Did Obama Vote for the Debt He "Inherited"

[Meister]

How does debt cause inflation?

When we have to borrow dollars from the treasury, that we don't have. The treasury prints new dollars....but nothing to back them except for the dollars already out there. This dilutes the worth of all the dollars. which causes inflation.
Sellers raise the price to recoup the devalued dollar to make the same profit as before.
Employers to some extent raise wages to offset the devalued dollar. But not always

We don't borrow from the Treasury. The Treasury borrows money on behalf of the Govt (the Treasury is part of the Govt). The money is borrowed from private investors, businesses, and foreign governments.

New money is created by the Fed, not the Treasury. The Treasury does the actual printing of currency and coin, but ships it to the Fed for distribution into the money supply.

Inflation is only created when the supply of new money exceed population and real GDP growth. That is caused by an increase in the money supply, not Govt debt.

There are many causes for inflation, depending on a number of factors. For example, inflation can happen when governments print an excess of money to deal with a crisis. As a result, prices end up rising at an extremely high speed to keep up with the currency surplus. This is called the demand-pull, in which prices are forced upwards because of a high demand <a id="inflation" href="http://www.wisegeek.com/what-causes-inflation.htm#il">more</a>

What Causes Inflation?
I really get tired of having to do the work in this Iriemon. Sometimes you think you know more than you actually do

 

[Xenophon]

Sometimes you think you know more than you actually do

Sometimes?

Haven't you noticed, he's an expert on everything.

I have never seen someone post so much and say so little.

 

[Yurt]

My Way News - FACT CHECK: Obama disowns deficit he helped shape

FACT CHECK: Obama disowns deficit he helped shape

By CALVIN WOODWARD

(AP) President Barack Obama speaks during a town hall meeting Wednesday, April 29, 2009, at Fox Senior...
WASHINGTON (AP) - "That wasn't me," President Barack Obama said on his 100th day in office, disclaiming responsibility for the huge budget deficit waiting for him on Day One.

It actually was him - and the other Democrats controlling Congress the previous two years - who shaped a budget so out of balance.

OBAMA: "Number one, we inherited a $1.3 trillion deficit.... That wasn't me. Number two, there is almost uniform consensus among economists that in the middle of the biggest crisis, financial crisis, since the Great Depression, we had to take extraordinary steps. So you've got a lot of Republican economists who agree that we had to do a stimulus package and we had to do something about the banks. Those are one-time charges, and they're big, and they'll make our deficits go up over the next two years." - in Missouri.

THE FACTS:

Congress controls the purse strings, not the president, and it was under Democratic control for Obama's last two years as Illinois senator. Obama supported the emergency bailout package in President George W. Bush's final months - a package Democratic leaders wanted to make bigger

OK. Faced with a financial crisis of a type not seen since the great depression, Senator Obama voted for the 2008 stimulus bill along with 74 other Senators, including McCain, and 263 Representatives and one president to pass the stimulus bill to save the nation from another great depression.

How does that Obama any more responsible for the debt than McCain, Bush, or any of the other 74 senators and 263 represenatitives that supported this bill?

And how does that make Obama responsible or having voted for the rought $10 trillion in debt that existsed before that package was voted on?

stop it...seriously, how many times do i have to tell this is NOT about obama being more responsible, it is about his claim that he is not responsible at all and that is a flat out lie. reread the title to this thread, my previous comments telling you that the repubs are as guilty and then reread the title of the article i gave you, they do not pass the buck and blame obama any more, it is solely about obama lying that its not my fault...it is, he voted to approve bush's budget more than once....and obama never denied that he voted to approve bush's budgets....if anything, it wasn't about the amount spent it was probably some other pissant issue.

 

[DiveCon]

OK, fair enough, that is a bit different than saying "Obama has accumulated more debt in 100 days than Bush did during his whole first term or second term as President"

The deficit numbers you listed don't actually reflect the accumulated debt, because those deficits figures include extra SS tax receipts (which aren't supposed to be used as general tax revenues) and don't include things like the Iraq war.

To see that actual accumulate debt, we can go to the source that keeps that info: The US Treasury Department.

Government - Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

If you plug in the numbers from when Bush took office (Jan 20 2001) and left (Jan 20 2009) you get this:

01/19/2001 5,727,776,738,304.64
01/21/2005 7,614,468,360,651.30
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08

The debt increased $1,886 billion is first term; $3,013 billion his second term, for
an increase of $4,899 billion over the 8 years, or roughly $5 trillion.

Since 1/20/09, when Obama became president, as of 4/28/09, the debt has increased to:

11,194,339,423,305.97

for an increase of about $567 billion.

That is a lot, no doubt, but it is a long way from saying that Obama has accumulated more debt in 100 days than Bush did during his whole first term or second term as President

Fair enough, I was including money Obama has approved for future spending. If we project his spending over 8 years, the grand total is about 10 trillion.

Given the economic situation Obama has inhereted, it wouldn't be too surprising that the projected accumulation of debt over Obama's 8 years would be more than Bush's during his whole first term or second term as President. Bush inherited a surplus.

It would be nice if Obama didn't, but I'm not very optimistic.

and there it is


"he inherited it"
he also voted for some of it

 

[Iriemon]

When we have to borrow dollars from the treasury, that we don't have. The treasury prints new dollars....but nothing to back them except for the dollars already out there. This dilutes the worth of all the dollars. which causes inflation.
Sellers raise the price to recoup the devalued dollar to make the same profit as before.
Employers to some extent raise wages to offset the devalued dollar. But not always

We don't borrow from the Treasury. The Treasury borrows money on behalf of the Govt (the Treasury is part of the Govt). The money is borrowed from private investors, businesses, and foreign governments.

New money is created by the Fed, not the Treasury. The Treasury does the actual printing of currency and coin, but ships it to the Fed for distribution into the money supply.

Inflation is only created when the supply of new money exceed population and real GDP growth. That is caused by an increase in the money supply, not Govt debt.

There are many causes for inflation, depending on a number of factors. For example, inflation can happen when governments print an excess of money to deal with a crisis. As a result, prices end up rising at an extremely high speed to keep up with the currency surplus. This is called the demand-pull, in which prices are forced upwards because of a high demand <a id="inflation" href="http://www.wisegeek.com/what-causes-inflation.htm#il">more</a>

What Causes Inflation?
I really get tired of having to do the work in this Iriemon. Sometimes you think you know more than you actually do

That "wisegeek" article is a general overview as opposed to specifically describing the US system. But it basically reinforces what I said. Inflation is caused by an increase in the money supply ("printing money"), not Govt debt.

In the US, the money supply is controlled by the Fed, the central bank of the US. Not the US Govt. The Treasury prints money at the mint but does not put money into the money supply. That is the Fed. This is pretty basic stuff.

Current functions of the Federal Reserve System include: To manage the nation's money supply through monetary policy to achieve the sometimes-conflicting goals of
maximum employment, stable prices, including prevention of either inflation or deflation,
moderate long-term interest rates

Federal Reserve System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Currency notes and coins are all produced by the Treasury Department. After production, the Treasury ships the coins and currency notes directly to Federal Reserve banks and branches. The Federal Reserve then releases them as required by the commercial banking system.

U.S. Treasury - Fact Sheet on the Distribution of Currency&Coins

Part of the way the Fed can expand the money supply is by buying Govt debt through what are called open market operations, and if it does that excessively an over exapansion of the money supply can then lead to inflation.

 

[jreeves]

OK, fair enough, that is a bit different than saying "Obama has accumulated more debt in 100 days than Bush did during his whole first term or second term as President"

The deficit numbers you listed don't actually reflect the accumulated debt, because those deficits figures include extra SS tax receipts (which aren't supposed to be used as general tax revenues) and don't include things like the Iraq war.

To see that actual accumulate debt, we can go to the source that keeps that info: The US Treasury Department.

Government - Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

If you plug in the numbers from when Bush took office (Jan 20 2001) and left (Jan 20 2009) you get this:

01/19/2001 5,727,776,738,304.64
01/21/2005 7,614,468,360,651.30
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08

The debt increased $1,886 billion is first term; $3,013 billion his second term, for
an increase of $4,899 billion over the 8 years, or roughly $5 trillion.

Since 1/20/09, when Obama became president, as of 4/28/09, the debt has increased to:

11,194,339,423,305.97

for an increase of about $567 billion.

That is a lot, no doubt, but it is a long way from saying that Obama has accumulated more debt in 100 days than Bush did during his whole first term or second term as President

Fair enough, I was including money Obama has approved for future spending. If we project his spending over 8 years, the grand total is about 10 trillion.

Given the economic situation Obama has inhereted, it wouldn't be too surprising that the projected accumulation of debt over Obama's 8 years would be more than Bush's during his whole first term or second term as President. Bush inherited a surplus.

It would be nice if Obama didn't, but I'm not very optimistic.

So the only way to get out of an economic recession is by borrowing 10 trillion dollars and devaluing our currency?

 

[Meister]

We don't borrow from the Treasury. The Treasury borrows money on behalf of the Govt (the Treasury is part of the Govt). The money is borrowed from private investors, businesses, and foreign governments.

New money is created by the Fed, not the Treasury. The Treasury does the actual printing of currency and coin, but ships it to the Fed for distribution into the money supply.

Inflation is only created when the supply of new money exceed population and real GDP growth. That is caused by an increase in the money supply, not Govt debt.

There are many causes for inflation, depending on a number of factors. For example, inflation can happen when governments print an excess of money to deal with a crisis. As a result, prices end up rising at an extremely high speed to keep up with the currency surplus. This is called the demand-pull, in which prices are forced upwards because of a high demand <a id="inflation" href="http://www.wisegeek.com/what-causes-inflation.htm#il">more</a>

What Causes Inflation?
I really get tired of having to do the work in this Iriemon. Sometimes you think you know more than you actually do

That "wisegeek" article is a general overview as opposed to specifically describing the US system. But it basically reinforces what I said. Inflation is caused by an increase in the money supply ("printing money"), not Govt debt.

In the US, the money supply is controlled by the Fed, the central bank of the US. Not the US Govt. The Treasury prints money at the mint but does not put money into the money supply. That is the Fed. This is pretty basic stuff.

Current functions of the Federal Reserve System include: To manage the nation's money supply through monetary policy to achieve the sometimes-conflicting goals of
maximum employment, stable prices, including prevention of either inflation or deflation,
moderate long-term interest rates

Federal Reserve System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Currency notes and coins are all produced by the Treasury Department. After production, the Treasury ships the coins and currency notes directly to Federal Reserve banks and branches. The Federal Reserve then releases them as required by the commercial banking system.

U.S. Treasury - Fact Sheet on the Distribution of Currency&Coins

Part of the way the Fed can expand the money supply is by buying Govt debt through what are called open market operations, and if it does that excessively an over exapansion of the money supply can then lead to inflation.

Bottom line is that money is being printed that we don't have. This will cause inflation. We're going to start seeing this between 12 and 18 months out from now...coming from some economists. I hope your job has a pay scale to cover the inflation. Mine used to, but now that I'm retired, it's cut that part down by a few percentage points.

 

[Iriemon]

My Way News - FACT CHECK: Obama disowns deficit he helped shape

FACT CHECK: Obama disowns deficit he helped shape

By CALVIN WOODWARD

(AP) President Barack Obama speaks during a town hall meeting Wednesday, April 29, 2009, at Fox Senior...
WASHINGTON (AP) - "That wasn't me," President Barack Obama said on his 100th day in office, disclaiming responsibility for the huge budget deficit waiting for him on Day One.

It actually was him - and the other Democrats controlling Congress the previous two years - who shaped a budget so out of balance.

OBAMA: "Number one, we inherited a $1.3 trillion deficit.... That wasn't me. Number two, there is almost uniform consensus among economists that in the middle of the biggest crisis, financial crisis, since the Great Depression, we had to take extraordinary steps. So you've got a lot of Republican economists who agree that we had to do a stimulus package and we had to do something about the banks. Those are one-time charges, and they're big, and they'll make our deficits go up over the next two years." - in Missouri.

THE FACTS:

Congress controls the purse strings, not the president, and it was under Democratic control for Obama's last two years as Illinois senator. Obama supported the emergency bailout package in President George W. Bush's final months - a package Democratic leaders wanted to make bigger

OK. Faced with a financial crisis of a type not seen since the great depression, Senator Obama voted for the 2008 stimulus bill along with 74 other Senators, including McCain, and 263 Representatives and one president to pass the stimulus bill to save the nation from another great depression.

How does that Obama any more responsible for the debt than McCain, Bush, or any of the other 74 senators and 263 represenatitives that supported this bill?

And how does that make Obama responsible or having voted for the rought $10 trillion in debt that existsed before that package was voted on?

stop it...seriously, how many times do i have to tell this is NOT about obama being more responsible, it is about his claim that he is not responsible at all and that is a flat out lie. reread the title to this thread, my previous comments telling you that the repubs are as guilty and then reread the title of the article i gave you, they do not pass the buck and blame obama any more, it is solely about obama lying that its not my fault...it is, he voted to approve bush's budget more than once....and obama never denied that he voted to approve bush's budgets....if anything, it wasn't about the amount spent it was probably some other pissant issue.

Obama didn't vote for Bush's budget in 2006.

The title of this thread is "Did Obama Vote for the Debt He "Inherited"?

He inhereted $10.7 trillion. At most he voted for components of a small part of that total, and much of it to deal with a financial crisis. To suggest that therefore that Obama is somehow responsible for inhereting a Govt $10.7 trillion in debt is inane.

 

[jreeves]

OK. Faced with a financial crisis of a type not seen since the great depression, Senator Obama voted for the 2008 stimulus bill along with 74 other Senators, including McCain, and 263 Representatives and one president to pass the stimulus bill to save the nation from another great depression.

How does that Obama any more responsible for the debt than McCain, Bush, or any of the other 74 senators and 263 represenatitives that supported this bill?

And how does that make Obama responsible or having voted for the rought $10 trillion in debt that existsed before that package was voted on?

stop it...seriously, how many times do i have to tell this is NOT about obama being more responsible, it is about his claim that he is not responsible at all and that is a flat out lie. reread the title to this thread, my previous comments telling you that the repubs are as guilty and then reread the title of the article i gave you, they do not pass the buck and blame obama any more, it is solely about obama lying that its not my fault...it is, he voted to approve bush's budget more than once....and obama never denied that he voted to approve bush's budgets....if anything, it wasn't about the amount spent it was probably some other pissant issue.

Obama didn't vote for Bush's budget in 2006.

The title of this thread is "Did Obama Vote for the Debt He "Inherited"?

He inhereted $10.7 trillion. At most he voted for components of a small part of that total, and much of it to deal with a financial crisis. To suggest that therefore that Obama is somehow responsible for inhereting a Govt $10.7 trillion in debt is inane.

He is very much responsible for the 2 trillions worth of deficit next year.

 

[Iriemon]

There are many causes for inflation, depending on a number of factors. For example, inflation can happen when governments print an excess of money to deal with a crisis. As a result, prices end up rising at an extremely high speed to keep up with the currency surplus. This is called the demand-pull, in which prices are forced upwards because of a high demand <a id="inflation" href="http://www.wisegeek.com/what-causes-inflation.htm#il">more</a>

What Causes Inflation?
I really get tired of having to do the work in this Iriemon. Sometimes you think you know more than you actually do

That "wisegeek" article is a general overview as opposed to specifically describing the US system. But it basically reinforces what I said. Inflation is caused by an increase in the money supply ("printing money"), not Govt debt.

In the US, the money supply is controlled by the Fed, the central bank of the US. Not the US Govt. The Treasury prints money at the mint but does not put money into the money supply. That is the Fed. This is pretty basic stuff.

Current functions of the Federal Reserve System include: To manage the nation's money supply through monetary policy to achieve the sometimes-conflicting goals of
maximum employment, stable prices, including prevention of either inflation or deflation,
moderate long-term interest rates

Federal Reserve System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Currency notes and coins are all produced by the Treasury Department. After production, the Treasury ships the coins and currency notes directly to Federal Reserve banks and branches. The Federal Reserve then releases them as required by the commercial banking system.

U.S. Treasury - Fact Sheet on the Distribution of Currency&Coins

Part of the way the Fed can expand the money supply is by buying Govt debt through what are called open market operations, and if it does that excessively an over exapansion of the money supply can then lead to inflation.

Bottom line is that money is being printed that we don't have. This will cause inflation. We're going to start seeing this between 12 and 18 months out from now...coming from some economists. I hope your job has a pay scale to cover the inflation. Mine used to, but now that I'm retired, it's cut that part down by a few percentage points.

That's alwasy speculative to guess what will happen. I certainly agree that it could. The money supply is also affected by the amount of lending activity thru something called the multiplier, and when banks don't lend, it effectively decreases the money supply. The Fed is trying to offset that by lowering interest rates banks can borrow money and injecting dollars by purchasing Govt securities (and now other securities as well). When the banks start lending again then you will have the danger of too much money in the system, at which time we can expect the Fed to rein the money supply back in.

The Govt is certainly spending money it doesn't have, and has been doing that for far too long. Its arguably justified in a financial crisis and recession, but I agree it cannot continue running massive deficits without ultimately running into ever greater interest costs and at some point crowding equity markets.

 

[Iriemon]

stop it...seriously, how many times do i have to tell this is NOT about obama being more responsible, it is about his claim that he is not responsible at all and that is a flat out lie. reread the title to this thread, my previous comments telling you that the repubs are as guilty and then reread the title of the article i gave you, they do not pass the buck and blame obama any more, it is solely about obama lying that its not my fault...it is, he voted to approve bush's budget more than once....and obama never denied that he voted to approve bush's budgets....if anything, it wasn't about the amount spent it was probably some other pissant issue.

Obama didn't vote for Bush's budget in 2006.

The title of this thread is "Did Obama Vote for the Debt He "Inherited"?

He inhereted $10.7 trillion. At most he voted for components of a small part of that total, and much of it to deal with a financial crisis. To suggest that therefore that Obama is somehow responsible for inhereting a Govt $10.7 trillion in debt is inane.

He is very much responsible for the 2 trillions worth of deficit next year.

Or whatever it may be. That I can agree with more.

 

[xsited1]

Didn't know where to post this. (I usually don't use this kind of language, but a lot of people here do. )

 

[Iriemon]

Didn't know where to post this. (I usually don't use this kind of language, but a lot of people here do. )

That was from the Tennessee campaign, wasn't it?

 

[xsited1]

Didn't know where to post this. (I usually don't use this kind of language, but a lot of people here do. )

...

That was from the Tennessee campaign, wasn't it?

Okay... You're making a 'funny', right?

 

[Iriemon]

Didn't know where to post this. (I usually don't use this kind of language, but a lot of people here do. )

...

That was from the Tennessee campaign, wasn't it?

Okay... You're making a 'funny', right?

Heh heh

 

[Xenophon]

Didn't know where to post this. (I usually don't use this kind of language, but a lot of people here do. )

None the pious and saintly posters of USMB would ever dare use such langauge.

 

[Yurt]

OK. Faced with a financial crisis of a type not seen since the great depression, Senator Obama voted for the 2008 stimulus bill along with 74 other Senators, including McCain, and 263 Representatives and one president to pass the stimulus bill to save the nation from another great depression.

How does that Obama any more responsible for the debt than McCain, Bush, or any of the other 74 senators and 263 represenatitives that supported this bill?

And how does that make Obama responsible or having voted for the rought $10 trillion in debt that existsed before that package was voted on?

stop it...seriously, how many times do i have to tell this is NOT about obama being more responsible, it is about his claim that he is not responsible at all and that is a flat out lie. reread the title to this thread, my previous comments telling you that the repubs are as guilty and then reread the title of the article i gave you, they do not pass the buck and blame obama any more, it is solely about obama lying that its not my fault...it is, he voted to approve bush's budget more than once....and obama never denied that he voted to approve bush's budgets....if anything, it wasn't about the amount spent it was probably some other pissant issue.

Obama didn't vote for Bush's budget in 2006.

The title of this thread is "Did Obama Vote for the Debt He "Inherited"?

He inhereted $10.7 trillion. At most he voted for components of a small part of that total, and much of it to deal with a financial crisis. To suggest that therefore that Obama is somehow responsible for inhereting a Govt $10.7 trillion in debt is inane.

holy crap...so a budget was passed ONLY for the year 2006? he approved the massive spending in 2008, so no, he flat out lied none of this is his fault....

good lord, how can you sit there with a straight face and defend that none of the deficit is his fault?

obama lied, read my link again

 

[xsited1]

That was from the Tennessee campaign, wasn't it?

Okay... You're making a 'funny', right?

Heh heh

You could have just as easily said Arkansas!

 

[Iriemon]

stop it...seriously, how many times do i have to tell this is NOT about obama being more responsible, it is about his claim that he is not responsible at all and that is a flat out lie. reread the title to this thread, my previous comments telling you that the repubs are as guilty and then reread the title of the article i gave you, they do not pass the buck and blame obama any more, it is solely about obama lying that its not my fault...it is, he voted to approve bush's budget more than once....and obama never denied that he voted to approve bush's budgets....if anything, it wasn't about the amount spent it was probably some other pissant issue.

Obama didn't vote for Bush's budget in 2006.

The title of this thread is "Did Obama Vote for the Debt He "Inherited"?

He inhereted $10.7 trillion. At most he voted for components of a small part of that total, and much of it to deal with a financial crisis. To suggest that therefore that Obama is somehow responsible for inhereting a Govt $10.7 trillion in debt is inane.

holy crap...so a budget was passed ONLY for the year 2006?
[/qutoe]

Why would you think that?

he approved the massive spending in 2008, so no, he flat out lied none of this is his fault....

Is it his fault the economy is tanking and needs a couple trillion in stimulus?

good lord, how can you sit there with a straight face and defend that none of the deficit is his fault?

obama lied, read my link again

The same reason I did't claim that it was Bush's fault that he gave out those rebate checks in 2001.

 

[xsited1]

Didn't know where to post this. (I usually don't use this kind of language, but a lot of people here do. )

None the pious and saintly posters of USMB would ever dare use such langauge.

Here's my response to one of the 'pious and saintly' posters of USMB:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/general-discussion/75190-uh-oh-our-poor-neighbors.html#post1185051