Diversity makes the US stronger ????????

[Nuc]

Enough of the bizarre personal preference analogies. United we stand-Divided we fall. Remember that one? Who cares what we all had for dinner if a group of fanatics can destroy our country because its' citizens simply don't care about the US as a nation or bother to identify themselves as an American.

This differs from the point you were making earlier, which was that diversity is a bad thing. The citizens of this country are diverse. Who are you to define who identifies themselves as American or not. Do you think only white people define themselves as American. Your argument doesn't hold water. No place in the world more diverse than NYC and people came together AS AMERICANS to recover from that.

 

[kurtsprincess]

Hey Dillo,

You're being relocated by your job. You have two choices:

One town has MacDonalds, Burger King, and Hardee's.

The other town has those three, plus a pizza place, a Chinese restaurant, a sushi bar, a soul food place, a Greek restaurant, a French bistro, an Argentine steakhouse, a curry joint, a Thai restaurant, and a place that serves oysters from all over the world.

Which town do you want to move to?

What's the crime rate in the two cities?

 

[Abbey Normal]

What's the crime rate in the two cities?

Perfect!

 

[Isaac Brock]

I've always found it interesting, when people shoot down multiculturalism as the source of society's downfall. Even, further odd when one speaks of promoting "American Culture" as if it was a unique, homogenous entity.

American culture is nothing but the product of multiculturalism itself. I don't think there are many Americans that would say they share the same culture as the Brits. Nor, do I believe American is just a direct evolution of British culture in itself. The addition of other cultures is part what makes America, America. No different, than Canada or Australia, which I again don't think Americans would agree we share the same culture.

While it is possible to shut out immigration, and debate about what should consist American culture, believing the citizens of US or any single country for that matter can agree on what its culture should be, is rare, if not, non-existant, even much more for a young country from a diverse background.

 

[Nuc]

I define America as a place where one can be born in poverty and rise to greatness, ie. Oprah Winfrey-yuk, but an example nevertheless. Heck one can be born somewhere else, come here and succeed, ie. Arnold. One can be born of parents of the 'greatest generation' who did well, but never finished college and get a Phd. One can be born with every advantage and still be a FU, ie. Teddy K.

We can reverse rivers-Chicago.
We can overcome attacks by terrorists. Anniversary today.
We can build buildings the world envies. John Hancock. Sear's. WTC. Empire State Building. Louis Sullivan. Mies van der Roe.
We have museums that are not 'exclusive', but rather 'inclusive' probably a given with our 'diversity': NY Met, Chicago Science and Industry, Field Museum, Smithsonians, Art Institute of Chicago...
We have Universities that accept from all over the world, including the most impoverished.
Our school systems-for better or worse-are based on the idea that all children, not just those of certain classes or basic intelligence-are worth educating.

Our culture is strong and distinct, only fools don't recognize it or think it inferior to those based on feudalism or worse.

Nice post Kathianne. Just seems like some of the people here would go to those museums you mention and think that the contents are disgusting because they reflect diversity.

Or would like to tear down your universities because more than one point of view may be taught.

 

[kurtsprincess]

This differs from the point you were making earlier, which was that diversity is a bad thing. The citizens of this country are diverse. Who are you to define who identifies themselves as American or not. Do you think only white people define themselves as American. Your argument doesn't hold water. No place in the world more diverse than NYC and people came together AS AMERICANS to recover from that.

Diversity becomes a bad thing when it stands in the way of being united.

America used to think of itself as a melting pot ..... incorporating all the cultural aspects of our immigrants and letting what bubbled to the top to be defined as American.

Today, there is too much support for maintaining one's own culture and this nation is rapidly becoming a nation of smaller nationalities which don't understand or support each other. It seems as if each nationality brings all the cultural aspects that separated them from their neighbors in the first place and drove them to come to America to become Americans. And they are just recreating the same conditions of misunderstanding and hostility here instead of assimilating and helping to maintain that which helped America to become such a great and powerful nation.

If you want to be Canadian, stay in Canada; if you want to be Mexican, stay in Mexico; if you want to be an African, then stay in Africa; and so on and so on. Why not stay in the country that defines who you are, rather than immigrating to another country and trying to be different?


Edited to add: And, if one wants to experience cultural diversity.....then save up and travel. It's that old .... delayed gratification thing (rather than being satisfied to live in a city that is soooooooooo culturally diverse that one can have instant gratification).

 

[dilloduck]

This differs from the point you were making earlier, which was that diversity is a bad thing. The citizens of this country are diverse. Who are you to define who identifies themselves as American or not. Do you think only white people define themselves as American. Your argument doesn't hold water. No place in the world more diverse than NYC and people came together AS AMERICANS to recover from that.

No--I didn't. I originally in this thread simply asked for an example of how diversity made us stronger using Katrina as an example. I NEVER said diversity was bad. I just question as to whether it makes us STONGER or not.
If diversity were applied to a common cause or goal it COULD be an advantage but unfortunately "diverse" groups tend to struggle for what may be good for their individual group but not necessarily good for America as whole.
No--I don't think that only white people define themselves as Americans. Many white immigrants feel more loyalty to the country that they immigrated from than America.
In New York, people came together as a city and a country, united briefly with the goal of defending America and rebuilding a city. This unity was destroyed by the politicalization of the country and playing the blame game.

Who am I to make obsevations and report what I've personally heard and experienced? A free American--. Would you support an effort to suppress me?

 

[Annie]

Nice post Kathianne. Just seems like some of the people here would go to those museums you mention and think that the contents are disgusting because they reflect diversity.

Or would like to tear down your universities because more than one point of view may be taught.

Thanks. Funny thing, most do not seem to get the idea that their ancestors were trying to escape the very 'ideas' they are espousing today. Not saying the issues are exactly the same, but the repercussions of those ideas are.

If one was from England and found the Church of England and primogenture stifling, they came here. Now their descendants are arguing that they are 'native' and the riff raff should be barred from coming.

My beef would be that the 'riff raff' which may well be the 'chosen' in less than a generation, should be coming here legally. I don't care about their religion or color or language, though it should be a given that we do not allow those who think our culture right, (which is REAL), should not be coming, nor should those without the desire to blend into our culture. That's my take.

 

[kurtsprincess]

Nice post Kathianne. Just seems like some of the people here would go to those museums you mention and think that the contents are disgusting because they reflect diversity.

Or would like to tear down your universities because more than one point of view may be taught.

Recognizing diversity or multi-culturism in museums is appropriate.

Supporting communities of differing cultures seems to lead to separation of society rather than creating support for common goals.

Teaching more than one view point at our universities is appropriate, however, I don't support vilifying one point of view over another one, which will happen when one is taught to have allegiance to one's culture or native country over American ideals and loyalty.

 

[Nuc]

Diversity becomes a bad thing when it stands in the way of being united.

America used to think of itself as a melting pot ..... incorporating all the cultural aspects of our immigrants and letting what bubbled to the top to be defined as American.

Today, there is too much support for maintaining one's own culture and this nation is rapidly becoming a nation of smaller nationalities which don't understand or support each other. It seems as if each nationality brings all the cultural aspects that separated them from their neighbors in the first place and drove them to come to America to become Americans. And they are just recreating the same conditions of misunderstanding and hostility here instead of assimilating and helping to maintain that which helped America to become such a great and powerful nation.

If you want to be Canadian, stay in Canada; if you want to be Mexican, stay in Mexico; if you want to be an African, then stay in Africa; and so on and so on. Why not stay in the country that defines who you are, rather than immigrating to another country and trying to be different?


Edited to add: And, if one wants to experience cultural diversity.....then save up and travel. It's that old .... delayed gratification thing (rather than being satisfied to live in a city that is soooooooooo culturally diverse that one can have instant gratification).

Except for your addendum, which was unnecessary, I agree with everything you say here. (I lived in NYC for 10 years and also travel constantly).

I must say that I know and am friends with hundreds of immigrants. Hell I'm married to one. The people I know do embrace American culture. These are real people, not some anecdotal stuff I read about. These people of course still cook their food sometimes, but also enjoy a hamburger, or Thanksgiving dinner. Dress in American clothes most of the time, but once in a while wear a sari or dahshiki. It's OK to hold onto some of the old country and offer it to the new country. Thank God for pizza!

Those who have no intention of assimilating (Muslim extremists, a small percentage of Hispanics) don't belong here and shouldn't come in the first place.

Do we agree?

 

[Mr. P]

Multiculturalism is a growing force in America’s universities and public life. In brief, multiculturalism is the view that all cultures, from that of a spirits-worshiping tribe to that of an advanced industrial civilization, are equal in value.

Since cultures are obviously not equal in value—not if man’s life is your standard of value—this egalitarian doctrine can have only one purpose: to raze the mountaintops. Multiculturalism seeks to obliterate the value of a free, industrialized civilization (which today exists in the West and elsewhere), by declaring that such a civilization is no better than primitive tribalism. More deeply, it seeks to incapacitate a mind’s ability to distinguish good from evil, to distinguish that which is life promoting from that which is life negating.



We are opposed to this destructive doctrine. We hold that moral judgment is essential to life. The ideas and values that animate a particular culture can and should be judged objectively. A culture that values freedom, progress, reason and science, for instance, is good; one that values oppression, stagnation, mysticism, and ignorance is not.

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=media_topic_multiculturalism

Sometimes "My way or the highway" fits..
If you can't unite for the common good, yer screwed.

EDIT: SPELLING again..LOL

 

[archangel]

Except for your addendum, which was unnecessary, I agree with everything you say here. (I lived in NYC for 10 years and also travel constantly).

I must say that I know and am friends with hundreds of immigrants. Hell I'm married to one. The people I know do embrace American culture. These are real people, not some anecdotal stuff I read about. These people of course still cook their food sometimes, but also enjoy a hamburger, or Thanksgiving dinner. Dress in American clothes most of the time, but once in a while wear a sari or dahshiki. It's OK to hold onto some of the old country and offer it to the new country. Thank God for pizza!

Those who have no intention of assimilating (Muslim extremists, a small percentage of Hispanics) don't belong here and shouldn't come in the first place.

Do we agree?

Well ya,however Pizza as we know it is American...my G/pa was from Sicily..pizza was left overs such as pasta and red sauce or cabbage and a meat a balls in red sauce spread over garlic bread...not a bada but I a lika the American version!

 

[Nuc]

Well ya,however Pizza as we know it is American...my G/pa was from Sicily..pizza was left overs such as pasta and red sauce or cabbage and a meat a balls in red sauce spread over garlic bread...not a bada but I a lika the American version!

I like the Neapolitan version. Fresh and light! But any kind of pizza is great.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Saw this on a button once:

"Pizza is like sex. Even when it's bad, it's still pretty good."

 

[archangel]

I like the Neapolitan version. Fresh and light! But any kind of pizza is great.

I really a lika the Hawaiian version mixed with Canadian...Pinapple and canadian bacon...or the tex/mex or Calif spicey bbq chicken...sorry if I got off topic a bit...humm...food and beer really get me a going in here!

 

[kurtsprincess]

Those who have no intention of assimilating (Muslim extremists, a small percentage of Hispanics) don't belong here and shouldn't come in the first place.

Do we agree?

Yes.

 

[archangel]

Saw this on a button once:

"Pizza is like sex. Even when it's bad, it's still pretty good."

 

[dilloduck]

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=media_topic_multiculturalism

Sometimes "My way or the highway" fits..
If you can't unit for the common good, yer screwed.

Good link---

Listen---there is NO doubt that peoples from all over the world have borrowed ideas from each other and benefitted. I would never propose anything as silly as cleansing America from anything that didn't originate here or deporting a race that wasn't native to this land. I AM NOT proclaiming diverse cultures or races BAD. GOT IT?

HOWEVER--when citizens choose to prioritize themselves racially or culturally and being an American becomes second, we are most assuredly weakened AS A COUNTRY. Sure there are immigrants who assimilalte yet have brought the uniqueness of thier homeland with them to share but those are NOT the people of whom I am speaking.
I am talking of the ones who adamantly refuse to assimilate, demand that THEIR customs, culture, language be crammed on those who have ALREADY made sacrifices and adaptations to live here.
Are we going to have every fricken sign in America printed in 50 languages so it reflects our diversity?

I live among illegal immigrants from Mexico and I can guarantee you they do NOT consider themsleves as Americans. They watch Mexican TV, follow Mexican politics, refuse to speak english even if they know it, and could care less about Americas' local or national concerns. They are here ONLY to take from our economy, live off of our welfare, and use OUR resources for thier personal benefit. Do they want to participate in the celebration of America?
Hell no. To they want to learn to live like Americans? Hell no.

Now Please--Tell me how these people are strengthening America?

Would you go to China and expect the Chinese to CHANGE to make life easier for you and support you in your poverty? Good luck.

 

[Annie]

Good link---

Listen---there is NO doubt that peoples from all over the world have borrowed ideas from each other and benefitted. I would never propose anything as silly as cleansing America from anything that didn't originate here or deporting a race that wasn't native to this land. I AM NOT proclaiming diverse cultures or races BAD. GOT IT?

HOWEVER--when citizens choose to prioritize themselves racially or culturally and being an American becomes second, we are most assuredly weakened AS A COUNTRY. Sure there are immigrants who assimilalte yet have brought the uniqueness of thier homeland with them to share but those are NOT the people of whom I am speaking.
I am talking of the ones who adamantly refuse to assimilate, demand that THEIR customs, culture, language be crammed on those who have ALREADY made sacrifices and adaptations to live here.
Are we going to have every fricken sign in America printed in 50 languages so it reflects our diversity?

I live among illegal immigrants from Mexico and I can guarantee you they do NOT consider themsleves as Americans. They watch Mexican TV, follow Mexican politics, refuse to speak english even if they know it, and could care less about Americas' local or national concerns. They are here ONLY to take from our economy, live off of our welfare, and use OUR resources for thier personal benefit. Do they want to participate in the celebration of America?
Hell no. To they want to learn to live like Americans? Hell no.

Now Please--Tell me how these people are strengthening America?

Would you go to China and expect the Chinese to CHANGE to make life easier for you and support you in your poverty? Good luck.

I want to be sure I'm hearing you right. Only the Mexicans are who you have a gripe with?

I haven't one problem with Mexicans that come here legally. Hell, even most of the ones I know here illegally are great folk, but I think they should be sent back. What about the Islamic extremists that are here legally? Scary too might be those that have come in from Mexico or Canada. What about the Chinese that are here illegally?

Bottom line, MOST that come here legally keep our country fresh and forward looking. I would like more of the melting pot and less of the salad approach, but that is me!

 

[dilloduck]

I want to be sure I'm hearing you right. Only the Mexicans are who you have a gripe with?

I haven't one problem with Mexicans that come here legally. Hell, even most of the ones I know here illegally are great folk, but I think they should be sent back. What about the Islamic extremists that are here legally? Scary too might be those that have come in from Mexico or Canada. What about the Chinese that are here illegally?

Bottom line, MOST that come here legally keep our country fresh and forward looking. I would like more of the melting pot and less of the salad approach, but that is me!

No--I only used Mexicans as an example because I deal with them on a daily basis. Austin is a "sanctuary" city and Mexico is a mere half a days drive from here. I would imagine that the situation is different here than it is in your neck of the woods. OTM illegals are being captured at an ever increasing rate which only mean to me that many more are trying and many more are also succeeding. OF course it's scary, which is why I don't see thier entry as a big chance for America to get stronger just because they are diverse. Some of these "diverse" people simply want to kill us.
Our goverment knows full well that there are active terrorists cells ALREADY operating in America and constantly predict that another large attack is INEVITABLE.
By confusing the "delights of diversity" we are ignoring the "threats of diversity". We may well suffer a catostrophic terrorist attack on a day that we are having a "let's all be friends and love each other no matter what" party.
Katrina PROVED we are in no way prepared for disaster even though we saw it coming. 9/11 only woke America up to see reality for a few days. We didn't like what we saw and hit the snooze button.