Did Obama Vote for the Debt He "Inherited"

[Yurt]

Obama didn't vote for Bush's budget in 2006.

The title of this thread is "Did Obama Vote for the Debt He "Inherited"?

He inhereted $10.7 trillion. At most he voted for components of a small part of that total, and much of it to deal with a financial crisis. To suggest that therefore that Obama is somehow responsible for inhereting a Govt $10.7 trillion in debt is inane.

holy crap...so a budget was passed ONLY for the year 2006?
[/qutoe]

Why would you think that?



Is it his fault the economy is tanking and needs a couple trillion in stimulus?

good lord, how can you sit there with a straight face and defend that none of the deficit is his fault?

obama lied, read my link again

The same reason I did't claim that it was Bush's fault that he gave out those rebate checks in 2001.

i don't care who is at fault for the economy tanking, that has zero to do with obama voting for the deficit, thus, obama lied.

did obama vote for a budget/spending that increased the deficit

yes

no

 

[jreeves]

Obama didn't vote for Bush's budget in 2006.

The title of this thread is "Did Obama Vote for the Debt He "Inherited"?

He inhereted $10.7 trillion. At most he voted for components of a small part of that total, and much of it to deal with a financial crisis. To suggest that therefore that Obama is somehow responsible for inhereting a Govt $10.7 trillion in debt is inane.

holy crap...so a budget was passed ONLY for the year 2006?
[/qutoe]

Why would you think that?



Is it his fault the economy is tanking and needs a couple trillion in stimulus?

good lord, how can you sit there with a straight face and defend that none of the deficit is his fault?

obama lied, read my link again

The same reason I did't claim that it was Bush's fault that he gave out those rebate checks in 2001.[/QUOTE
Think growing deficits improve economic growth...
AEI - Short Publications - Japan's Lost Decade
After 1993, the Japanese government pursued a series of fiscal stimulus packages that, by 1999, reached a cumulative total of over $1 trillion. The budget deficit approached 10 percent of GDP--the equivalent of a trillion-dollar deficit in the United States. Government debt has risen to 130 percent of GDP, the highest in the G7.

The additional spending was largely directed toward public works projects, shoring up a weak financial system, and subsidies to the weakest of Japan’s businesses, which, in retrospect, ought to have been allowed to fail. In short, Japan followed a decade of overinvestment in the private sector in the 1980s with a decade of overinvestment in the public sector in the 1990s. While the direct stimulus of government works projects and subsidies to weak businesses kept the economy from falling back into negative growth for a time, the weakness resumed once the direct stimulative effects of the spending packages wore off. This is hardly surprising in view of the fact that the large stimulus packages went to finance wasteful public works projects and simultaneously abetted the serious misallocation of resources by supporting weak industries rather than strong ones.

As soon as the Japanese economy began to recover, in the wake of powerful monetary and fiscal stimulus after the deflationary crisis of 1995, the Japanese government moved rapidly to raise the tax rate applied to consumption in Japan. This flirtation with fiscal orthodoxy (an attempt to reduce budget deficits by taxing household consumption in a deflationary environment) proved disastrous and threw the Japanese economy back into a sharp recession in 1997. Subsequently, private investment and consumption weakened, and another large program of fiscal stimulus was initiated in 1998 and again temporarily boosted the economy. But the recession resumed in 1999--resulting in yet another stimulus package. That stimulus package boosted the economy, once again temporarily, until Japan’s growth rate turned negative during the second half of 2000.

The most basic lesson about fiscal stimulus to be learned from the Japanese experience is to avoid wasteful government spending. Rather, it is better to reduce tax rates in order to encourage private demand as well as private work effort and investment. Japan’s wasteful demand stimulus created nothing but temporary relief from a chronically depressed economy resulting from underlying deflation and monetary policy that was too tight. The spending in support of public works projects, such as tunnels under Tokyo Bay and railroad lines to underpopulated parts of Japan, would never have been undertaken by the private sector. In effect, the Japanese government used Japan’s huge flow of trapped savings, pushed into government bonds by high levels of economic uncertainty and fear of investing abroad, to finance immensely wasteful expenditures. Had Japan instead reduced tax rates in 1992 to encourage investment and additional work effort, the economy would very likely have begun to recover, provided that the Bank of Japan did not keep monetary policy too tight. In fact, Japan’s only forays into tax policy raised consumption taxes in 1997 while increasing payroll taxes to finance health insurance programs. Both measures reinforced the deflationary pressures from tight monetary policy.

Japan’s tendency to use stimulative fiscal policy in conjunction with the Bank of Japan’s invariably tight monetary policy pushed up real interest rates and thereby caused the currency to strengthen, which reinforced the deflationary tendency already present. Curiously, the Japanese government was never able to recognize the dangers inherent in this deflationary policy mix. Furthermore, advice from the American Treasury Department reinforced this misguided policy.

 

[Iriemon]

holy crap...so a budget was passed ONLY for the year 2006?
[/qutoe]

Why would you think that?



Is it his fault the economy is tanking and needs a couple trillion in stimulus?



The same reason I did't claim that it was Bush's fault that he gave out those rebate checks in 2001.

i don't care who is at fault for the economy tanking, that has zero to do with obama voting for the deficit, thus, obama lied.

did obama vote for a budget/spending that increased the deficit

yes

no

It has everything to do with it. I'm pretty sure Obama would not be pushing plans that gave hundreds of billions to wall street firms because that's just what he wanted to do when he because president.

 

[Iriemon]

holy crap...so a budget was passed ONLY for the year 2006?
[/qutoe]

Why would you think that?



Is it his fault the economy is tanking and needs a couple trillion in stimulus?



The same reason I did't claim that it was Bush's fault that he gave out those rebate checks in 2001.[/QUOTE
Think growing deficits improve economic growth...
AEI - Short Publications - Japan's Lost Decade
After 1993, the Japanese government pursued a series of fiscal stimulus packages that, by 1999, reached a cumulative total of over $1 trillion. The budget deficit approached 10 percent of GDP--the equivalent of a trillion-dollar deficit in the United States. Government debt has risen to 130 percent of GDP, the highest in the G7.

The additional spending was largely directed toward public works projects, shoring up a weak financial system, and subsidies to the weakest of Japan’s businesses, which, in retrospect, ought to have been allowed to fail. In short, Japan followed a decade of overinvestment in the private sector in the 1980s with a decade of overinvestment in the public sector in the 1990s. While the direct stimulus of government works projects and subsidies to weak businesses kept the economy from falling back into negative growth for a time, the weakness resumed once the direct stimulative effects of the spending packages wore off. This is hardly surprising in view of the fact that the large stimulus packages went to finance wasteful public works projects and simultaneously abetted the serious misallocation of resources by supporting weak industries rather than strong ones.

As soon as the Japanese economy began to recover, in the wake of powerful monetary and fiscal stimulus after the deflationary crisis of 1995, the Japanese government moved rapidly to raise the tax rate applied to consumption in Japan. This flirtation with fiscal orthodoxy (an attempt to reduce budget deficits by taxing household consumption in a deflationary environment) proved disastrous and threw the Japanese economy back into a sharp recession in 1997. Subsequently, private investment and consumption weakened, and another large program of fiscal stimulus was initiated in 1998 and again temporarily boosted the economy. But the recession resumed in 1999--resulting in yet another stimulus package. That stimulus package boosted the economy, once again temporarily, until Japan’s growth rate turned negative during the second half of 2000.

The most basic lesson about fiscal stimulus to be learned from the Japanese experience is to avoid wasteful government spending. Rather, it is better to reduce tax rates in order to encourage private demand as well as private work effort and investment. Japan’s wasteful demand stimulus created nothing but temporary relief from a chronically depressed economy resulting from underlying deflation and monetary policy that was too tight. The spending in support of public works projects, such as tunnels under Tokyo Bay and railroad lines to underpopulated parts of Japan, would never have been undertaken by the private sector. In effect, the Japanese government used Japan’s huge flow of trapped savings, pushed into government bonds by high levels of economic uncertainty and fear of investing abroad, to finance immensely wasteful expenditures. Had Japan instead reduced tax rates in 1992 to encourage investment and additional work effort, the economy would very likely have begun to recover, provided that the Bank of Japan did not keep monetary policy too tight. In fact, Japan’s only forays into tax policy raised consumption taxes in 1997 while increasing payroll taxes to finance health insurance programs. Both measures reinforced the deflationary pressures from tight monetary policy.

Japan’s tendency to use stimulative fiscal policy in conjunction with the Bank of Japan’s invariably tight monetary policy pushed up real interest rates and thereby caused the currency to strengthen, which reinforced the deflationary tendency already present. Curiously, the Japanese government was never able to recognize the dangers inherent in this deflationary policy mix. Furthermore, advice from the American Treasury Department reinforced this misguided policy.

Thanks for the article. Obviously lots of folks would think that its conclusions are completely wrong.

 

[jreeves]

Thanks for the article. Obviously lots of folks would think that its conclusions are completely wrong.

How so?

 

[Yurt]

i don't care who is at fault for the economy tanking, that has zero to do with obama voting for the deficit, thus, obama lied.

did obama vote for a budget/spending that increased the deficit

yes

no

It has everything to do with it. I'm pretty sure Obama would not be pushing plans that gave hundreds of billions to wall street firms because that's just what he wanted to do when he because president.

answer the question, before obama became president
did obama vote for a budget/spending that increased the deficit

yes

no

 

[DiveCon]

It has everything to do with it. I'm pretty sure Obama would not be pushing plans that gave hundreds of billions to wall street firms because that's just what he wanted to do when he because president.

yet, he voted for it

 

[Iriemon]

How so?

Media Matters - Media cite Japan's "lost decade" to criticize Obama's economic stimulus plan, but economists disagree

 

[Iriemon]

It has everything to do with it. I'm pretty sure Obama would not be pushing plans that gave hundreds of billions to wall street firms because that's just what he wanted to do when he because president.

answer the question, before obama became president
did obama vote for a budget/spending that increased the deficit

yes

no

Yes.

So did McCain. Ergo, the deficit is McCain's fault. Right?

 

[DiveCon]

It has everything to do with it. I'm pretty sure Obama would not be pushing plans that gave hundreds of billions to wall street firms because that's just what he wanted to do when he because president.

answer the question, before obama became president
did obama vote for a budget/spending that increased the deficit

yes

no

Yes.

So did McCain. Ergo, the deficit is McCain's fault. Right?

this is what you dont fucking get
YES, ITS EVERY POLITICIANS FAULT THAT VOTED FOR IT

my god you are too fucking STUPID for words
you have been told this enough times already
if you dont want people to think you are a fucking moron, STOP ACTING LIKE ONE

 

[Yurt]

It has everything to do with it. I'm pretty sure Obama would not be pushing plans that gave hundreds of billions to wall street firms because that's just what he wanted to do when he because president.

answer the question, before obama became president
did obama vote for a budget/spending that increased the deficit

yes

no

Yes.

So did McCain. Ergo, the deficit is McCain's fault. Right?

he finally admits obama lied...

and then what do you do....

apparently i must tell you AGAIN that it doesn't matter a wit about mccan or any other republican, THEY HAVE NOT SAID THEY ARE NOT AT FAULT FOR THE DEFICIT, OBAMA SAID THE DEFICIT WAS NOT HIS FAULT YET HE VOTED TO INCREASE THE DEFICIT

i don't like using all caps like that, but you've been told this over half a dozen times....further, i've already told you i blame mccain....

seriously what is wrong with you?

 

[jreeves]

How so?

Media Matters - Media cite Japan's "lost decade" to criticize Obama's economic stimulus plan, but economists disagree

So you think huge deficits are ok?

 

[Iriemon]

answer the question, before obama became president
did obama vote for a budget/spending that increased the deficit

yes

no

Yes.

So did McCain. Ergo, the deficit is McCain's fault. Right?

he finally admits obama lied...

and then what do you do....

apparently i must tell you AGAIN that it doesn't matter a wit about mccan or any other republican, THEY HAVE NOT SAID THEY ARE NOT AT FAULT FOR THE DEFICIT, OBAMA SAID THE DEFICIT WAS NOT HIS FAULT YET HE VOTED TO INCREASE THE DEFICIT

i don't like using all caps like that, but you've been told this over half a dozen times....further, i've already told you i blame mccain....

seriously what is wrong with you?

IMO the $10.7 trillion debt he inhereted is not his fault. It was run up thanks mostly to the policies of Reagan Bush and Bush and now that we are faced with a potential economic catastrophe it's not Obama's "fault" that a massive stimulus is necessary.

You can try to point the finger at him in a lame attempt to pretend he's somehow to blame for this freaking mess all you want. I ain't buying.

Look me up 4 years from now and if the economy is back on its feet and Obama is still running big deficits, I will be first in line to blame and criticize him for it.

 

[Iriemon]

How so?

Media Matters - Media cite Japan's "lost decade" to criticize Obama's economic stimulus plan, but economists disagree

So you think huge deficits are ok?

Only in limited situations; eg a recession where temporary fiscal stimulus may be justified or where the nation's life depends on spending more than it can raise from taxes. Otherwise I don't think any deficits are OK.

 

[Yurt]

you're a lost cause...

obama voted to increase the deficit, but its not his fault...

your claim to fame earlier was that he didn't vote for bush's 2006 budget...but when you finally admit that yes he did vote in 2008 for deficit spending, that is somehow not his fault the deficit went up.

you're a walking contradiction that changes his tune the minute you get caught and realize your defense of obama has just been shot down. you're not honest at all.

 

[Iriemon]

you're a lost cause...

obama voted to increase the deficit, but its not his fault...

Sure. You're playing a simplistic cause and effect game. Sometimes we have to do things we'd prefer not to. It doesn't make it your fault. If a robber breaks into your house and is threatening your daughter and you have to kill him before he injuries her, is it you "fault" that he's dead?

your claim to fame earlier was that he didn't vote for bush's 2006 budget...but when you finally admit that yes he did vote in 2008 for deficit spending, that is somehow not his fault the deficit went up.

Because it was necessary to deal with a financial disaster. Just like it was necessary for you to shoot the robber.

you're a walking contradiction that changes his tune the minute you get caught and realize your defense of obama has just been shot down. you're not honest at all.

You're making an unfounded cause and effect claim to try to attribute fault to Obama for something that is not his fault at all.

 

[DiveCon]

Yes.

So did McCain. Ergo, the deficit is McCain's fault. Right?

he finally admits obama lied...

and then what do you do....

apparently i must tell you AGAIN that it doesn't matter a wit about mccan or any other republican, THEY HAVE NOT SAID THEY ARE NOT AT FAULT FOR THE DEFICIT, OBAMA SAID THE DEFICIT WAS NOT HIS FAULT YET HE VOTED TO INCREASE THE DEFICIT

i don't like using all caps like that, but you've been told this over half a dozen times....further, i've already told you i blame mccain....

seriously what is wrong with you?

IMO the $10.7 trillion debt he inhereted is not his fault. It was run up thanks mostly to the policies of Reagan Bush and Bush and now that we are faced with a potential economic catastrophe it's not Obama's "fault" that a massive stimulus is necessary.

You can try to point the finger at him in a lame attempt to pretend he's somehow to blame for this freaking mess all you want. I ain't buying.

Look me up 4 years from now and if the economy is back on its feet and Obama is still running big deficits, I will be first in line to blame and criticize him for it.

i notice how you excuse Clinton


you partisan hack

 

[jreeves]

Media Matters - Media cite Japan's "lost decade" to criticize Obama's economic stimulus plan, but economists disagree

So you think huge deficits are ok?

Only in limited situations; eg a recession where temporary fiscal stimulus may be justified or where the nation's life depends on spending more than it can raise from taxes. Otherwise I don't think any deficits are OK.

So its ok to run up deficits that will lead this country to deficits that will ultimately lead to the federal budget consisting of nothing more than; entitlement programs and paying interest on the national debt, as long as it is excused by the purpose of stimulating the economy.

Even before the baby boomer generation has begun to retire, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid constitute 42% of the federal budget, he said. In the next 30 years, the share of population that's older than 65 will hit 20%, from 13% currently, which commensurately inflates the cost of those programs. At the same time, inflation in health care costs far outstrips economic growth, meaning that Medicare and Medicaid in 40 years will be as big as the entire federal budget today.
National debt makes U.S. vulnerable, experts say - JSOnline
In less than 20 years, those three programs, plus interest payments on America's debt, will consume all the tax revenue the nation can expect by then, Bixby said.

That's before Obama's 2 trillion dollar expansion of the national debt.

 

[Yurt]

you're a lost cause...

obama voted to increase the deficit, but its not his fault...

Sure. You're playing a simplistic cause and effect game. Sometimes we have to do things we'd prefer not to. It doesn't make it your fault. If a robber breaks into your house and is threatening your daughter and you have to kill him before he injuries her, is it you "fault" that he's dead?

your claim to fame earlier was that he didn't vote for bush's 2006 budget...but when you finally admit that yes he did vote in 2008 for deficit spending, that is somehow not his fault the deficit went up.

Because it was necessary to deal with a financial disaster. Just like it was necessary for you to shoot the robber.

you're a walking contradiction that changes his tune the minute you get caught and realize your defense of obama has just been shot down. you're not honest at all.

You're making an unfounded cause and effect claim to try to attribute fault to Obama for something that is not his fault at all.

you're playing with a half deck and using false analogies

i told you he voted to increase the deficit more than once, he voted in 2007 for a budget that increased spending and the deficit...

i suppose that wasn't his fault either....because someone stuck a gun to his head...face it, you've been shown that obama voted to increase the deficit, he is responsible...thus obama lied

i can't wait to hear your excuses for the march 2007 vote...

 

[Iriemon]

you're a lost cause...

obama voted to increase the deficit, but its not his fault...

Sure. You're playing a simplistic cause and effect game. Sometimes we have to do things we'd prefer not to. It doesn't make it your fault. If a robber breaks into your house and is threatening your daughter and you have to kill him before he injuries her, is it you "fault" that he's dead?



Because it was necessary to deal with a financial disaster. Just like it was necessary for you to shoot the robber.

you're a walking contradiction that changes his tune the minute you get caught and realize your defense of obama has just been shot down. you're not honest at all.

You're making an unfounded cause and effect claim to try to attribute fault to Obama for something that is not his fault at all.

you're playing with a half deck and using false analogies

i told you he voted to increase the deficit more than once, he voted in 2007 for a budget that increased spending and the deficit...

i suppose that wasn't his fault either....because someone stuck a gun to his head...face it, you've been shown that obama voted to increase the deficit, he is responsible...thus obama lied

i can't wait to hear your excuses for the march 2007 vote...

Repetitive