Do certain white collar criminals do more harm to society than the average murderer?

[Procrustes Stretched]

Reload this Page Do certain white collar criminals do more harm to society than the average murderer does?

Think about it. Who harms society most?

 

[Epsilon Delta]

They do harm to society in different ways. One's cost has immeasurable impact on a specific, concentrated context (murder), while the other's cost are diffused across entire society (corporate crime). Both are bad.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

They do harm to society in different ways. One's cost has immeasurable impact on a specific, concentrated context (murder), while the other's cost are diffused across entire society (corporate crime). Both are bad.

You did not answer the quantitative question of harm to society. Do you consider both to be equal in the harm they cause to society?

 

[George Costanza]

They do harm to society in different ways. One's cost has immeasurable impact on a specific, concentrated context (murder), while the other's cost are diffused across entire society (corporate crime). Both are bad.

You did not answer the quantitative question of harm to society. Do you consider both to be equal in the harm they cause to society?

Obviously, as phrased, white collar crime causes greater harm to society than murder, since white collar crimes (presumably) affect more members of society than does murder.

There are white collar crimes that are as individually selective as murder, by the way, such as identity theft. I think, however, the OP is referencing more the type of big scale white collar crimes that affect huge numbers of people.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

They do harm to society in different ways. One's cost has immeasurable impact on a specific, concentrated context (murder), while the other's cost are diffused across entire society (corporate crime). Both are bad.

You did not answer the quantitative question of harm to society. Do you consider both to be equal in the harm they cause to society?

Obviously, as phrased, white collar crime causes greater harm to society than murder, since white collar crimes (presumably) affect more members of society than does murder.

There are white collar crimes that are as individually selective as murder, by the way, such as identity theft. I think, however, the OP is referencing more the type of big scale white collar crimes that affect huge numbers of people.

 

[George Costanza]

You did not answer the quantitative question of harm to society. Do you consider both to be equal in the harm they cause to society?

Obviously, as phrased, white collar crime causes greater harm to society than murder, since white collar crimes (presumably) affect more members of society than does murder.

There are white collar crimes that are as individually selective as murder, by the way, such as identity theft. I think, however, the OP is referencing more the type of big scale white collar crimes that affect huge numbers of people.

Not so fast, Mojambo . . . there is still the little matter of the substantive nature of the crime involved and the degree of "harm" that is caused by its commission.

First off, murder is classified by the law as being a crime that is malum in se (bad in and of itself) while white collar crimes are classified as being crimes that are malum prohibitum (bad because society says so, rather than being inherently evil). To put it another way: a malum in se offense is "naturally evil as adjudged by the sense of a civilized community," whereas a malum prohibitum offense is wrong only because a statute makes it so.

It is obvious that murder is "bad." It is not so obvious that selling bogus securities or bundling bad mortgages are "bad" things to do.

One must ask, who has experienced more "harm" - the young widow with six children whose husband has been gunned down by gang crossfire, or a group of investors who lose money due to a white collar crime?

While everything is relative, I would submit that substantially more harm has come to the young widow than to any of the individual investors.

The question as posed in the OP is subject to a logical fallacy.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Obviously, as phrased, white collar crime causes greater harm to society than murder, since white collar crimes (presumably) affect more members of society than does murder.

There are white collar crimes that are as individually selective as murder, by the way, such as identity theft. I think, however, the OP is referencing more the type of big scale white collar crimes that affect huge numbers of people.

Not so fast, Mojambo . . . there is still the little matter of the substantive nature of the crime involved and the degree of "harm" that is caused by its commission.

First off, murder is classified by the law as being a crime that is malum in se (bad in and of itself) while white collar crimes are classified as being crimes that are malum prohibitum (bad because society says so, rather than being inherently evil). To put it another way: a malum in se offense is "naturally evil as adjudged by the sense of a civilized community," whereas a malum prohibitum offense is wrong only because a statute makes it so.

It is obvious that murder is "bad." It is not so obvious that selling bogus securities or bundling bad mortgages are "bad" things to do.

One must ask, who has experienced more "harm" - the young widow with six children whose husband has been gunned down by gang crossfire, or a group of investors who lose money due to a white collar crime?

While everything is relative, I would submit that substantially more harm has come to the young widow than to any of the individual investors.

The question as posed in the OP is subject to a logical fallacy.

I'm thinking more of a murderer and the harm they have caused society, and a white collar criminal who causes societal harm. Who has caused more harm to society -- the murderer or the white collar criminal?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

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The question as posed in the OP is subject to a logical fallacy.

Subject to a logical fallacy? Huh? A question is not a claim.

I tried to find a link that might be acceptable: Fallacies


please, show me what type of logical fallacy the question is subject to and how?

 

[Toome]

To break it down into much simpler terms: if a white-collar criminal embezzled a million dollars and it affected the life savings of a thousand people, those thousand people are still alive. Life just became tougher for them, but it's a matter of finding a way to overcome the hardship.

A murderer takes away a life, and that life can never be replaced. It affects the victim's immediate family, friends, coworkers and others (e.g. witnesses, bystanders, etc.). Add to it if it was a parent and how that affects the child or a child and how that affects the parent and siblings.

 

[Gem]

I understand the "point" you are making, but....

I would rather be ripped off than murdered.

I would rather have my loved ones ripped off than murdered.

I'm guessing most people would rather have 100000 people ripped off than have just 1 of their loved ones murdered.

Does "white collar crime" effect more people? Sure. But I'm not quite sure I understand why we have to quantify the two as a "Crime A is worse than Crime B" kind of way.

Both are terrible. Both can be prosecuted appropriately...

So whats the big deal?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Think about it. Who harms society most?

Progressives

 

[nraforlife]

HARD TO DO MORE HARM TO A PERSON THAN TAKING THEIR LIFE.

However, I would be perfectly willing to import caners from Singapore to publically punish dishonest corporate CEO's and indentity thieves among others. 100 hard laid strokes (plus restitution) would be about right for anyone involved in a fraudulent mortgage app for example.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

HARD TO DO MORE HARM TO A PERSON THAN TAKING THEIR LIFE.

However, I would be perfectly willing to import caners from Singapore to publically punish dishonest corporate CEO's and indentity thieves among others. 100 hard laid strokes (plus restitution) would be about right for anyone involved in a fraudulent mortgage app for example.

all those gung hoes who played the game of signing people up for bills they could not pay?


real estate people are like human resources douches, the death penalty is too kind for them

 

[Seer Travis]

Reload this Page Do certain white collar criminals do more harm to society than the average murderer does?

Think about it. Who harms society most?

There is no doubt. Murderers harm society many times more than white collar crime.

Societally demonized forms of murders threaten to reveal Forbidden Truth, which is the primary issue for societal leaders. They dont care about the loss of one ordinary citizen-slave. The harm to society caused by a crime act is primarily proportionate to the level of which it reveals Forbidden Truth.

Obviously murders are far greater crimes than fraud.

Your personal delusion that white collar crime is more harmful on society is based on your personal jealousy of rich and wealthy citizen-slaves, and a hate of what you see as success.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

To break it down into much simpler terms: if a white-collar criminal embezzled a million dollars and it affected the life savings of a thousand people, those thousand people are still alive. Life just became tougher for them, but it's a matter of finding a way to overcome the hardship.

A murderer takes away a life, and that life can never be replaced. It affects the victim's immediate family, friends, coworkers and others (e.g. witnesses, bystanders, etc.). Add to it if it was a parent and how that affects the child or a child and how that affects the parent and siblings.

It's about being alive after having harm done to one? How about a suicide afterwards...traced to financial ruin? I think people affected by a murder have the same option and obligation of finding a way to overcome. Harsh, but reality. Tragedy, trauma and some bad shit has touched my life. I have found ways to overcome. I have empathy for others, but limited patience and tolerance for the weak of mind and spirit.

You have regulated some harm to a minor status. I wonder if you have taken a hard look at how that minor harm, truly affects people. Broken marriages, mortgages not paid, rent not paid, medical bills not paid, bankruptcy and financial ruin, affecting multiple generations of a family and neighborhood...

It is easy for us outside to belittle harm others are exposed to. That is an experience I know. I've been on both sides.

 

[manu1959]

congress has done more damage than any white collar criminal.....

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I understand the "point" you are making, but....

I would rather be ripped off than murdered.

I would rather have my loved ones ripped off than murdered.

I'm guessing most people would rather have 100000 people ripped off than have just 1 of their loved ones murdered.

Does "white collar crime" effect more people? Sure. But I'm not quite sure I understand why we have to quantify the two as a "Crime A is worse than Crime B" kind of way.

Both are terrible. Both can be prosecuted appropriately...

So whats the big deal?

I understand your view from a personal standpoint, but I specifically asked the question in a way that addressed societal harm, not individual harm.

What's the big deal? I was wondering if harsh sentencing and punishment is truly a crime prevention tactic capable of managing violent and physical criminal activity, wouldn't it make sense to keep economic catastrophe from ruining our nation and maybe the world, by adopting harsh, draconian tactics? Why do we have such a lax attitude towards how we criminalize white collar crimes? In China, people like corrupt police Chiefs get the death penalty.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

congress has done more damage than any white collar criminal.....

go fuck yourself you idiot.

nobody pays attention to rantings and ravings about congress when they are talking about other things.

get a life

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

HARD TO DO MORE HARM TO A PERSON THAN TAKING THEIR LIFE.

However, I would be perfectly willing to import caners from Singapore to publically punish dishonest corporate CEO's and indentity thieves among others. 100 hard laid strokes (plus restitution) would be about right for anyone involved in a fraudulent mortgage app for example.

You obviously misread the question and the OP thread headline: Do certain white collar criminals do more harm to society than the average murderer?

There are people who die or get murdered who have added little to nothing to society around them. Their loss affects very little in society. Certain white collar crimes bankrupt whole families and cause unmitigated harm and consequences for generations.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Reload this Page Do certain white collar criminals do more harm to society than the average murderer does?

Think about it. Who harms society most?

1) There is no doubt. Murderers harm society many times more than white collar crime.
...

2) Obviously murders are far greater crimes than fraud.

3) Your personal delusion that white collar crime is more harmful on society is based on your personal jealousy of rich and wealthy citizen-slaves, and a hate of what you see as success.

1) I've know people who have committed murder and I know white collar criminals and I know victims of all. I beg to differ with your knee jerk response.

2) Nothing obvious about it.

3) Your delusions beat mine put together with those of everyone else here, by a landsliding...mile.