Democrats will go it alone on healthcare

[DiveCon]

The president is not responsible for unemployment. The big insurance/investment companies are.......and the hedge funds. Get real. The grifters of Wall St.


Nowhere are healthcare decisions ceded to the government. This a lie/Republican Talking Fib.

Yet Obama promised this...
View attachment 7960

His stimulus bill has driven unemployment up...
Qualified benefits plans is foregoing health care decisions to the federal government. A czar will decide what coverage is acceptable, what plans and insurers are "qualified". Would you like a link to the house bill with actual readings?

That's what minimum coverage is acceptable.......don't be coy.

And Obama's stimulus is starting to show results. He's not a freaking magician. I don't know why you call it Obama's stimulus. It didn't drive unemployment up. The money grubbers aren't lending like they should be. You're mad at the wrong people.

Obama made the claim and its falling short
they should have taken the time to READ THE DAMNED BILL before voting on it
ANY BILL
and if they cant understand what the bill means then maybe they need to write it in a more understandable language

 

[jreeves]

1000 pages is not that much. And I think it will be a lot more simple and encourage innovation on the technological aspects because of the database and comparative effectiveness rating system proposed. The potential uses for the database are incredible.

I don't think there will be a shortage of providers at all. Nothing has shown this to be the case.

Over a 1000 pages not that much... That's the reason a ton of Congress still haven't read the bill yet...

Databases don't uncover new treatments and drugs used to treat diseases are you serious? The free market system encourages innovation and new discoveries in medicine. Which is why in the past 20 years the US has more Nobel Prize winners than the entire world combined.

As far as provider shortages......
http://www.hlc.org/NI_062609.pdf
Healthcare that the government runs, like the proposed “public option,” forces hurting, dying
people into long waits for the care they need so desperately.
• Dr. Gratzer writes, “. . . Canadians wait for practically any procedure or diagnostic test or
specialist consultation in the public system.”
• At every stage, Canadian patients experience long waiting lists. Those waits combine to
lengthen patients’ pain and suffering.
• Waits delay diagnosis, treatment and healing. Waits can cause death from treatable, curable
ailments that most Americans today survive.
• Just half of Canadian emergency room patients get timely treatment. Some Canadian towns raffle doctor’s appointments in lotteries

I don't want to hear any bullshit about waiting times anywhere else. (told ya, dive con LOL)

I diagnosed myself with diabetes back in march. Won't get into the crap it took for me to get into a doc (I had to dump the one I've been seeing since he opened his practice because he wouldn't see me until July). I was having visual changes and other symptoms, and no way in hell was I going to wait that long. So the new doc finds out my one and only kidney isn't quite up to par (it worked just fine up until the diabetes, apparently). HE consults a nephrologist group here in town. They called YESTERDAY with a set appointment (after failing twice to "work me in"). It's for freaking MID OCTOBER.

God, don't get me started.

Wow, that's some shit.


Outaouais ER wait times 20 hours, 42 minutes and counting
Got an urgent medical problem? If you visit an emergency room in western Quebec's Outaouais region, prepare to wait an average of 20 hours and 42 minutes before being discharged or admitted to another ward in the hospital.

According to data compiled by the Le Comité de coordination national des urgences (CCNU), which works with emergency wards across the province, the average wait time in the Outaouais is four hours above the provincial average and two hours longer than last year. In addition, the data does not include the time spent waiting before seeing a doctor.

The data was published Wednesday in the GESCA newspaper chain, as part of its third annual rankings of Quebec hospitals.

The longest wait times in the region were at the Gatineau campus of the Gatineau hospital, where the average wait time was 25 hours.

Guy Morisette, head of the Outaouais health agency, told CBC News that the hospital has worked hard to fix the situation, but recruiting and retaining enough staff remains a problem, and additional solutions such as training personnel and developing new programs are longer-term efforts.

"It takes time before you see results," he said, adding that he expects to see things change gradually. "What I would say is I'm sure that the situation is going to improve within months."

 

[veritas]

Yet Obama promised this...
View attachment 7960

His stimulus bill has driven unemployment up...
Qualified benefits plans is foregoing health care decisions to the federal government. A czar will decide what coverage is acceptable, what plans and insurers are "qualified". Would you like a link to the house bill with actual readings?

That's what minimum coverage is acceptable.......don't be coy.

And Obama's stimulus is starting to show results. He's not a freaking magician. I don't know why you call it Obama's stimulus. It didn't drive unemployment up. The money grubbers aren't lending like they should be. You're mad at the wrong people.

Would you like the terminology I can quote the bill. It's not minimum coverage, it sets up a czar to control what is acceptable for a health benefits plan to be a qualified benefits plan.

Yes close to 10% unemployment is success, when he promised it wouldn't go above 8% if the stimulus was passed. Again why spend nearly a trillion dollars if doesn't succeed in its purpose?

Yes it's minimum acceptable coverage. I have read it and can actually understand it. Apparently you cannot. [big surprise there, NOT]. By definition it would have to have a minimum if there is a qualification formula......DUH!!! Critical thinking is not in your bag of tricks. Xmas is only 4 months or so away, ask Santa for some.

I don't remember any promises. I remember projected targets. Economics is not a hard science you know, it's about half voodoo and one quarter psychology. Have you ever studied it?

 

[Emma]

Over a 1000 pages not that much... That's the reason a ton of Congress still haven't read the bill yet...

Databases don't uncover new treatments and drugs used to treat diseases are you serious? The free market system encourages innovation and new discoveries in medicine. Which is why in the past 20 years the US has more Nobel Prize winners than the entire world combined.

As far as provider shortages......
http://www.hlc.org/NI_062609.pdf
Healthcare that the government runs, like the proposed “public option,” forces hurting, dying
people into long waits for the care they need so desperately.
• Dr. Gratzer writes, “. . . Canadians wait for practically any procedure or diagnostic test or
specialist consultation in the public system.”
• At every stage, Canadian patients experience long waiting lists. Those waits combine to
lengthen patients’ pain and suffering.
• Waits delay diagnosis, treatment and healing. Waits can cause death from treatable, curable
ailments that most Americans today survive.
• Just half of Canadian emergency room patients get timely treatment. Some Canadian towns raffle doctor’s appointments in lotteries

I don't want to hear any bullshit about waiting times anywhere else. (told ya, dive con LOL)

I diagnosed myself with diabetes back in march. Won't get into the crap it took for me to get into a doc (I had to dump the one I've been seeing since he opened his practice because he wouldn't see me until July). I was having visual changes and other symptoms, and no way in hell was I going to wait that long. So the new doc finds out my one and only kidney isn't quite up to par (it worked just fine up until the diabetes, apparently). HE consults a nephrologist group here in town. They called YESTERDAY with a set appointment (after failing twice to "work me in"). It's for freaking MID OCTOBER.

God, don't get me started.

Wow, that's some shit.
View attachment 7961

Outaouais ER wait times 20 hours, 42 minutes and counting
Got an urgent medical problem? If you visit an emergency room in western Quebec's Outaouais region, prepare to wait an average of 20 hours and 42 minutes before being discharged or admitted to another ward in the hospital.

According to data compiled by the Le Comité de coordination national des urgences (CCNU), which works with emergency wards across the province, the average wait time in the Outaouais is four hours above the provincial average and two hours longer than last year. In addition, the data does not include the time spent waiting before seeing a doctor.

The data was published Wednesday in the GESCA newspaper chain, as part of its third annual rankings of Quebec hospitals.

The longest wait times in the region were at the Gatineau campus of the Gatineau hospital, where the average wait time was 25 hours.

Guy Morisette, head of the Outaouais health agency, told CBC News that the hospital has worked hard to fix the situation, but recruiting and retaining enough staff remains a problem, and additional solutions such as training personnel and developing new programs are longer-term efforts.

"It takes time before you see results," he said, adding that he expects to see things change gradually. "What I would say is I'm sure that the situation is going to improve within months."

I'm not bullshitting you here. Those wait times in the ED are nothing. When I worked in NoVA, I saw the same thing. Our unit never had an open bed, ever. No matter what time, day or night, a patient was discharged... the bed was stat cleaned and they moved someone in from the ED. And most of the time, they'd been down there forever. That particular hospital is among the worst I've seen in that regard; it wasn't uncommon for our admissions to have been held in the ED for days awaiting an open bed.

This isn't a Canada problem. Long ED waits are the norm. At least in every hospital I've worked. (and of course we catch hell from the patients and families when they finally get to the floor) They've been doing somewhat better lately; the census has been down and I'd say the average wait is 8-12 hours. Most of our docs are 'direct admitting' now to avoid that altogether.

Heck, I went to the ED during a travel assignment with a strangulated/incarcerated bowel (quite the emergency lol) and had to wait for hours just to be seen by a doc. They soon figured out how bad it was and whisked me off to surgery; by then I'd already developed peritonitis.

My Dad was practically crippled with his hip, could barely walk. Took him nearly a year; first to get in with an orthopedic surgeon and then over 6 months to wait for a surgery slot to open up.

Like I said, don't get me started

 

[veritas]

I always tell people if they are sick to go to Baltimore. Baltimore has the best hospitals in the world and there are scads of them. GBMC is incredible.

Stay away from Suburban in Bethesda........yikes!!!!! Right near NIH and Naval Medical but they suck, bigtime.

 

[Political Junky]

I don't think it was Bush's fault per se, although his "lower taxes until the rich people aren't paying any" didn't produce the trickle down like he promised did it? Instead, paper got pushed around and no new jobs emerged. That's a failed experiment. Then he did it again. That's just not logical. Then he spent us into a hole.

only one problem with that
the rich are paying more of the taxes than they have ever paid before
what is it, the top 5% of taxpayers pay like 90% of the taxes?
i forget what it is if thats not correct, but its damn close

No, at one time the very top income people paid 91% of their income. Cons have constantly cut their tax rate.

http://www.yalelawjournal.org/111/6/1391_reuven_s_avi-yonah.html
Rand wrote in a world in which the top marginal federal income tax rate in the United States was 91% (beginning at taxable income of $400,000). This is an unimaginably high rate by today's standards, when the dominant view in Washington is that a marginal rate of 39.6% (the top rate from 1993 to 2001) is too high. The key turning point in the process of abandoning high marginal tax rates occurred in the presidency of Ronald Reagan. When Reagan became President in 1981, the top marginal federal income tax rate was 70%; when he left office in 1989, the top rate was 28%.

 

[KittenKoder]

I always tell people if they are sick to go to Baltimore. Baltimore has the best hospitals in the world and there are scads of them. GBMC is incredible.

Stay away from Suburban in Bethesda........yikes!!!!! Right near NIH and Naval Medical but they suck, bigtime.

Depends on what "sick" you have. Here in Washington (western half, not sure about eastern half) we have the best heart trauma center in the US, or something like that, not sure it was the heart but it was a specific trauma.

 

[Emma]

I always tell people if they are sick to go to Baltimore. Baltimore has the best hospitals in the world and there are scads of them. GBMC is incredible.

Stay away from Suburban in Bethesda........yikes!!!!! Right near NIH and Naval Medical but they suck, bigtime.

What sucked for me (aside from the damn security checks) was the drive. I didn't live that far away (can't think right now... was about 8-10 miles), but if I didn't get out of work by a certain time, it could take up to 2 hours to get home. Ridiculous.

 

[veritas]

I always tell people if they are sick to go to Baltimore. Baltimore has the best hospitals in the world and there are scads of them. GBMC is incredible.

Stay away from Suburban in Bethesda........yikes!!!!! Right near NIH and Naval Medical but they suck, bigtime.

Depends on what "sick" you have. Here in Washington (western half, not sure about eastern half) we have the best heart trauma center in the US, or something like that, not sure it was the heart but it was a specific trauma.

Baltimore has Johns Hopkins [getting to be a small city within the city], St Joseph's, Shepard Pratt, Union Memorial, Mercy, Sinai, GBMC, University of Maryland and bunches more and they are all sort of hooked up. Any kind of sick or weird sick or injured, Baltimore leads. Then there are more all glommed around in the burbs to west.

 

[KittenKoder]

I always tell people if they are sick to go to Baltimore. Baltimore has the best hospitals in the world and there are scads of them. GBMC is incredible.

Stay away from Suburban in Bethesda........yikes!!!!! Right near NIH and Naval Medical but they suck, bigtime.

Depends on what "sick" you have. Here in Washington (western half, not sure about eastern half) we have the best heart trauma center in the US, or something like that, not sure it was the heart but it was a specific trauma.

Baltimore has Johns Hopkins [getting to be a small city within the city], St Joseph's, Shepard Pratt, Union Memorial, Mercy, Sinai, GBMC, University of Maryland and bunches more and they are all sort of hooked up. Any kind of sick or weird sick or injured, Baltimore leads. Then there are more all glommed around in the burbs to west.

Everyone has their favorites, I was just repeating what the AMA stated ... sort of, as I said, I wasn't paying that close attention so I can't remember exactly which it was but I'm pretty sure it was heart trauma, our hospitals here are suppose to be the best for treating heart attacks out of the US.

 

[Emma]

I always tell people if they are sick to go to Baltimore. Baltimore has the best hospitals in the world and there are scads of them. GBMC is incredible.

Stay away from Suburban in Bethesda........yikes!!!!! Right near NIH and Naval Medical but they suck, bigtime.

Depends on what "sick" you have. Here in Washington (western half, not sure about eastern half) we have the best heart trauma center in the US, or something like that, not sure it was the heart but it was a specific trauma.

Baltimore has Johns Hopkins [getting to be a small city within the city], St Joseph's, Shepard Pratt, Union Memorial, Mercy, Sinai, GBMC, University of Maryland and bunches more and they are all sort of hooked up. Any kind of sick or weird sick or injured, Baltimore leads. Then there are more all glommed around in the burbs to west.

Speaking of Johns Hopkins (and I have no idea why this popped into my brain lol), have you ever seen "Something the Lord Made" (about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivien_Thomas )

Mos Def? OMG. He was amazing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Something_the_Lord_Made

 

[Annie]

So far, minimum coverage will be established to exclude pre-existing conditions and mandatory coverage for pregnancy, among other normal medical likelihoods.
So I guess you won't be able to get high deductible limited to catastrophic type insurance. But you can't get kicked off if you get sick either. This extends to private insureds as well. Which is why the Republicans are fighting it. So you have the public offering and the insurance companies can compete. This is likely to bring the cost of all insurance down. With the public option there is no restriction on providers. You pick your own. Personally public hospitals and teaching hospitals give the best care from my experience. That doesn't mean you have to use them, but you have that option. Private insurance limits participation. Medicare has no restrictions. The VA does, but they are a closed system, their providers are government employees.

You would have a much wider pool of private insurers from which to choose because of the proposed insurance exchange. You could examine costs and benefits in a checklist format and any questions you might have, the exchange would be available to explain it to you. As it So you have the public offering and the insurance companies can compete.is now, comparison shopping for insurance requires a Philadelphia lawyer. The public option would be available to you as well. But all in the same language, all the companies and the providers have to adhere to the same terms, there isn't going to be any fancy footwork with contract or medical terms of art. This will streamline care, payment and record keeping. Instead of filling out endless forms, your Medical ID card will be swiped and you are ready to get treated and your history is there for whomever is seeing you. So if you are unconscious, your allergies and illnesses and medications are all listed. Or if you're just forgetful, or you have a concussion, or you went off your schizo drugs.......

So you have the public offering and the insurance companies can compete.Lmao...

Have you heard the term qualified health benefits and the restrictions in care that the House Bill contains?

So you have the public offering and the insurance companies can compete.

That's why the bill is over 1000 pages and this is how you would get your coverage...
View attachment 7959

but I'm sure it will be a lot more simple...

Not to mention health care provider shortages and an erosion of medical technology that this bill will cause.

1000 pages is not that much. And I think it will be a lot more simple and encourage innovation on the technological aspects because of the database and comparative effectiveness rating system proposed. The potential uses for the database are incredible.Certainly are, just look at the Axelrod emails.

I don't think there will be a shortage of providers at all. Nothing has shown this to be the case. Of course this might be true or not, since it's not been done.

I'm wondering if you've ever heard of 'unintended consequences?' Not noticed until the damage is done, no matter how easily recognized in retrospect.

 

[Emma]

I'm wondering if you've ever heard of 'unintended consequences?' Not noticed until the damage is done, no matter how easily recognized in retrospect.

Are you suggesting we just do nothing?

 

[veritas]

I think the consequences might be intended........

 

[Annie]

I'm wondering if you've ever heard of 'unintended consequences?' Not noticed until the damage is done, no matter how easily recognized in retrospect.

Are you suggesting we just do nothing?

I've responded to that numerous times. H3400 pretty much sums up my opinion.

 

[KittenKoder]

I'm wondering if you've ever heard of 'unintended consequences?' Not noticed until the damage is done, no matter how easily recognized in retrospect.

Are you suggesting we just do nothing?

Sometimes ... doing nothing is the best solution to a problem ... in this case, it would be better than doing the wrong thing just because of being hasty.

 

[veritas]

So you have the public offering and the insurance companies can compete.Lmao...

Have you heard the term qualified health benefits and the restrictions in care that the House Bill contains?

So you have the public offering and the insurance companies can compete.

That's why the bill is over 1000 pages and this is how you would get your coverage...
View attachment 7959

but I'm sure it will be a lot more simple...

Not to mention health care provider shortages and an erosion of medical technology that this bill will cause.

1000 pages is not that much. And I think it will be a lot more simple and encourage innovation on the technological aspects because of the database and comparative effectiveness rating system proposed. The potential uses for the database are incredible.Certainly are, just look at the Axelrod emails.

I don't think there will be a shortage of providers at all. Nothing has shown this to be the case. Of course this might be true or not, since it's not been done.

I'm wondering if you've ever heard of 'unintended consequences?' Not noticed until the damage is done, no matter how easily recognized in retrospect.

I think you just perpetrated prohibited post altering. That's a no-no according to a bumped thread on the front porch yanno............

 

[Annie]

1000 pages is not that much. And I think it will be a lot more simple and encourage innovation on the technological aspects because of the database and comparative effectiveness rating system proposed. The potential uses for the database are incredible.Certainly are, just look at the Axelrod emails.

I don't think there will be a shortage of providers at all. Nothing has shown this to be the case. Of course this might be true or not, since it's not been done.

I'm wondering if you've ever heard of 'unintended consequences?' Not noticed until the damage is done, no matter how easily recognized in retrospect.

I think you just perpetrated prohibited post altering. That's a no-no according to a bumped thread on the front porch yanno............

Hardly, it's clear what is 'mine'nothing of the other's words were altered. BTW, great diversion and non-response.

 

[veritas]

I already answered your blather. I still don't agree with your format, red or not, looks like you edited me like a school teacher with my name on the paper.

Get out of my quote boxes.

 

[Annie]

I already answered your blather. I still don't agree with your format, red or not, looks like you edited me like a school teacher with my name on the paper.

Get out of my quote boxes.

Make me!

Oh and you didn't answer anything.