the word Inshallah to cover up a lie.
 
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Inshallah means in "God's Will"

If I am to meet you at 4 o'clock for a meeting tomorrow.

A muslim will say, "I will meet you at 4 o'clock Inshallah.

In other words, I will be there at 4 unless God has other ideas; flat tire, illness, etc.

True, some muslims abuse the term in order to arrive late or not show up.

Kind of like you alluded to.

But that is abusing the term and is against Islam.

It is a grave sin to use the word Inshallah to cover up any lie or half truth.

Fair enough. I'll agree that your example is a good way to use the phase, but that's not the way I've heard it used over the past 7 years.

If it's a "grave sin" to do that; then I know a lot of people that's going to be disappointed when they arrive at judgment.
 
Fair enough. I'll agree that your example is a good way to use the phase, but that's not the way I've heard it used over the past 7 years.

If it's a "grave sin" to do that; then I know a lot of people that's going to be disappointed when they arrive at judgment.
Sorry if I was too harsh in my reply earlier.

Many people here attack Muslims and Islam with all kinds of crazy non sense.

Anyone who would say Inshallah, God's Will, to cover up a lie is in danger of the Hell's fire.

Because God doesn't lie, nor does he cover up lies. :cool:
 
Fair enough. I'll agree that your example is a good way to use the phase, but that's not the way I've heard it used over the past 7 years.

If it's a "grave sin" to do that; then I know a lot of people that's going to be disappointed when they arrive at judgment.
Sorry if I was too harsh in my reply earlier.

Many people here attack Muslims and Islam with all kinds of crazy non sense.

Anyone who would say Inshallah, God's Will, to cover up a lie is in danger of the Hell's fire.

Because God doesn't lie, nor does he cover up lies. :cool:

No worries, your reply wasn't taken as harsh. Not attacking Muslims or Islam, only submitting my opinion to the original question. Muslim, Jew, Christian doesn't matter, it's all GOD when you get to the down of the religion; so attacking Islam, Jew, or Christian is attacking GOD. And I've never seen where doing that has worked out well.
 
MrFistnuts, "in times of necessity" can you sell one of your wives or even pawn her for a short while for a few bucks?
 
Hey Sunni do you agree with the sharia concept "in times of necessity the halal is permitted" ?
Don't you mean haram?

Yeah thanks .

To answer your question Mr. Fitnah.

An example would be if a muslin was on a plane that crashed on a small island in the middle of the ocean.

Let's say the island had no fresh water, no animals, and the surrounding water was too deep for fishing. Plus you didn't have anything to fish with.

You find that the air planes cargo hold is full of cases of beer and wine. And also cans of ham.

Rather than starve to death, you are allowed to eat and drink from the available supplies until rescued.

In Islam, Allah is merciful, and the value of the muslims life is above the prohibited.
 
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Don't you mean haram?

Yeah thanks .

To answer your question Mr. Fitnah.

An example would be if a muslin was on a plane that crashed on a small island in the middle of the ocean.

Let's say the island had no fresh water, no animals, and the surrounding water was too deep for fishing. Plus you didn't have anything to fish with.

You find that the air planes cargo hold is full of cases of beer and wine. And also cans of ham.

Rather than starve to death, you are allowed to eat and drink from the available supplies until rescued.

In Islam, Allah is merciful, and the value of the muslims life is above the prohibited.

So if that same muslim is stranded on a desert island with only young boys, he can...? :lol:
 
Don't you mean haram?

Yeah thanks .

To answer your question Mr. Fitnah.

An example would be if a muslin was on a plane that crashed on a small island in the middle of the ocean.

Let's say the island had no fresh water, no animals, and the surrounding water was too deep for fishing. Plus you didn't have anything to fish with.

You find that the air planes cargo hold is full of cases of beer and wine. And also cans of ham.

Rather than starve to death, you are allowed to eat and drink from the available supplies until rescued.

In Islam, Allah is merciful, and the value of the muslims life is above the prohibited.
But the lives of disbelievers is of much less value that what is prohibited

Shirk is worse than Killing

Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing. Abu Malik commented about what Allah said:



(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) Meaning what you (disbelievers) are committing is much worse than killing.'' Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Sa`id bin Jubayr, `Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that what Allah said:



(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) "Shirk (polytheism) is worse than killing.''

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir
 
OK, I am going to give up on you Mr. Fitnah.

You had ask me a good question.

So I answered it the best way I knew how and thought we just might have an intelligent discussion.

You then come back with some nonsense that isn't even remotely related to the topic or answer that I gave.

Something about shirk, jihad, and killing. :cuckoo:

Bye
 
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Hey Fitnuts, your girlfriend Dis warned me not to mess with you any more cuz you're such a fragile carpet kisser. I think she has a thing for douchebags.
 
OK, I am going to give up on you Mr. Fitnah.

You had ask me a good question.

So I answered it the best way I knew how and thought we just might have an intelligent discussion.

You then come back with some nonsense that isn't even remotely related to the topic or answer that I gave.

Something about shirk, jihad, and killing. :cuckoo:

Bye

07-14-2009, 06:18 PM
Mr. Fitnah, your veiled questions and accusations against Islam and Muslims is getting very tedious and basically boring.

So unless you have something of substance or interest to address.

I am going to bow out of this useless dialogue.

If you you could have added anything intelligent to the discussion you would have done so at some point since 7-14-2009. I have not been holding my breath


No, I am not an expert on Islam.

I have proven that.
 

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