Despising the New Deal & hating FDR while your immediate family benefited...

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Like Jefferson, you live in a dream world were agrarianism is some kind of mythical utopia -- it's not and it never was.

The federal government has a duty to only protect liberty?

And this thread has nothing to do with liberty.

We fought your ideas long ago. With Jefferson/Madison and Marshall and with the traitorous insurrection commonly know as the Confederate rebellion.

Well I don't know about agrarianism being a mythical utopia, but it's basic economics to know that as prices go down demand goes up. So if the price of corn goes down more people are going to buy it.

Maybe in your mind it has nothing to do with liberty. But I bet the people who lived through the Depression wish their government hadn't forced them to suffer on behalf of farmers.

Yes, the battle between liberty and statism has been going on a long time.

Basic economic principles have failed us time and time again. Most economic models are a step above voodoo. Use them, sure, but believe they hold the key? crazy.


take things out of context all you want. you always need to in order to validate flawed premises.

The government forced people to suffer on behalf of farmers? Wow! those farmers must have had a strong lobby, lots of money and millions of votes.

Government intervention in the market has failed us time and again.

So you deny that the government paid farmers to destroy crops and slaughter animals rather than sell them to the public?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If government in any way limits my options then it is not a real option, if I can only have five troy ounces and the rest has to be replaced, it kills the argument that it is choice, it goes against what liberty is.

jesus, you're a dolt.

No, he's right.

Initially created as the Resettlement Administration (RA) in 1935 as part of the New Deal in the United States, the Farm Security Administration (FSA) was an effort during the Depression to combat American rural poverty.


The FSA stressed "rural rehabilitation" efforts to improve the lifestyle of sharecroppers, tenants, and very poor landowning farmers, and a program to purchase submarginal land owned by poor farmers and resettle them in group farms on land more suitable for efficient farming.



Critics, including the Farm Bureau strongly opposed the FSA as an experiment in collectivizing agriculture — that is, in bringing farmers together to work on large government-owned farms using modern techniques under the supervision of experts.



The program failed because the farmers wanted ownership; after the Conservative coalition took control of Congress it transformed the FSA into a program to help poor farmers buy land, and continues in operation in the 21st century as the Farmers Home Administration.
Farm Security Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

---

nothing is ever as simple as you pretend to make it appear.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Conservative Mantra: "Let them eat shit, if they can afford it."


Farm and rural programs


Pumping water by hand from sole water supply in this section of Wilder, Tennessee (Tennessee Valley Authority, 1942)



WPA employed 2 to 3 million unemployed at unskilled labor.


Many rural people lived in severe poverty, especially in the South.


New Deal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Well I don't know about agrarianism being a mythical utopia, but it's basic economics to know that as prices go down demand goes up. So if the price of corn goes down more people are going to buy it.

Maybe in your mind it has nothing to do with liberty. But I bet the people who lived through the Depression wish their government hadn't forced them to suffer on behalf of farmers.

Yes, the battle between liberty and statism has been going on a long time.

Basic economic principles have failed us time and time again. Most economic models are a step above voodoo. Use them, sure, but believe they hold the key? crazy.


take things out of context all you want. you always need to in order to validate flawed premises.

The government forced people to suffer on behalf of farmers? Wow! those farmers must have had a strong lobby, lots of money and millions of votes.

Government intervention in the market has failed us time and again.

So you deny that the government paid farmers to destroy crops and slaughter animals rather than sell them to the public?

An unregulated market was never envisioned by the likes of Smith or any other sane person when this market bull crap started to rear it's ugly head.

Our government intervenes to save the system because market forces have almost always thrown into chaos.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

So you deny that the government paid farmers to destroy crops and slaughter animals rather than sell them to the public?

If you want to debate that part of a policy we can, but taking things out of context will not get an argument from me. It will bore me.

 

[Oddball]

There's nothing taken out of context....FDR's ag policy included destroying crops and livestock as a means of engineering prices.

True historical fact.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

There's nothing taken out of context....FDR's ag policy included destroying crops and livestock as a means of engineering prices.

True historical fact.

Using facts out of context is useless to an honest and rational discussion.

I have always been willing to admit truths like FDR tried to stack the courts and the Democrats along with others shut him down. But why was FDR trying to stack the courts and why did the Democrats join FDR's Republican opponents?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Basic economic principles have failed us time and time again. Most economic models are a step above voodoo. Use them, sure, but believe they hold the key? crazy.


take things out of context all you want. you always need to in order to validate flawed premises.

The government forced people to suffer on behalf of farmers? Wow! those farmers must have had a strong lobby, lots of money and millions of votes.

Government intervention in the market has failed us time and again.

So you deny that the government paid farmers to destroy crops and slaughter animals rather than sell them to the public?

An unregulated market was never envisioned by the likes of Smith or any other sane person when this market bull crap started to rear it's ugly head.

Our government intervenes to save the system because market forces have almost always thrown into chaos.

Bastiat, Menger, Mises, Hayek, etc...

"Chaos" can always be traced back to some government intervention.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

So you deny that the government paid farmers to destroy crops and slaughter animals rather than sell them to the public?

If you want to debate that part of a policy we can, but taking things out of context will not get an argument from me. It will bore me.

Saying what happened isn't taking out of context.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

So you deny that the government paid farmers to destroy crops and slaughter animals rather than sell them to the public?

If you want to debate that part of a policy we can, but taking things out of context will not get an argument from me. It will bore me.

Saying what happened isn't taking out of context.

of course it is.

Date: circa 1568
1 : the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning
2 : the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs : environment, setting <the historical context of the war>
— con·text·less \-&#716;tekst-l&#601;s\ adjective
— con·tex·tu·al \kän-&#712;teks-ch&#601;-w&#601;l, k&#601;n-, -ch&#601;l, -chü-&#601;l\ adjective
— con·tex·tu·al·ly adverb

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Government intervention in the market has failed us time and again.

So you deny that the government paid farmers to destroy crops and slaughter animals rather than sell them to the public?

An unregulated market was never envisioned by the likes of Smith or any other sane person when this market bull crap started to rear it's ugly head.

Our government intervenes to save the system because market forces have almost always thrown into chaos.

Bastiat, Menger, Mises, Hayek, etc...

"Chaos" can always be traced back to some government intervention.

Knowing how much you enjoy going in circles: Most all government interventions can be traced back to market forces chaos.

 

[Oddball]

Most modern market chaos can be traced to do-gooder politicians and bureaucrats, who act as though they're doing the whole world a big fat favor in their meddling.

 

[Oddball]

There's nothing taken out of context....FDR's ag policy included destroying crops and livestock as a means of engineering prices.

True historical fact.

Using facts out of context is useless to an honest and rational discussion.

I have always been willing to admit truths like FDR tried to stack the courts and the Democrats along with others shut him down. But why was FDR trying to stack the courts and why did the Democrats join FDR's Republican opponents?

Because FDR was trying to do an end-around around constitutional constraints on the executive and, quite unlike today, at least a few democrats had some semblance of a conscience.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Most modern market chaos can be traced to do-gooder politicians and bureaucrats, who act as though they're doing the whole world a big fat favor in their meddling.

there may be some truth to that argument, but it avoids the whole issue of the idiot notion that the market regulates itself.


&#8220;I have found a flaw. I don&#8217;t know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact.&#8221;





oops!

here comes that bus...
1..
2,,,

3...

 

[uscitizen]

Despising the New Deal & hating FDR while your immediate family benefited...


What does one make of people who despise the policies of the New Deal & hate FDR while their immediate family benefited from either or both?

The disconnect suggest being an ingrate or worse, but is it more complicated? Is the disconnect caused by the phenomena of people going with a group identity over self interest? Does belonging to a group override common sense and factual data? Does the need to belong distort principles and the ability to absorb information and data that threatens group thinking?

I am sure that all those who are against the social programs will decline SS and Medicare when they become eligible.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Despising the New Deal & hating FDR while your immediate family benefited...


What does one make of people who despise the policies of the New Deal & hate FDR while their immediate family benefited from either or both?

The disconnect suggest being an ingrate or worse, but is it more complicated? Is the disconnect caused by the phenomena of people going with a group identity over self interest? Does belonging to a group override common sense and factual data? Does the need to belong distort principles and the ability to absorb information and data that threatens group thinking?

I am sure that all those who are against the social programs will decline SS and Medicare when they become eligible.

naw, they all need it.

most of them will have lost everything in the market when the time comes to collect

 

[Oddball]

I am sure that all those who are against the social programs will decline SS and Medicare when they become eligible.

Red herring, as none of us have had any choice as to whether or not we'd "contribute" to those scams.

Of course, if the Fabian socialist left had their way, we'd have no choice whatsoever as to how we got our pensions and health services delivered to us.

 

[Oddball]

Most modern market chaos can be traced to do-gooder politicians and bureaucrats, who act as though they're doing the whole world a big fat favor in their meddling.

there may be some truth to that argument, but it avoids the whole issue of the idiot notion that the market regulates itself.


&#8220;I have found a flaw. I don&#8217;t know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact.&#8221;





oops!

here comes that bus...
1..
2,,,

3...

Markets do regulate themselves....Just not in the way you define "regulated".

And the prattlings of Greenspan on free markets and phony mea culpas are irrelevant, given that he was the chairman of the greatest fiat money monopoly the world has ever known.

 

[uscitizen]

Markets do regulate themselves, generally at great pain of the population.

btw I was against TARP.

 

[Oddball]

Life's tough...Shit happens...Wear a helmet.