Do Faithful Muslims Lie?

[Mr.Fitnah]

If you can read, it is all about justification for Islamic supremacy and the divine right to oppress those who disbelieve.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Of course if you want to read it all in context
Kalamullah.Com | In the Shade of the Qur'an | Fi Dhilal al-Quran

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Book Review From Prison:

By Imam Anwar al-Awlaki

This work by the Shaheed -by the will of Allah- along with “Milestones” represent his greatest works and the fruits of his life. I received 5 of the 6 volumes along with Madarij al Salikeen as the first books I was allowed to have. This came after a period of two months with nothing but the Quran. Having had the chance to spend that time with the book of Allah and to contemplate on it, I wanted to read what our scholars had to say about Quran so I ordered Tafsir Ibn Kathir which is a proper classical tafsir along with “In the Shade of the Quran” which is more about thoughts and insights on the book of Allah in addition to it being a contemporary tafsir.

Kalamullah.Com | In the Shade of the Qur'an | Fi Dhilal al-Quran

BREAKING NEWS: TERROR IMAM ANWAR AL-AWLAKI INVITED TO PENTAGON AFTER 9-11


Muslim cleric Anwar Al-Awlaki, a U.S. born citizen and former San Diego and Virginia Imam was invited and attended a meeting inside the Pentagon only months after the 9-11 terrorist attacks. The meeting was disclosed as a part of the FBI investigation into the Fort Hood massacre investigation of Major Nidal Hasan, who is currently on trial for the murder of 13 people at the U.S. Army base in Texas last November. The story was first reported by Fox News National Security correspondent Catherine Herridge.

Al-Awlaki who has been linked to multiple terrorist acts inside the United States is currently believed to be in Yemen. The United States has reportedly placed him on a CIA list authorizing his targeted killing if he is found.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Its like a nightmare isnt it Mr. Kalam
the way I misunderstand and misinterpret Islam?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Back to my original question.
Here is the proper proper classical tafsir
to Surah 8 ayat 39


The Order to fight to eradicate Shirk and Kufr





Allah said,


﴿وَقَـتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ كُلُّهُ لِلهِ﴾


(And fight them until there is no more Fitnah, and the religion will all be for Allah alone.)


Al-Bukhari recorded that a man came to Ibn `Umar and said to him, "O Abu `Abdur-Rahman! Why do you not implement what Allah said in His Book,


﴿وَإِن طَآئِفَتَانِ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ اقْتَتَلُواْ﴾


(And if two parties (or groups) among the believers fall to fighting...)﴿49:9﴾. What prevents you from fighting as Allah mentioned in His Book'' Ibn `Umar said, "O my nephew! I prefer that I be reminded with this Ayah rather than fighting, for in the latter case, I will be reminded by the Ayah in which Allah, the Exalted and Most Honored, said,


﴿وَمَن يَقْتُلْ مُؤْمِناً مُّتَعَمِّداً﴾


(And whoever kills a believer intentionally...) ﴿4:93﴾''


The man said, "Allah, the Exalted, said,


﴿وَقَـتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ﴾


(And fight them until there is no more Fitnah...).'' Ibn `Umar said, "We did that during the time of the Messenger of Allah, when Islam was weak and the man would be tried in religion, either tormented to death or being imprisoned. When Islam became stronger and widespread, there was no more Fitnah.'' When the man realized that Ibn `Umar would not agree to what he is saying, he asked him, "What do you say about `Ali and `Uthman'' Ibn `Umar replied, "What do I say about `Ali and `Uthman! As for `Uthman, Allah has forgiven him, but you hate that Allah forgives him. As for `Ali, he is the cousin of the Messenger of Allah and his son-in-law,'' and he pointed with his hand saying, "And this is his house over there.'' Sa`id bin Jubayr said, "Ibn `Umar came to us and was asked, "What do you say about fighting during Fitnah'' Ibn `Umar said, "Do you know what Fitnah refers to Muhammad was fighting against the idolators, and at that time, attending (or residing with) the idolators was a Fitnah (trial in religion). It is nothing like what you are doing, fighting to gain leadership!'' All these narrations were collected by Al-Bukhari, may Allah the Exalted grant him His mercy. Ad-Dahhak reported that Ibn `Abbas said about the Ayah,


﴿وَقَـتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ﴾


(And fight them until there is no more Fitnah...) "So that there is no more Shirk.'' Similar was said by Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ar-Rabi` bin Anas, As-Suddi, Muqatil bin Hayyan and Zayd bin Aslam. Muhammad bin Ishaq said that he was informed from Az-Zuhri, from `Urwah bin Az-Zubayr and other scholars that


﴿حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ﴾


(until there is no more Fitnah) the Fitnah mentioned here means, until no Muslim is persecuted so that he abandons his religion. Ad-Dahhak reported that Ibn `Abbas said about Allah's statement,


﴿وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ كُلُّهُ لِلهِ﴾


(and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah alone.) "So that Tawhid is practiced in sincerity with Allah.'' Al-Hasan, Qatadah and Ibn Jurayj said,


﴿وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ كُلُّهُ لِلهِ﴾


(and the religion will all be for Allah alone) "So that La ilaha illa-llah is proclaimed.'' Muhammad bin Ishaq also commented on this Ayah, "So that Tawhid is practiced in sincerity towards Allah, without Shirk, all the while shunning all rivals who (are being worshipped) besides Him.''


`Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam said about,


﴿وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ كُلُّهُ لِلهِ﴾


(and the religion will all be for Allah alone) "So that there is no more Kufr (disbelief) with your religion remains.'' There is a Hadith collected in the Two Sahihs that testifies to this explanation. The Messenger of Allah said,


«أُمِرْتُ أَنْ أُقَاتِلَ النَّاسَ، حَتَّى يَقُولُوا: لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا اللهُ، فَإِذَا قَالُوهَا عَصَمُوا مِنِّي دِمَاءَهُمْ وَأَمْوَالَهُمْ، إِلَّا بِحَقِّهَا، وَحِسَابُهُمْ عَلَى اللهِ عَزَّ وَجَل»


(I was commanded to fight against the people until they proclaim, `There is no deity worthy of worship except Allah.' If and when they say it, they will preserve their blood and wealth from me, except for its right (Islamic penal code), and their reckoning is with Allah, the Exalted and Most Honored.)


Also, in the Two Sahihs, it is recorded that Abu Musa Al-Ash`ari said, "The Messenger of Allah was asked about a man who fights because he is courageous, in prejudice with his people, or to show off. Which of these is for the cause of Allah He said,


«مَنْ قَاتَلَ لِتَكُونَ كَلِمَةُ اللهِ هِيَ الْعُلْيَا فَهُوَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللهِ عَزَّ وَجَل»


(Whoever fights so that Allah's Word is the supreme, is in the cause of Allah, the Exalted and Most Honored.)''


Allah said next,


﴿فَإِنِ انْتَهَوْاْ﴾


(But if they cease), and desist from their Kufr as a result of your fighting them, even though you do not know the true reasons why they did so,


﴿فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ بِمَا يَعْمَلُونَ بَصِيرٌ﴾


(then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.)


Allah said in similar Ayah,


﴿فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلَوةَ وَءاتَوُاْ الزَّكَوةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ﴾


(But if they repent and perform the Salah, and give Zakah, then leave their way free.) ﴿9:5﴾,


﴿فَإِخوَانُكُمْ فِى الدِّينِ﴾


(...then they are your brethren in religion.) ﴿9:11﴾, and,


﴿وَقَـتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ للَّهِ فَإِنِ انتَهَواْ فَلاَ عُدْوَنَ إِلاَّ عَلَى الظَّـلِمِينَ ﴾


(And fight them until there is no more Fitnah and the religion (worship) is for Allah (alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against the wrongdoers.) ﴿2:193﴾


It is recorded in the Sahih that the Messenger of Allah said to Usamah bin Zayd when he overpowered a man with his sword, after that man proclaimed that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah;


«أَقَتَلْتَهُ بَعْدَ مَا قَالَ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا اللهُ؟ وَكَيْفَ تَصْنَعُ بِلَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا اللهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ؟»


(Have you killed him after he proclaimed, `La Ilaha Illallah' What would you do with regard to `La Ilaha Illallah' on the Day of Resurrection.)


Usamah said, "O Allah's Messenger! He only said it to save himself.'' The Messenger replied,


«هَلَّا شَقَقْتَ عَنْ قَلْبِهِ؟»


(Did you cut his heart open)


The Messenger kept repeating,


«مَنْ لَكَ بِلَا إِلهَ إِلَّا اللهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ؟»


(What would you do with regard to `La Ilaha Illallah' on the Day of Resurrection) until Usamah said, "I wished I had embraced Islam only that day.'' Allah said next,


﴿وَإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللَّهَ مَوْلاَكُمْ نِعْمَ الْمَوْلَى وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيرُ ﴾


(And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your protector, an excellent protector, and an excellent helper!)


Allah says, if the disbelievers persist in defying and fighting you, then know that Allah is your protector, master and supporter against your enemies. Verily, what an excellent protector and what an excellent supporter.


﴿وَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّمَا غَنِمْتُم مِّن شَىْءٍ فَأَنَّ للَّهِ خُمُسَهُ وَلِلرَّسُولِ وَلِذِى الْقُرْبَى وَالْيَتَـمَى وَالْمَسَـكِينِ وَابْنِ السَّبِيلِ إِن كُنتُمْ ءَامَنْتُم بِاللَّهِ وَمَآ أَنزَلْنَا عَلَى عَبْدِنَا يَوْمَ الْفُرْقَانِ يَوْمَ الْتَقَى الْجَمْعَانِ وَاللَّهُ عَلَى كُلِّ شَىْءٍ قَدِيرٌ ﴾


(41. And know that whatever of war booty that you may gain, verily, one-fifth of it is assigned to Allah, and to the Messenger, and to the near relatives (of the Messenger), the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer, if you have believed in Allah and in that which We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Criterion, the Day when the two forces met; and Allah is able to do all things.)

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Thanks for proving my point again Mr. kalam, you are as always a tool in the hand of Mr.Fitnah.

 

[Kalam]

Do you have a links for what you posted,
Id be real interested in reading that stuff.

Tafseer Ibn Abbas, Jami' al-Bayan 'an Ta'wil ay al-Qur'an (Tafseer at-Tabari), Fi Dhilal al-Qur'an. The passage from at-Tabari was quoted by Qutb and can be found in his tafseer of Surat at-Tawbah.

So the answer is no.
I always include a link with any opinion of a scholar when I post,
Why do you fail to do so?

Because not everything is available online and in translation.

Most of what I don't have in print is in PDF form, so you may be able to find it on scribd or some similar document database.

 

[Kalam]

If you can read, it is all about justification for Islamic supremacy and the divine right to oppress those who disbelieve.

Oh, really?

 

[Kalam]

Of course if you want to read it all in context
Kalamullah.Com | In the Shade of the Qur'an | Fi Dhilal al-Quran

Good, you found a link!

Isn't it amazing what Google can do for you?

 

[Kalam]

Its like a nightmare isnt it Mr. Kalam
the way I misunderstand and misinterpret Islam?

Maybe it is for you. Pontificating nonsensically about something you don't understand can't quite be considered "understanding" or "interpreting", so no...

 

[Kalam]

Back to my original question.
Here is the proper proper classical tafsir

You say as you cite the endorsement of clown Anwar al-Awlaki.

You have been corrected by Qutb, Imam at-Tabari, and As-Sahabiyy Ibn 'Abbas. Thank you for acknowledging that you lie when you say you "follow the scholars"; following them isn't possible when you don't even know who they are or possess an iota of familiarity with their language.

 

[Kalam]

Thanks for proving my point again Mr. kalam, you are as always a tool in the hand of Mr.Fitnah.

If you're asking me to testify in support of your insanity plea then this isn't the best way of going about it. Phrase the request as a question and don't forget to say "please."

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

If you can read, it is all about justification for Islamic supremacy and the divine right to oppress those who disbelieve.

Oh, really?

Yeah in both cases
Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2868032-post181.html
Sayyid Qutb tafseer of Surat at-Tawbah
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2873744-post199.html
So what scholar are you going to quote that proves them wrong?
Ibn Kathir ?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

This is very interesting.
There is just to much to quote, every bit of it an indictment of Islam.
http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Fi Dhilal/Volume_7_(surah_8).pdf

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Back to my original question.
Here is the proper proper classical tafsir

You say as you cite the endorsement of clown Anwar al-Awlaki.

You have been corrected by Qutb, Imam at-Tabari, and As-Sahabiyy Ibn 'Abbas. Thank you for acknowledging that you lie when you say you "follow the scholars"; following them isn't possible when you don't even know who they are or possess an iota of familiarity with their language.

The clown Anwar al-Awlaki is used as an endorsement on the title page.
Kalamullah.Com | In the Shade of the Qur'an | Fi Dhilal al-Quran
You really need to read this stuff again, I read it years ago, it was one of the volumes I donated to the library it carries intellectual weight that your arguments lack.
I remember how my heart was pounding as I read the words that conveyed the simplicity and penetrating reason of Islam.
Unfortunately the whole thing is contrived to defend the honor of a liar and his thirst for vengeance .
http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Fi Dhilal/Volume_7_(surah_8).pdf
page 14

How Defensive Is Jihād?
When we understand the nature of Islam, as it has already been explained, we
realize the inevitability of jihād, or striving for God’s cause, taking a military form in
addition to its advocacy form. We will further recognize that jihād was never
defensive, in the narrow sense that the term `defensive war’ generally denotes today.
It is this narrow sense that is emphasized by the defeatists who succumb to the
pressure of the present circumstances and to the Orientalists’ wily attacks. Indeed the
concept of striving, or jihād, for God’s cause represents a positive movement that
aims to liberate man throughout the world, employing appropriate means to face
every situation at every stage.
If we must describe Islamic jihād as defensive, then we need to amend the
meaning of the term `defence’ so that it means the defending of mankind against all
factors that hinder their liberation and restrict their freedom. These may take the
form of concepts and beliefs, as well as political regimes that create economic, class
and racial distinctions. When Islam first came into existence, this world was full of
such hindrances, some forms of which persist in present- day jāhiliyyah.
When we give the term `defence’ such a broader meaning we can appreciate the
motives for Islamic jihād all over the world, and we can understand the nature of
Islam. Otherwise, any attempt to find defensive justification for jihād, within the
contemporary narrow sense of defence, betrays a lack of understanding of the nature
of Islam and its role in this world. Such attempts try to find any evidence to prove
that early Muslims went on jihād to repel aggression by their neighbours against the
Muslim land, which to some people is confined to the Arabian Peninsula. All this
betrays stark defeatism.
Had Abū Bakr, `Umar

It doesnt support your assertions at all unless you want to cherrypick arbitrary paragraphs and ignore the rest.
http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Fi Dhilal/Volume_7_(surah_8).pdf
Page 4/5

Thus, after the revelation of Sūrah 9, the unbelievers were in three different
categories with regard to the Prophet’s relations with them: combatants, or
bound by a specified-term treaty, or loyal. The second category embraced
Islam shortly thereafter, leaving the other two groups: combatants who
feared him, and those who were loyal.

Thus, all mankind were divided into
three classes: Muslims who believed in the Prophet’s message; those at peace
with him who enjoyed security; and those who were hostile and feared him.
As for the hypocrites, he was instructed to accept from them what they
professed, leaving the final verdict on them to God.

He was to strive against
them with informed argument. He was further instructed to turn away from
them and to be hard so that he would deliver his message to them in a way
that they could not refute.

He was forbidden to pray for them when they
died, or to visit their graves. He was informed that if he were to pray for them
to be forgiven, God would not forgive them.
Such was the Prophet’s policy towards his opponents, both unbelievers and
hypocrites.1

This excellent summary of the different stages of the development of jihād, or
striving for God’s cause, reveals a number of profound features of the Islamic blah blah blah

It goes on and on .

You are on track to becoming a believer, you have given up the Mu'tazili nonsense and changed your story on abrogation.
When you are finally arrested you will probably attribute me as the force behind your radicalization.

Keep studying Mr Kalam.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Al-Anfāl (The Spoils of War) | PROLOGUE
1 8

It is true that defending the homeland of Islam means protecting the faith, the way
of life and the Muslim community, all at the same time; but this is not the ultimate
objective of Islamic jihād. Defending the homeland of Islam is the means to establish

God’s authority within it, and to use it as the base from which to address all
mankind. Islam is a message to all humanity, and the whole earth is its sphere of
action.
As already stated, any effort that tries to spread the Islamic way of life is bound to
meet obstacles created by the power of the state, the social system and the general
environment. Islam aims to remove all these obstacles so that it can address people
freely, appealing to their minds and consciences, after breaking their fetters so that
they have genuine freedom of choice.

We must not be intimidated by the Orientalists’ attacks on the concept of Islamic
jihād, or allow the pressures of world political powers to weigh heavily on us, so as
to seek justifications for jihād that do not fit with the nature of Islam.

When we look at historical events, we must not lose sight of the inherent factors in
the nature of Islam, its universal declaration and practical way of life. We must not
confuse these with temporary defensive needs.

It was inevitable that Islam would
defend itself against aggression, because its very existence, general objective, the
movement it forms under a new leadership, and the birth of a new community which
recognizes only God’s sovereignty — all this is bound to provoke other societies,
based on jāhiliyyah, into trying to smash it in order to defend their own interests. It is
inevitable that the new Muslim community will also have to defend itself.
This is an
inescapable situation that arises with the advent of Islam in any society. There is no
question that Islam wants to fight such a battle; it is imposed on it, and the struggle
that follows is a natural one, between two systems that cannot co-exist for long.

All this is undeniable. Hence, Islam has no choice but to defend itself against aggression.

A much more important fact, however, is that, by nature, Islam will take the
initiative and move to save humanity and free people throughout the world from
servitude to anyone other than God. It is not possible that Islam will confine itself to
geographical boundaries, or racial limits, abandoning the rest of mankind and
leaving them to suffer from evil, corruption and servitude to lords other than God
Almighty.
A time may come when enemies of Islam may find it expedient not to try to
suppress Islam if it is willing to leave them alone, practising within their national
boundaries their own systems that allow some people to be lords over others. They
may offer such a state of coexistence if Islam is willing not to extend its declaration of
universal freedom to their people. But Islam will not accept such a truce, unless they
are willing to acknowledge its authority in the form of paying the loyalty or
submission tax, jizyah, to guarantee that the message of Islam may address their
people freely, without putting any material obstacle in its way

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Fi Dhilal/Volume_7_(surah_8).pdf

I guess they never heard the phrase if you dont start shit there wont be no shit.

It is to bad this is all to long and complicated for my many detractors

 

[Kalam]

You are on track to becoming a believer, you have given up the Mu'tazili nonsense and changed your story on abrogation.
When you are finally arrested you will probably attribute me as the force behind your radicalization.

Keep studying Mr Kalam.

If you want to continue floundering and drawing attention to the laughable stupidity of your posts with insults, feel free to do so, but know that you'll be doing so alone. If you want to continue the discussion, if it can be called that, you'll begin by apologizing for this silliness and acknowledging that this is not an exchange between equals. You're free to criticize the religion based on your limited knowledge of it and have your criticism addressed, but I have no interest in wasting my time with someone so deluded that they think that their knowledge of a religion about which they know next to nothing surpasses that of any of its dedicated adherents. Please let me know if this describes you so we can stop wasting each others' time. We all know that you'd throw one of your trademark hissy-fits if I began "teaching" you Christianity and speaking to you condescendingly about your own faith even though I'm significantly more familiar with its teachings and history than you are with those of Islam. Now, if you want to set the stage for actual discussion, highlight whatever questions or concerns you have.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

People can read mr.kalam.
Whether they do so is out of my control.
You introduced your evidence .
I used it to support the "Islamic world domination conspiracy theory"

You get no apologies, you have insulted me hundreds of times, You dont like it, dont do it yourself .You can pack up your side show or treat your evidence as hostile I dont care.
Your the one who keeps adjusting your view of Islam as you get schooled ,not me.
I told you your place long ago, you work for me, You are my tool.

Hissy-fits indeed, opps you just had another one.

 

[Kalam]

I told you your place long ago, you work for me, You are my tool.

It's this kind of childishness that I have no interest in dealing with.

You had an opportunity to change the tone of the debate and begin a productive discussion; as I suspected, you refused the opportunity in favor of more nonsense. If you ever decide that you want to grow up, you know what to do.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]