Did Liberalism Cause Virginia Tech Shootings?

[red states rule]

Criminals (generally) don't even think about it (depending on the crime of course). I would wager that if you asked the average liquor store robber in a state in the US that he (usually it's a bloke I think) wouldn't have a clue if it was a CCW state or not.

I'm looking at CCW from the point of view of the person who choose to avail themselves of their lawful right to arm themselves. I don't think for one minute it's a general or a specific deterrent, I do know that equalling up is a good idea though.

It is correct to assume that getting away with the crime is the most important part of their paln

 

[Diuretic]

It is correct to assume that getting away with the crime is the most important part of their paln

Intutive isn't it? This is where it gets to the point where we have to cease thinking in general terms and start thinking specifically. You might lose interest in it so I won't get too precise right now.

A crook who plans a crime definitely factors in how to get away with it. They have to because unbeknowns to them they're actually working on a risk management plan. But a crook who commits a crime of impulse, or when intoxicated (drugs or booze), doesn't think about how they're going to get away. They don't even think they're going to get caught. For that crook getting the cash (usually it's cash) is at the centre of their thinking.

 

[red states rule]

Intutive isn't it? This is where it gets to the point where we have to cease thinking in general terms and start thinking specifically. You might lose interest in it so I won't get too precise right now.

A crook who plans a crime definitely factors in how to get away with it. They have to because unbeknowns to them they're actually working on a risk management plan. But a crook who commits a crime of impulse, or when intoxicated (drugs or booze), doesn't think about how they're going to get away. They don't even think they're going to get caught. For that crook getting the cash (usually it's cash) is at the centre of their thinking.

The biggest risk should be "Is the person I am going after armed?"

 

[Diuretic]

The biggest risk should be "Is the person I am going after armed?"

That's a normative statement and adds nothing to this discussion.

 

[red states rule]

That's a normative statement and adds nothing to this discussion.

It is logic and shows why people should have the right to carry a weapon to prevent crime and defend themselves

 

[Little-Acorn]

The biggest risk should be "Is the person I am going after armed?"

The biggest risk should be, "Is the person I'm going after, or any other people who are nearby, armed?"

This multiplies the risk for the criminal, tenfold or more. Even if the guy he's after, is armed, he can neutralize that by shooting or immobilizing the guy. But if there are dozens of others around who will hear the shots, or even hundreds as there were in Cho's case, the chances are pretty good that at least a few of them will be armed. The criminal has no way of knowing which one(s), nor can he possibly hope to neutralize them all.

Unless the state does it for him by forcing all law-abiding people to not bring their weapons to campus. That makes Cho's job MUCH easier... with the inevitable results we saw last week.

"Gun-control laws are the criminal's OSHA. They give him a safe working environment."

 

[myth]

It is called common sense

Do you think criminals will attempt to commit a crime if they suspect the victim is armed?

In the late 90's, I worked in corrections in North Carolina as a prison counselor for a couple of years. In speaking to the inmates, I discovered one tidbit concerning the above...they pretty much hope, if it comes down to it, and I'm speaking of violent criminals here...that they can get the bullet in you before you get one into them. Oh also, I fucking HATE pedophiles!!! They never change, and that's why I eventually moved on to another line of work. I felt all sleazy and dirty at the end of the day....but, I digress...

Before this job, I truly used to believe that having CCW (and I'm NOT opposed to that law...NC has it, not sure of Jersey)...would actually be a deterrant to SOME crimes...as in, "I'm armed, and I'm not afraid to use it!!." Now, I'm not so sure, but I still believe it's better than not carrying. Even though I am trained in weaponry, I'm still a tad bit fearful of them...that I will accidentally shoot myself. (lol) Anyway, that has been my experience.

 

[NuclearWinter]

In the late 90's, I worked in corrections in North Carolina as a prison counselor for a couple of years. In speaking to the inmates, I discovered one tidbit concerning the above...they pretty much hope, if it comes down to it, and I'm speaking of violent criminals here...that they can get the bullet in you before you get one into them. Oh also, I fucking HATE pedophiles!!! They never change, and that's why I eventually moved on to another line of work. I felt all sleazy and dirty at the end of the day....but, I digress...

Before this job, I truly used to believe that having CCW (and I'm NOT opposed to that law...NC has it, not sure of Jersey)...would actually be a deterrant to SOME crimes...as in, "I'm armed, and I'm not afraid to use it!!." Now, I'm not so sure, but I still believe it's better than not carrying. Even though I am trained in weaponry, I'm still a tad bit fearful of them...that I will accidentally shoot myself. (lol) Anyway, that has been my experience.

Gotta breath right before you get ready to fire. The breath controls your nerves in that situation. Breath slow and deep, no matter how nervous you are, and you won't shake nearly as much when you pull out your gun to fire.

 

[Superlative]

Gotta breath right before you get ready to fire. The breath controls your nerves in that situation. Breath slow and deep, no matter how nervous you are, and you won't shake nearly as much when you pull out your gun to fire.

Speaking from absolutely no experience other than video games,

Do you think that in a real life and death situation the majority of people would be able to calmly fire a gun to neutralize a person?

Just a question.

 

[hjmick]

Nerves and fear, these are the reasons a shotgun is the best weapon for home protection.

 

[Superlative]

Nerves and fear, these are the reasons a shotgun is the best weapon for home protection.

I think id rather a wheel barrow mounted gatlin gun.

And land mines.

But I play too many video games for this thread.

No disrespect.

 

[myth]

Speaking from absolutely no experience other than video games,

Do you think that in a real life and death situation the majority of people would be able to calmly fire a gun to neutralize a person?

Just a question.

I've often wondered if it came down to me or another person (we do have that inate desire to survive)...if I could actually take another person's life, and be able to live with myself. I would hope that I could maybe just close my eyes and pull the trigger, and worry about the emotions later. That's what boggles my mind about these kookie people who kill a spouse or other fellow students...what could possibly be going through their mind when they wake up one day and decide that this is a good day to kill? I feel really bad when I run over an animal when driving!!

 

[NuclearWinter]

Speaking from absolutely no experience other than video games,

Do you think that in a real life and death situation the majority of people would be able to calmly fire a gun to neutralize a person?

Just a question.

I believe that if the majority of people breath correctly in a panick situation that they will be calm enough to point, aim, and fire their weapons with accuracy from close range or even semi-distant. Yes I do.

 

[NuclearWinter]

I've often wondered if it came down to me or another person (we do have that inate desire to survive)...if I could actually take another person's life, and be able to live with myself. I would hope that I could maybe just close my eyes and pull the trigger, and worry about the emotions later. That's what boggles my mind about these kookie people who kill a spouse or other fellow students...what could possibly be going through their mind when they wake up one day and decide that this is a good day to kill? I feel really bad when I run over an animal when driving!!

Animals don't have this problem of questioning whether it's ok to defend yourself or not. Human Beings seem to be the only creatures on Earth who don't realize that in a situation where someone or something is going to try and take the very Life from your body, that it's a DO or DIE situation.

 

[Gunny]

I believe that if the majority of people breath correctly in a panick situation that they will be calm enough to point, aim, and fire their weapons with accuracy from close range or even semi-distant. Yes I do.

One of the symptoms of panic is not being able to breathe correctly.

 

[Gunny]

Animals don't have this problem of questioning whether it's ok to defend yourself or not. Human Beings seem to be the only creatures on Earth who don't realize that in a situation where someone or something is going to try and take the very Life from your body, that it's a DO or DIE situation.

Human beings posess the ability to reason, animals do not.

 

[NuclearWinter]

Human beings posess the ability to reason, animals do not.

And how much reasoning would be involved for you Gunnyl when somebody decided they wanted to kill you and had already made their mind up about it? And what about in the event that they were pointing a gun at you with their finger pulling back the trigger...or running at you with a knife...?

How much reasoning is involved in a process like that? Me thinks it is the animal instinct of Human Beings that's what REALLY takes over in a situation like that.

 

[NuclearWinter]

One of the symptoms of panic is not being able to breathe correctly.

Exactly.

Mind over matter folks.

There is almost NOTHING in Life that can stop you from breathing long and deeply in any situation. Unless of course you're already dead.

I believe that the Breath is the Sign of God within every single one of us. When the Breath goes, your Life goes with it.

So....learn how to control it. It's yours to control.

 

[myth]

Exactly.

Mind over matter folks.

There is almost NOTHING in Life that can stop you from breathing long and deeply in any situation. Unless of course you're already dead.

I believe that the Breath is the Sign of God within every single one of us. When the Breath goes, your Life goes with it.

So....learn how to control it. It's yours to control.

I've experienced times when I was too afraid to breathe...for whatever reason. I consider breath to be a gift from God...but so is the ability to run like hell, if possible, when someone has a gun in your face...or do some fancy tap dancing and talk your way out of it...that would probably be my way. But, when a person has already decided to kill...they normally carry that plan out, even if it means either killing oneself afterwards, or being killed by the police. Thanks to spikes...I had a gun held on me once...honestly, I think the panic that set in (coupled with my ability to remain calm under tremendous pressure...yeah, I'm the one you want in a crisis)...KEPT me alive. I don't remember breathing deeply...I usually wait until after the crisis has been averted to do that. It's kind of hard to think of breathing when one is looking down the barrell of a loaded gun!!

 

[Diuretic]

And how much reasoning would be involved for you Gunnyl when somebody decided they wanted to kill you and had already made their mind up about it? And what about in the event that they were pointing a gun at you with their finger pulling back the trigger...or running at you with a knife...?

How much reasoning is involved in a process like that? Me thinks it is the animal instinct of Human Beings that's what REALLY takes over in a situation like that.

No it isn't, it's training. The animal instinct is to flee. The average human, not possessed of the requisite training, is going to panic, gun or not.